ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 983
Club RR Member Number: 13
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Oh, I'm certainly being harsh! š
It's all subjective and really means nothing. For instance, I've never felt my 13/60 herald is a classic. It looks too modern compared to the original heralds. I'm also sure that to people 20 years my senior that they look at the current classics and feel the same.
It's going to be the same with new generations as well. What we see as modern because we've grown up seeing certain cars coming off the production line will be old in their eyes as their parents drove them to school in them. MK4 astras to me will never be retro, but in years to come new people will have a nostalgia factor and happy memories associated to them. Eventually we'll be the old farts adapting to what's acceptable to an ever changing scene.
Let's be honest. Most classics and retros are only still around because at one point they had no value and were bought by someone who couldn't afford a newer car but needed something cheap for transport. What will be interesting is that years ago cars wouldn't survive much belong ten years, but new ones seem to keep going for much longer. Until the electrics give out. You need a sensor for a 25 year old car? Well you're stuffed unless it's still a popular car/part or you can adapt something.
End of ramble. š
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When I was a member of the NZ Vintage Car Club in the late '80s many things now considered classic and/or retro were "moderns" and therefore uninteresting. There was even some controversy about allowing post WW2 vehicles to participate in club activities. Now the NZVCC allows anything up to (I think) 1990 to participate, certainly '80s. To some this seems wrong but it keeps the hobby alive.
Our dailies were both made in 1990 but because we're in our fifties we tend to think of them as modern and treat them accordingly, probably because we remember them being new cars. They are modern enough to be reasonably reliable but old enough to be cheap and (relatively) simple mechanically.
Short answer to the original question is that the dividing line must move with the decades.
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It all depends on your point of view. I was talking to an old Hot Rodder about his racecar, and he mentioned it has a Quickchange rear with latemodel axles. To him that meant the axles were out of a '49/'54 Shoebox Ford...
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Certain cars can be classics as soon as they leave the showroom, but for any car to be retro it takes time.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Still far too many of them around as normal peopleās everyday car for them to be interesting.
Thatās kinda the thing, as soon as you become the person in your area with the only remaining example of any model, then itās retro/interesting.
Thatās why you can have 2 cars the same age but one becomes retro before the other. For example, 1997. Mk4 golf, mk2 Mondeo, Corsa b, vectra. = no. Bmw 840, Volvo 960, Lexus ls400, even the bmw e36. All uncommon enough to be interesting, or full on retro.
Itās about frequency as much as outright age.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,834
Club RR Member Number: 174
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I think the "retro" tag is subjective to what age group you are hence why it is relateable to most people as it's so diverse.
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I have my own take on this;
Anything made before I was born is a classic,
Anything made before I learned to drive is retro,
Anything made after I passed my test is modern,
Anything made since 2010 is a super high tech space ship.
Alternatively, if you rarely see them used as daily transport anymore, on your way to work or the supermarket car park then it probably qualifies as retro.
Personally I wouldn't call a Zafira retro, but if you you like it then enjoy it and don't fuss about what category it slots into.
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I think they're just on the cusp of retro (the OPs car), retro is so subjective nobody will get it right. The sales section here hasn't been updated in how long? 1999 is 20 years old now, the sales section needs moving up to date, maybe 2005, a mkI TT is definitely retro.
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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When I stop seeing Zafiras parked in Tescos then maybe. I am seeing more and more 'newer' cars at local shows nowdays. I cannot work out what is 'Retro' about a bog stock 53 plate Jag XK or 54 plate BMW 'souper douper model' coupe. Yet, for whatever reason, the owners of said cars had them parked up alongside other older cars on display recently. It was no surprise that people just walked on by. A modified Zafira may well be of interest to people and may belong with other modified 'moderns' at meets and shows but they are not retro and will not be until old farts like me are pushing up the daisies and the next generation are telling everybody who will listen that they remember going to the seaside in the family MK1 Focus when they were barely out of nappies. This is the truth, Retro, for want of a better word, gets applied to cars of different eras by people born in different eras. I have owned a new Focus, Zafira, MG ZT190, Rover 75 and many more which some class as Retro or classic but, to me, are old bangers ( apart from the ZT ) which are still out there for old banger money. ...and still parked in Tescos while the owners go shopping.
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I have a 2002 R170 Merc Slk. Despite it being almost identical to earlier cars, I don't consider it a retro motor.
When it reaches 20 years old maybe I will but for now, nope.
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speedy88
Club Retro Rides Member
"Nice Cortina mate"
Posts: 2,277
Club RR Member Number: 118
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It really is subjective. My old boss (who sells cars for a living) was astounded that I managed to get 3k for my Colt Sigma when I sold it last year. But he's in his 50s/60s so to him it would be the equivalent of a late 90s Galant becoming a valued classic for me.
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Oct 10, 2019 19:35:17 GMT
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as subjective as it may be, just out of interest, what would people class one of these as. If you class it as nothing that is fully acceptable, i bought one to be a practical, reliable, daily commuter that I could chuck stuff in the back off at weekends. Its perfect for that, but the amount of looks it gets from all sorts of people in all sorts of cars makes me think about it in a slightly different way to what it was originally bought for. I can tell from some people its a simple 'WTF?!', even little kids point at it, which is fine, but even my boss said he thinks 'its cool' and hes never had anything to say about cars. Not that I care, but I am starting to think about it in the same way as anything retro/classic ive owned in the past.
