Lead additive

[okp]

I've seen various discussions on this, most ending that it's nothing more than snake oil and by the time any valve damage occurs, the engine is in need of a rebuild anyway for reaching such high mileage
For the price of it, I think, for peace if mind it can do no harm... or can it?
There are various brands at various prices,and yet none approved of any sort so how can you be sure that what you're buying is actually doing anything at all?

[dodgerover]

I run flashlube with my LPG vehicles, not had a valve burn out yet when it's been used.

We used to use Castrol Valve master when we were in NZ did plenty of miles on unleaded and it seemed to work.

[ChasR]

Nov 22, 2019 19:33:51 GMT dodgerover said:

I run flashlube with my LPG vehicles, not had a valve burn out yet when it's been used.

We used to use Castrol Valve master when we were in NZ did plenty of miles on unleaded and it seemed to work.

I've had two cars burn out before, despite using it correctly. OK, I was doing some serious mileage back then, but still. I bought a Mondeo on 133k, fitted it with LPG at 150k and it needed new valves throughout at 210,000 miles. On the rebuilt head, it lived on that head to the day I sold it and beyond, which was 322k.

My sister's Mondeo, also failed in a similar manner, as did a friend's 57 plate Vectra. Those two admittedly didn't use Flashlube. The first one we had did have LPG fitted at 90k and live on to 380k on the same head with Flashlube; that was however a very early car, so I do wonder if the heads were different to the later cars; all of our later cars were 2003 and 2007, which was the last year of production for the Mk3 Mondeo.

IMHO, the only way to get them not to burn valves is to change them. Alot of people will say their cars run fine, but their definition of fine can be a different interpretation to others ; many think because it's an old car, it will cough and splutter a bit, which is not the case; I've had an MG purr with a rock solid idle before.

What car is it regarding the OP?

[okp]

Morris minor.... although ital engine
So not lpg

I'm talking lead replacement, running on regular unleaded as 4 star is t available

[ChasR]

Nov 23, 2019 8:57:32 GMT okp said:

Morris minor.... although ital engine
So not lpg

I'm talking lead replacement, running on regular unleaded as 4 star is t available

If you can spanner on the engine yourself, I’d run it with an additive but prepare to do the valves at one point. To get an A Series head done isn’t a massive cost.

You could always buy a Stage 3 head with big valves while you are at it...

[ChasR]

Nov 23, 2019 9:03:27 GMT ChasR said:

Nov 23, 2019 8:57:32 GMT okp said:

Morris minor.... although ital engine
So not lpg

I'm talking lead replacement, running on regular unleaded as 4 star is t available

If you can spanner on the engine yourself, I’d run it with an additive but prepare to do the valves at one point. To get an A Series head done isn’t a massive cost.

You could always buy a Stage 3 head with big valves while you are at it...

When I ran BL stuff, I used to use Valvemaster Plus

[okp]

I can do the work, it was more aimed at, do these additives actually help or are they just snake oil, sold to us as a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist.
The lead in the fuel was there to help octane and to cushion the valves but it seems there are many people running on straight unleaded and yielding healthy long mileage.
There is seemingly no checks or control over the manufacture of the lead additive, so they could be absolutely anything with none of the properties they boast for all we know

[dodgerover]

Leaded memory of the valves is why they keep going running unleaded, new valves and recut seats (so loosing the lead that's become impregnated over the years) and they burn out in no time.

[igor]

I used valvemaster in my Austin 1300 when New Zealand first went lead free back in the '90s but I have no idea whether it made any difference or not. I suspect not.
We didn't use any additive when running lead free in my first wife's Mk3 Cortina 2000E or my Allegro 1300 but we didn't really have either of those long enough to know whether there was a problem or not.
Having dailied an XC Falcon 4.1 from 2000 to 2003 and a Wolseley 1300 from 2006 to about 2014, both on lead free petrol with no additive and no valve or valve seat problems, I'm inclined to believe that these additives are largely snake oil.
In all my years of driving (got my licence in '83) I've only encountered burnt valves twice and the presence or absence of lead in the fuel was not a contributory factor in either case as one was a 1098 powered Mini Clubman running on leaded petrol back in the '80s and the other was my wife's Laser, a vehicle designed for unleaded fuel, that burnt a valve earlier this year with 447,000 odd km on the clock.

[igor]

Nov 23, 2019 10:36:52 GMT dodgerover said:

Leaded memory of the valves is why they keep going running unleaded, new valves and recut seats (so loosing the lead that's become impregnated over the years) and they burn out in no time.

If replacing valves in an engine designed for leaded petrol would you not be inclined to fit hardened valve seats at the same time to mitigate this issue?

[okp]

So it's the build up in the seats, but using unleaded straight, will in time, in effect clean the seats and leave them open to damage?

But then I've heard people running straight unleaded for many years and many miles without issue.

For the price of the additive and peace if mind I'll still continue to use it, but was just interested in general opinion on how much of an aid it is

[dodgerover]

Nov 23, 2019 10:49:47 GMT igor said:

Nov 23, 2019 10:36:52 GMT dodgerover said:

Leaded memory of the valves is why they keep going running unleaded, new valves and recut seats (so loosing the lead that's become impregnated over the years) and they burn out in no time.

If replacing valves in an engine designed for leaded petrol would you not be inclined to fit hardened valve seats at the same time to mitigate this issue?

Bring honest it was for my work van so I didn't really have time for it to be off the road.
I just stuck a spare head on thinking as it had lasted so long without leaded fuel, it would probably last a good while just putting in new valves and recutting the seats,
I think it managed 6000 miles before burning an exhaust valve, at which point I had hardened seats fitted in my original head and put that on....

[bmcnut]

Back when my dad ran Maxis, someone he knew tested the metal in the head and found that its grade was so close to that of replacement valve seats that it wasn't worth worrying about. Dad never used additive and never had a problem. I don't know if this applies to any other engines. If the additives do serve any benefit, id have to assume that the silly lead pellets you could get to drop in the tank are as much use as a chocolate teapot.

[ChasR]

Nov 23, 2019 14:15:08 GMT bmcnut said:

Back when my dad ran Maxis, someone he knew tested the metal in the head and found that its grade was so close to that of replacement valve seats that it wasn't worth worrying about. Dad never used additive and never had a problem. I don't know if this applies to any other engines. If the additives do serve any benefit, id have to assume that the silly lead pellets you could get to drop in the tank are as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Some engines didn't need uprated seats back then due to the assembly process. My Mercedes is one of them, mainly as the US went to unleaded quite early on. I think Triumph Stags were the same, given they were designed for the US Martket.

IIRC the E-Series was destined for Australia in the end. I don't know whether unleaded was present there or not, so that might explain your dad's findings.

[gtviva]

The only one I will use is Tetra Boost, not cheap but ive found it to be the best, you can alter the dosage to get unleaded back up to the old 5 star