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Nov 30, 2019 23:15:08 GMT
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Be said 600 and I said Inc vat he said no plus vat. I said I only had 600 total. He has given me a written quote with panel diagrams for £500 plus vat. Okay, so really that's what needs to be factored in here. It's a Blackpool based jobbing bodyshop with staff and overheads, not a southern boutique that takes on restoration commissions and has no staff or other regular overheads to worry about. That will affect opinions on the quote. Rates for work are always very different north vs south so what sounds worryingly cheap to somebody down south might be par for the course more locally. A study showed there was an average of £200 in cost difference for equivalent automotive servicing and maintenance works done north vs south a year or so back. Also, your man has got to make his books every month and retain his workforce, pay his suppliers, pay back the credit extension with the bank, whatever. If it's tough out there and somebody asks for a quote and then says they only have 600 total, he has to decide whether he wants the 500 or wants to let it go elsewhere. It's coming up to Christmas. He's got payroll, property rent or leasing to worry about, his tax bill, his vat bill, he owes suppliers, he has 101 other outgoings that a real business has to endure week in and week out. Its stressful running a proper commercial business. I think that there's always a quid pro quo with talking a price down. By getting it cheaper he may be over a barrel and agrees to do the work because needs must, but he's probably doing it 'plan b' not 'plan a' and it might be 80% and lasts for two years not 100% and good for ten. So that really comes back to what you expect for your new daily - which you bought with cosmetic damage - and how high you set the bar. Do you need a restoration project finish or something more akin to a magic hammer session and some sprayola? Edit: for clarity "magic hammer and sprayola" is not meant to imply it will look terrible. It might look good enough, for long enough, for your expectations.
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Last Edit: Nov 30, 2019 23:45:49 GMT by Deleted
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Nov 30, 2019 23:20:25 GMT
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Will get a price from my known place on Monday and see how it compares. Gotta dash, it's time to let my whippet out in the back yard and have a stand up wash.
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When i worked for an international car rental firm many years ago, i had a bodyshop in belfast who were top notch, great repairs, and these were new cars One of my Directors went to see them, and came back ranting & raving about how they were working out of a cow shed My response was ‘ i don't care if he's working out of a tent, if what comes out of the door is ok I'm happy’ He tried to stop me giving them business and i wouldn't, he then went down the poor repair route, until i pointed out that the side he was complaining about was done by one of his pet bodyshops! Strangely enough i didn't hear any more My point? don't dismiss the little guys
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Someone on here would argue about fresh air if was rationed - but get one thing straight everyone but everyone has overheads - I'm lucky to have a home based workshop but still incur significant regular overheads that add to a lot more than what some others would like to assume - 'Southern Boutique' must give that more thought - I might obtain another fiver an hour if I used that strapline - back to the OP's original question - its a very cheap quote - fact that he's mentioned coming on to the top of the wings to obtain the colour match is good - fact that his estimate is in writing & plus vat would also put confidence in his work - personally I'd give him a go
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Someone on here would argue about fresh air if was rationed - but get one thing straight everyone but everyone has overheads - I'm lucky to have a home based workshop but still incur significant regular overheads that add to a lot more than what some others would like to assume - 'Southern Boutique' must give that more thought - I might obtain another fiver an hour if I used that strapline - back to the OP's original question - its a very cheap quote - fact that he's mentioned coming on to the top of the wings to obtain the colour match is good - fact that his estimate is in writing & plus vat would also put confidence in his work - personally I'd give him a go Hello Grumpy, You seem to have taken a turn at the mention of a boutique business. You might be interested to learn that your business is the very definition of a boutique business, so it's possible you're being a little bit sensitive and seeing a slur where no slur was intended... So my point really was that price disparities north vs south, plus skill/expectation disparities between a boutique vintage restoration service and a jobbing mechanical garage, plus the fact nobody has actually seen the extent of the work involved here mean it's probably not wise to seek opinions online on the plausibility of the quote. That's not an argument against you now is it Grumpy, its just fact. I wasnt even talking to you, I was replying to the original poster. You decided to make it about you for some reason. It isnt always about you my old fruit. Try and accommodate other people's thoughts and opinions without seeing them as an assault on your own. Things will stop seeming like arguments to you all the time if you do.