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speedy88
Club Retro Rides Member
"Nice Cortina mate"
Posts: 2,277
Club RR Member Number: 118
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Oct 10, 2019 21:07:17 GMT
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They're an interesting design for a modern. Have potential if lowered on decent wheels but use K12 running gear which makes them dull as dishwater. But that just like my opinion, man.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Oct 10, 2019 21:11:22 GMT
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as subjective as it may be, just out of interest, what would people class one of these as. If you class it as nothing that is fully acceptable, i bought one to be a practical, reliable, daily commuter that I could chuck stuff in the back off at weekends. Its perfect for that, but the amount of looks it gets from all sorts of people in all sorts of cars makes me think about it in a slightly different way to what it was originally bought for. I can tell from some people its a simple 'WTF?!', even little kids point at it, which is fine, but even my boss said he thinks 'its cool' and hes never had anything to say about cars. Not that I care, but I am starting to think about it in the same way as anything retro/classic ive owned in the past. I bought a z11 for the mrs. and it gets similar reactions. Tbh sometimes I think it gets more attention than my much older stuff! I think z12s are still a modern tbh. Z11s are sorta becoming retro now though. Part of it is cos z12s were a UK market car, whereas J imports sort of seem to āmatureā faster than domestic stuff in my eyes.
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Last Edit: Oct 10, 2019 21:12:10 GMT by Dez
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Oct 10, 2019 22:37:23 GMT
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I think they're just on the cusp of retro (the OPs car), retro is so subjective nobody will get it right. The sales section here hasn't been updated in how long? 1999 is 20 years old now, the sales section needs moving up to date, maybe 2005, a mkI TT is definitely retro. To be fair the classifieds section is one area that is strict about whatās included and even then the odd interesting thing gets accepted. Iād much rather it stay this way than have to wade through adverts for post 2000 average modern cars when I want to buy something weird and cheap. This site will always be predominantly based on what the core founders / admin team (born mid to late 70s?) class as retro for the generation. Whereas the boundaries of āretroā will shift as millennials age I donāt think this site will or ever should. The irony is that this site / community was born due to the analness of stuffy classic clubs that were anti modifications and vehicles newer than 60s / 70s. This site brings true fun with 80s and 90s cars (and obviously earlier) but Iām sure at some point- maybe in five or ten years time thereāll be a new group who find us lot all stuffy for refusing to accept millennial cars as retro. I wonder what internet platform any future car clubs that form will frequent as I sure the social media bubble will burst soon, any way I digress. I appreciate Iāve made wild assumptions in the making of this post.
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ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 983
Club RR Member Number: 13
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as subjective as it may be, just out of interest, what would people class one of these as. If you class it as nothing that is fully acceptable, i bought one to be a practical, reliable, daily commuter that I could chuck stuff in the back off at weekends. Its perfect for that, but the amount of looks it gets from all sorts of people in all sorts of cars makes me think about it in a slightly different way to what it was originally bought for. I can tell from some people its a simple 'WTF?!', even little kids point at it, which is fine, but even my boss said he thinks 'its cool' and hes never had anything to say about cars. Not that I care, but I am starting to think about it in the same way as anything retro/classic ive owned in the past. It's quirky and nothing else. One day it will be retro. And yes, I want one and have been following various facebook pages and BCA auctions! š
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Oct 11, 2019 13:07:48 GMT
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I don't care what label you hang on it, I like it!!
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74 Mk1 Escort 1360, 1971 Vauxhall Victor SL2000 Estate.
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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Oct 11, 2019 15:37:25 GMT
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It really is subjective. My old boss (who sells cars for a living) was astounded that I managed to get 3k for my Colt Sigma when I sold it last year. But he's in his 50s/60s so to him it would be the equivalent of a late 90s Galant becoming a valued classic for me. I'm in my 50s and think your Sigma was as cool as!
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Oct 11, 2019 17:28:34 GMT
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I don't care what label you hang on it, I like it!! And I think thats the whole point, at least I think thats how I see it. Like I mentioned before, I like it in the same way ive liked my classics and retros in the past, even though its neither. Dez mentioned the z11 cube. To me they sit somewhere in the classic bracket, I'm unaware of any other car to have an assymetric rear end like that with a wrap-around rear window on one side, its a classic feature and its what theyve become known for. Also the early k11 micra, without an airbag, absolutly bare-bones early ones are a classic shape to me, and both cars are retro. At a push i think i can say that the z12 has DNA in it somewhere that makes it appeal to to me in the same way, but it is modern and id never class it as retro or classic, so i'll think of something else.
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C320
Part of things
Posts: 24
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Oct 25, 2019 11:05:56 GMT
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Personally I think retro is in the eye of the beholder. I'd subscribe to this view too. It'sĀ certainly older than a lot of cars on the road these days, so much of the metal on the roads now is much newer than it ever has been thanks to the world of PCP finance and leasing. I kind of get the '20 year' cut off point, but I think anything older than 15 years could be considered retro or a modern classic. The one thing that really bugs me is people calling 'classic cars' vintage, that's a whole other discussion but I'd say vintage needs to be pre 1930's - maybe time will shift to include 1940's models in the vintage classification.
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