Is it actually worth going the megajolt route?

[sarkie83]

So since the fitting of the bike carbs on my Capri, the next task seems to be getting the ignition sorted out... I’ve left the dizzy vac disconnected for the moment, but there seem to be two routes:

Megajolt
Non vac dizzy (Aldon,etc...)

Now I know at lot of people are going to say the megajolt route gives more scope for tuning. However, without getting it properly setup/rolling roaded, is there much point loading a map off the net and expecting it to just work well? The main point that attracted me is getting rid of mechanical moving parts, and not having to use hit and missing rotor arms and dizzy caps.

My sensible head however says: get a non vac dizzy, fit the Petronix electronic ignition I’ve already got inside, remove the ballast resistor and put a non ballast coil on to get a better spark.

(Engine in question will be std/mild pinto. If I do put a different cam in it, it will prob be high torque/caravan cam, but I’m contemplating leaving standard)

Thoughts?

Pics of it from the other day :-D

[comfortablynumb]

We’re putting a cosworth v6 in a capri, and we've bought a microsquirt kit to run it so as to not have a load of wiring we don't need.
The kit isn't fitted yet, and wasn't cheap at £500+, but appears comprehensive and the instructions are quite clear.
I appreciate that you're not looking for fuel injection management, so it ought to be cheaper?

[Midas]

The single best thing I did with my A series engined kit car was fit a MegaJolt. It ran better on just the static timing of the EDIS unit than it had on the dizzy. With a properly set up carb it was getting mpg into the 50’s on a decent run from a 1330 with 266 cam and roller rockers.

[slater]

Why would you do any engine modifications without getting it setup on a rolling road? It's a false economy.

Ditch the dizzy

[madmog]

I used Magajolt on my bike-carbed Lancia engined Minor. Rolling road place made it run fantastic but said I should have used TPS rather than MAP. Just posted to add that people also speak highly of NoDiz these days. Megajolt sill needs Ford EDIS module these days i believe while Nodiz has more options.

[Deleted]

I bought Burton powers complete Constant Energy kit for my escort (pushrod).
Pile of dung, it let me down several times.
Went back to a Ford Mk2 fiesta one and its perfect since.
If not modifying the engine just fit the Pertronix.

[sarkie83]

Sept 19, 2019 14:11:29 GMT slater said:

Why would you do any engine modifications without getting it setup on a rolling road? It's a false economy.

Ditch the dizzy

Thats part of the reason for my hesitation - I don’t want to fit something that I then struggle to get properly setup. Some tuners don’t seem to be amazingly keep on modifying megajolt maps...

[Midas]

Sept 20, 2019 20:51:23 GMT sarkie83 said:

Sept 19, 2019 14:11:29 GMT slater said:

Why would you do any engine modifications without getting it setup on a rolling road? It's a false economy.

Ditch the dizzy

Thats part of the reason for my hesitation - I don’t want to fit something that I then struggle to get properly setup. Some tuners don’t seem to be amazingly keep on modifying megajolt maps...

I found enough maps available for my engine spec to make it pretty easy to flash the ROM with something that worked well. You can take it from there in your own time.

[OGDB]

I’ve run numerous megajolt systems on modified minis, I had a work colleague running one on his ST170 powered Westfield and another few friends who ran them on yanks and they’ve all been very good systems. That was also with a mix of MAP and TPS setups.

I recently had a MK2 fiesta with a 1800 zetec on 45’s as a PX. The builder had used Nodiz which I’ve never had anything to do with before and the features were pretty cool. The majority of it seems to be the same as the megajot but has a few more features, like being able to send all the info and live data to a tablet which was pretty cool. When speaking with the builder he simply downloaded a map from online I think he said and the car appeared to go very well indeed. Gave neither of us any problems. He actually remarked that he had more problems from a tuner than he did with downloading a map. Not sure on the exact details but he revered back to the previous map after a period.