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Last Edit: Dec 1, 2019 10:59:13 GMT by Deleted
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Someone on here would argue about fresh air if was rationed - but get one thing straight everyone but everyone has overheads - I'm lucky to have a home based workshop but still incur significant regular overheads that add to a lot more than what some others would like to assume - 'Southern Boutique' must give that more thought - I might obtain another fiver an hour if I used that strapline - back to the OP's original question - its a very cheap quote - fact that he's mentioned coming on to the top of the wings to obtain the colour match is good - fact that his estimate is in writing & plus vat would also put confidence in his work - personally I'd give him a go Hello Grumpy, You seem to have taken a turn at the mention of a boutique business. You might be interested to learn that your business is the very definition of a boutique business, so it's possible you're being a little bit sensitive and seeing a slur where no slur was intended... So my point really was that price disparities north vs south, plus skill/expectation disparities between a boutique vintage restoration service and a jobbing mechanical garage, plus the fact nobody has actually seen the extent of the work involved here mean it's probably not wise to seek opinions online on the plausibility of the quote. That's not an argument against you now is it Grumpy, its just fact. I wasnt even talking to you, I was replying to the original poster. You decided to make it about you for some reason. It isnt always about you my old fruit. Try and accommodate other people's thoughts and opinions without seeing them as an assault on your own. Things will stop seeming like arguments to you all the time if you do. Never been a boutique business - never will be - no argument seemed or assumed - not about me whilst it's not about you either - whilst I hold many years experience I don't consider myself old nor a fruit come to that - I never considered your comments has an assault on my own comments either but maybe you just ought to stop if you can going to war on anyone else's opinions & comments (that's if I'm allowed one) - The OP requested our comments / opinions - he's now got that and can now move forward - book closed - or do you need the last word (again) PS - I don't charge premium prices either
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Last Edit: Dec 1, 2019 11:13:34 GMT by Deleted
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Well, only to wish you a very happy Christmas Grumpy. Its December 1st. My kids have opened door number one on their advent calendars. So it is the season of goodwill to all men.
Seasons greetings to you and yours.
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Last Edit: Dec 1, 2019 11:41:44 GMT by Deleted
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,188
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Quote for body workChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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After having my M3 painted, and a few cars over the years from a number of bodyshops (I've probably used 3 or 4 now, from super cheap to 'top-end'), I'd say that's on the cheap side, but as said, some places do exist like this. As an example (and yes I really did spend on that much on some cars, but this is what happens with honesty and exposure): -944 Turbo (Full respray bar the doors and roof, and a severe dent correction on the rear 1/4, and stripdown of the bumpers, all in Alpine White (£1k) in 2013; It looked good but you could tell where the corners were cut (overspray was a problem; it always was with that guy -Mondeo 2.0 Ghia X : £180 for two doors with a deep scratch in in 2007. It looked curse word. I could have done a better job with my eyes closed it was that bad; Orangle peely, the wrong black by a mile (solid black instead of metallic Panther Black) and with zero shine and trash in the paint. I do wonder if he just got a random black rattle can and threw it on in all honesty. Honestly, I wish I bought a touch up pen to correct the scratch on the 2 doors, the result was that awful afterwards. A number of guys told me this guy was amazing and cheap. He certainly wasn't one of them -VW Beetle 1200 : £800 for a full respray/blowover in 2005 ; this was amortised into the buying price of £1.5k for a Beetle without an MOT, but welded up. No booth but the guy was very good. He was also a dying breed. He was good, but he had little overheads with a full paid up and mortgage -free building, with only enough room to paint two cars at a push in there; it was a juggling act. He only did it apaprently to keep himself busy in retirement. It's a shame his retirement didn't go beyond 55 years old though . -M3 ; Rust correction on the front wings, and a bonnet and bumper respray; £900 in 2014. It was a good job to be fair, but I'm annoyed the wings are rusting again. In hindsight I should never have painted them but I could not bring myself to spend £300 a wing either and I've previously done similar repairs myself and had them last longer. Ah well, lesson learned. -Merc W124 ; Full bootlid stripdown to bare metal, and bumpers too, in addition to the wing repairs (hole filling): £800. This guy went cheap on the front wings but perfect everywhere else; My friend did the wings elsewhere. A painter/resto friend quoted me £1.3k for the same job but I knew he would do the wings right; but he was too busy to take it on for a few months. -Mondeo MKIV Saloon rear bumper : £250 out of the gun including fixing a dent in the bumper (material pointing outwards). This is the same guy who did the M3. To be fair, the out the gun finish was surprisingly good and that bumper still looks good 4 years on. I do wonder if he was on the pricier side, but then the work did last.
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Last Edit: Dec 1, 2019 15:14:26 GMT by ChasR
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Ok so took the xc90 to the people I have used before. They were at 850 plus vat.They were on about not painting the whole bonnet unlike the first place. So I called the other place and spoke to one of the body guys. Had a chat and asked if I would be able to tell it had been repaired. He was almost upset! Hell no! he said. I do a good job. So it's in there now and I am driving a corsa. Will let you know how it comes out on Thursday.
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I can second repair work being cheaper up North, living down South prices charged here come as a shock!
Even the cost of getting a plug put in a tyre is double down here and I've tried quite a few places!