[sarkie83]

Sept 22, 2019 7:38:27 GMT OGDB said:

The builder had used Nodiz which I’ve never had anything to do with before and the features were pretty cool. The majority of it seems to be the same as the megajot but has a few more features, like being able to send all the info and live data to a tablet which was pretty cool.

Yeah been looking at Nodiz as well as it does seem to have a few advantages over megajolt...like not having to use an EDIS module to run the coil pack (not that EDIS modules have a reputation for failing but it’s one less component in the mix). I will have to check with them, but it also seems like the unit can use either tps or map (same unit), whereas megajolt have two different physical versions depending on tps/map input.

I think I’ve come to the conclusion that running some kind of mappable ignition is the way to go. Even at a basic level you can run them 2d (which would be equiv to a dizzy with modified curve), and you still have the scope to add a load sensor later...

[OGDB]

Sept 22, 2019 8:03:53 GMT sarkie83 said:

Sept 22, 2019 7:38:27 GMT OGDB said:

The builder had used Nodiz which I’ve never had anything to do with before and the features were pretty cool. The majority of it seems to be the same as the megajot but has a few more features, like being able to send all the info and live data to a tablet which was pretty cool.

 I will have to check with them, but it also seems like the unit can use either tps or map (same unit), whereas megajolt have two different physical versions depending on tps/map input.

I think that is correct, one unit can cover both but I am not totally sure. I always used to use MAP for turbo application. 

The only reason I went for MJ over Nodiz at the time was online resources and mappers for the MJ far out weighed anything else and I needed all the help I could get. I think on my MJ set up I could get them set up and installed very cheaply. I see MJ offer fill packages for just under £400. Plus they're interchangeable across engines and project cars, so money well spent I always thought. 

[ChasR]

Right, here's my take.

Firstly, I’ll give slater something. Tuning the car on a rolling road is always worth it and can help with longevity (bore wash etc.), and getting more power via ignition timing. Having an AFR gauge can help here I admit, but an RR will get the result easier and quicker, and ultimately, better. If you don’t have an AFR, just get it on the rollers through a known source ☺.

Electronic igntiion IMHO is almost always a no brainer. To simply break it down without going fully in-depth as to why (well, I'll try), here is why.

Pointless-Mechanical Dizzy conversion:
-

• No points, so a little more reliability (I know points can be reliable, but I’ve always had more success with Electronic kits, even over Dwell meter setup points, regarding cold/damp or a stood-for-a-while starting
• Keep the ballast coil, but keep the ballast resistor if you do. Going ballastless with the corresponding coil will make no difference, and it can start better with the ballast coil.
• Weights are fine but they can be a game of compromises and significantly more fiddling./li]
  

So, the fully electronic side. Both MJ and Nodiz and equally tuneable from what I’ve seen, but admittedly you can get maps from people for the MJ systems. But are they to be trusted?

Anyway, I digress. With the Nodiz-esque solutions, you can do all sorts like:

Having a mappable ignition curve:
• It will be easy to start with a low enough curve, but you can bump it up for idling so as to get a smooth idle, thus avoid engine ‘kick-back’ when starting. A rare thing but every little helps.
• Having it mappable will allow it to be easier to make the most of the engine.
• Less moving parts, less things to go wrong, albeit harder to fix when it goes wrong in the eyes of some.
• Having the vacuum setup still in can help with fuel economy and possible part-throttle torque, which again will help fuel economy. Racers remove the vacuum capsule as having a fixed baseplate is one less thing which can destroy the engine on a dizzy based engine, that’s all. Part throttle isn’t something that is really used in racing

To me, it’s a no brainer. Here’s one more thing. Engine Masters did a test on Ignition timing and fuel adjustments. Fuelling wasn’t shown to have a massive effect on power but it did influence it admittedly, not as much as I thought it would. Ignition timing however murdered the power of the engine, as inin a 100BHP loss on a 360BHP engine. Admittedly, they used extreme examples to demonstrate that , going from 10 degrees total ignition timing to 35 degrees ignition timing.

I’ve seen that with cars I’ve owned from a butt dyno, but I never realised the effects were that extreme.