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But now & again what you will find in the South is a Northerner whom brings & trades his skills / crafts on a sensible Northern value for money basis - few & far between but they are out there - you just have to track them down
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,620
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£500 for a days work
Even if you said it was £200 for materials and the workshop etc thats still £300 for a days work...
£300!
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£500 for a days work Even if you said it was £200 for materials and the workshop etc thats still £300 for a days work... £300! If you're doing it out of your shed as a pocket money job, that sounds a bit much. A bit. But out of professional premises as a business? It's less than £30 an hour! Including the VAT too.
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,620
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Less than £30 an hour!
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£500 for a days work Even if you said it was £200 for materials and the workshop etc thats still £300 for a days work... £300! If you're doing it out of your shed as a pocket money job, that sounds a bit much. A bit. But out of professional premises as a business? It's less than £30 an hour! Including the VAT too. Exactly. I would say a National Average would be £60+VAT per hour.
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Specialist Bodyshop & Fabrication Classic, Retro, Prestige & Custom Small Repairs to Concours Restorations Mechanical Work Vintage to Modern
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,188
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Quote for body workChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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I suspect that alot of people will look at that and expect painters to be on minimum wage, especially when people say "That's £300 a day!". But here's a few things to consider: - Painting is a skill, albeit a trainable one for most disciplines of work, but it's still something that an average shelf-staker/person with zero interest in cars or carpentry can possibly do
- This is forgotten, especially by the folks who paint at home, but the heath risks of painting are very real; there is no nuns and kittens about it : An Occy Health guy I know knows of loads of painters with respiratory problems who have succombed to them. Me? A painter I knew personally who didn't take the risks that seriously is no longer here ; 52 years old was when he went, with health issues prior to that most likely from painting without the correct gear (this was the Beetle painter I referred to in another thread
- To paint well and to not make a hash of painting requires alot of patience, more around the activities that don't involve you spraying but the prep work and refinishing: It's taken me years and years as a tinkerer to get to an ameuter level and it seems that's the case for most home guys I know; I seriously doubt many people have the patience to mask and wait for paint drying etc. How many times have you had a car back without overspray somwhere annoying? I know that I can barely count it on one hand
- Decent materials like guns, sanding equipment, masking equipment etc. make such a difference. They also tend to be expensive ; as a beginner/amateur I've probably spent almost £100 just on materials to do one small spot on one of my cars (Around an A4 sheet of paper in total; paints don't keep forever remember and require correct storage to even last; that costs as well
And that is why painting isn't cheap; I have to remind myself of that. You only begin to realise the above when you start helping people, and when people only want you to help them so as to go cheaper on costs rather than being friendly. Make no mistake, it's great to help others out to get them kickstarted but it's not fair to be taken for a ride when the other person has zero intention of using another means and without understanding why the charges are what they are ; if it were that easy, more people would be painters/mechanics, not office workers or shelf stackers .
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,620
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Is £300 a day minimum wage?
If it was a 10 hour day at min wage that would be £81 give or take.
When did taking home £300 a day become "A cheap poor quality job" ? (That's £9k a month before tax etc btw, hardly man in a shed money)
What i'm taking offense to here is everyone saying it will be a poor job just because the man in the unit doesn't want to take a grand off you that day!
I'll leave it at that now, greed bores me! VOTE LABOUR
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Is £300 a day minimum wage? If it was a 10 hour day at min wage that would be £81 give or take. When did taking home £300 a day become "A cheap poor quality job" ? (That's £9k a month before tax etc btw, hardly man in a shed money) What i'm taking offense to here is everyone saying it will be a poor job just because the man in the unit doesn't want to take a grand off you that day! A few may have implied that but most have stated it's a very cheap quote which will put most into questioning how a good a job am I going to get for my money territory and rightly so - but it sounds from the OP's further enquiries that it will be all good
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To further add to this there is no way that he's taking £300 home from the job - £500 job broken down will be £150 materials - £150 overhead (building / rates / heating / lighting / insurance / phone + numerous other hidden charges) - it leaves £200 for a days work - I would say that's pretty fair for what is a highly skilled trade - add to the fact that the business owner needs to somehow make a margin on the work but its going to be small in the region of £50 depending upon what he is paying his staff but decent all-round experienced bodyshop personnel can readily demand £150 + a day
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Last Edit: Dec 5, 2019 8:50:31 GMT by Deleted
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,710
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Quote for body workDez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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Also, with the best will in the world, and no matter how many jobs they’ve got on, there is downtime. And lots of it. Especially this time of year where generally the only fully heated part of the workshop will be the booth. The idea that they’re earning £30p/h, 10hrs a day is just nonsense. Actual billable time would probably only be about 6hrs.
Painting is a difficult job that requires time-earned skill, and the risk factor of expensive tooling and high overheads. £30p/h is very much the bottom end of the market for such things.
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