A 123-Ignition system is the halfway house system to this, which is fully mappable, but they are not cheap.

[dodgerover]

The guy behind NODIZ used to be a member on here, in not sure if he still is. I seem to remember some unpleasantness between the people behind MJ and him - I think he was accused of copying their set up then proceed to prove he hadn't.
I could be wrong and I'm happy if the mods want to delete that bit.

[droopsnoot]

Sept 22, 2019 8:03:53 GMT sarkie83 said:

...like not having to use an EDIS module to run the coil pack (not that EDIS modules have a reputation for failing but it’s one less component in the mix).

I haven't any direct experience of these things, but have been reading up a bit, now and then, as I'm considering fitting it to something. But isn't the EDIS a good thing, in that it will allow the engine to run in a basic mode if the MJ module failed for some reason?

[Phil H]

That’s why I prefer to go EDIS - at least it’s a known starting point. As default it run 10 degrees BTDC - curse word for normal running but it’ll run. I’ve not heard of one failing on its own yet.

[sarkie83]

Sept 22, 2019 10:43:44 GMT ChasR said:

...
To me, it’s a no brainer. Here’s one more thing. Engine Masters did a test on Ignition timing and fuel adjustments. Fuelling wasn’t shown to have a massive effect on power but it did influence it admittedly, not as much as I thought it would. Ignition timing however murdered the power of the engine, as inin a 100BHP loss on a 360BHP engine. Admittedly, they used extreme examples to demonstrate that , going from 10 degrees total ignition timing to 35 degrees ignition timing.

That’s why I’ve been focusing on getting everything setup on the 1600 pinto...before rebuilding the 2.0 and dropping it in, I am trying to focus on getting fuelling and ignition as spot on as I can as a,priority. I might actually take the drastic step of putting a standard cam in it

Thanks for the comprehensive reply btw (and to all the others on this thread )

[sarkie83]

Sept 23, 2019 9:14:45 GMT droopsnoot said:

Sept 22, 2019 8:03:53 GMT sarkie83 said:

...like not having to use an EDIS module to run the coil pack (not that EDIS modules have a reputation for failing but it’s one less component in the mix).

I haven't any direct experience of these things, but have been reading up a bit, now and then, as I'm considering fitting it to something. But isn't the EDIS a good thing, in that it will allow the engine to run in a basic mode if the MJ module failed for some reason?

Sept 23, 2019 13:19:56 GMT Phil H said:

That’s why I prefer to go EDIS - at least it’s a known starting point. As default it run 10 degrees BTDC - curse word for normal running but it’ll run. I’ve not heard of one failing on its own yet.

Good point ..EDIS would let it run in limp mode. However I don’t see why a MJ/Nodiz module should be anymore likely to fail. My experience of electronic devices is that it’s physical parts which fail (buttons, screens, sockets) rather than than circuit boards. Plus an EDIS module and a MJ module means double the chance of me supplying one of them with a bad feed/dodgy earth

[sowen]

I've had a couple of my cars running on Megajolt prior to going full Megasquirt. Plenty of maps out there for a variety of setups, not to mention it's dead easy to tweak and test the mapping yourself. I've not tried Nodiz but have heard it's just as good? And if you're a big immature child it's possible to retard the timing on overrun to get some pops and bangs out of the exhaust.....

[ChasR]

Sept 22, 2019 20:24:49 GMT dodgerover said:

The guy behind NODIZ used to be a member on here, in not sure if he still is. I seem to remember some unpleasantness between the people behind MJ and him - I think he was accused of copying their set up then proceed to prove he hadn't.
I could be wrong and I'm happy if the mods want to delete that bit.

Megasquirt seem to think so, and yes, Matt is still a member here, and the thread can be found elsewhere.

However, the Nodiz solution also doesn't use the EDIS module either, so who knows?

www.msextra.com/clones/

[madmog]

The link above refers to Megasquirt clones, no mention of Megajolt or Nodiz?