1960 Frogeye Sprite - Econofrog

[jamesd1972]

Small car = lots of progress!
What engine and box came with it? A series appear to be getting expensive for anything fruity.
James

[homersimpson]

It came with a 1098 engine which I suspect is from a morris minor and a ribcase gearbox. Based on the cars I've had before I will probably stick with the 1098 as its quite a nice engine and parts are not overly expensive.

People on the mini forums (mini people are really the leaders in tuning the A-Series) are now getting big power outputs from the 1275 A Series, most of the time I suspect they are paying a lot to do that and the reliablity won't be great and they are only doing thas because fitting another engine to a mini is a lot more difficult than something in a RWD configuration like a sprite.

If I was going to go for something fast I would probably go for a Rover K-Series or an MX5, the K-Series has its issues with head gaskets but I've done a lot of these over the years and if done properly and the stiffening rail in the sump is changed for the updated one they tend to be fairly reliable. The MX5 does have the advantage of coming with a gearbox already mounted though which is a big plus.

[glenanderson]

If it is enough, then the 1098cc version of the A-series is a lovely, understressed and flexible unit. Even in a Minor they go pretty well. The big trouble with more power, is that you generally need more of everything else as well, and that gets really spendy, really quick. I would think, given the stratospheric rise in values, sticking with “period” mods would be the way to go; so the 1098 you already have is probably ideal, and a largely stock 1275 probably the limit, unless the “econofrog” title is out the window already. 🤣

[homersimpson]

Mar 3, 2024 12:09:30 GMT glenanderson said:

If it is enough, then the 1098cc version of the A-series is a lovely, understressed and flexible unit. Even in a Minor they go pretty well. The big trouble with more power, is that you generally need more of everything else as well, and that gets really spendy, really quick. I would think, given the stratospheric rise in values, sticking with “period” mods would be the way to go; so the 1098 you already have is probably ideal, and a largely stock 1275 probably the limit, unless the “econofrog” title is out the window already. 🤣

Yes I think so, the econofrog theme is definately going to be a theme throughout this project as it was with the Jag, more bourne out of necessity than anything else :-)

[worthidlj]

Mar 3, 2024 8:37:45 GMT homersimpson said:

It came with a 1098 engine which I suspect is from a morris minor and a ribcase gearbox. Based on the cars I've had before I will probably stick with the 1098 as its quite a nice engine and parts are not overly expensive.

People on the mini forums (mini people are really the leaders in tuning the A-Series) are now getting big power outputs from the 1275 A Series, most of the time I suspect they are paying a lot to do that and the reliablity won't be great and they are only doing thas because fitting another engine to a mini is a lot more difficult than something in a RWD configuration like a sprite.

If I was going to go for something fast I would probably go for a Rover K-Series or an MX5, the K-Series has its issues with head gaskets but I've done a lot of these over the years and if done properly and the stiffening rail in the sump is changed for the updated one they tend to be fairly reliable. The MX5 does have the advantage of coming with a gearbox already mounted though which is a big plus.

An alternative motor could be an Suzuki G13 engine, there's a few people who have put them (along with the Jimny gearbox it mates to) into Spridgets.
Also there's someone on here who mates the Jimny gearbox to a Nissan C13 engine; Barrett Engineering I think is the company.

[jamesd1972]

I liked the 1098 in my clubby estate if that's what you have makes sense to go for it. I'd put money into front disc's if it doesn't have them purely to avoid setting up the drums !
Big smile at 50mph has real value these day I think.
James

[homersimpson]

Mar 3, 2024 15:06:55 GMT jamesd1972 said:

I liked the 1098 in my clubby estate if that's what you have makes sense to go for it. I'd put money into front disc's if it doesn't have them purely to avoid setting up the drums !
Big smile at 50mph has real value these day I think.
James

It did come with front discs, I need to have a better look at them but I would assume they are rebuildable, it also has hubs for wire wheels (but no wheels of any kind) but i'm not sure I want wire wheels on it as I prefer the look of the steel wheels with the holes around the perimeter.

Plenty of time to think about that though :-)

[nanilt35]

Hey Homer, I joined, nice build and thanks for the chat the other day.

[goldnrust]

Making some great progress here. Flying through the panel fitting stages, it's almost like you've done several cars before! haha.

I think the 1098 sounds likes a good plan. Keep that A series sound track that goes with the period and the car. You can enjoy driving genuinely flat out, feeling like a racing driver in your little sports car, without actually going too fast. And let's be honest, with the roof down it doesn't matter if you're going 40mph or 140mph. It's all about that feel.

[flyingphil]

I've got a 1098 cc 2" main bearing engine in mine, with a 731 cam and 2 x 2" SU carbs so period tuning! Mind you, a steady 75mph on the M1 at 5K from Leicester to Bradford was a bit wearing!

[homersimpson]

I've been working away on the Frogeye and have fitted the inner sill which was nice and easy with the aid of my spotwelder.



I put a couple of short seam welds around the seatbelt mounting points for a bit of extra strength.





Welded the inner silk to the jacking point in the new crossmember.





Next job is to sort out the A post and the door fit, i've posted on a Frogeye forum and a facebook page and so far it seems that my doors are correct and the apature is the wrong size, I had been hopeful it was the doors as I read that early 1958 doors were a different size and these do seem to be early doors but this may not be the case (certainly with the doors I have anyway).

This was the mess of the a post, photo doesn't show it but its wider at the bottom than the top which won't be helping but I think the extra width is on the bonnet side.



After a bit of angle grinder action :-)

[homersimpson]

Today I went to my mums for mothers day and took the opportunity to have a look at my MK2 Sprite that is in her garage and take some measurements.

In summary the doors are about the same size as the ones on the frogeye and so along with dimensions that other people with Frogeye's have kindly measured for me I've come to the conclusion that it is the door aparture that is too small for the door and not that the door is too large.

I put the front of the car on a tressle and the rear was already on a workmate bench to load it something like how it would be in use and I then decided to use some brute force and ignorance with my portapower to see what I could get to move. The door post is all loose and everything around it is fairly free whereas the rear wing is solid (ish) and so I was confident that things would move forwards and not back which from my measurements of my other sprite seemed to be what was required.



After a bit of pushing things started to move in the right direction but i've realised that I need the footwell side to be in place and for the post to be in state where I can weld it onto the foot well side to make it all strong and fit and so i've stopped pushing for the moment and started repairing the a post.



This shows how much its moved so far, the brown piece in the gap is a 4mm frame spacer for fitting doors and windows to houses:



The gap at the bottom of the door is about 8mm which is a bit too big and so I will need to lift the sill slightly which might mean adjustments to the bottom of the inner sill.



This is it with the fibreglass bonnet on and the new out a post loosely in place. You can see the gap at the bottom of the door and the bonnet is far too big but its all starting to come together now.

[Alpina99]

Fantastic work going on here and at a quick pace too,
Loving the "problem solving" as you work through each section,
Brilliant, thank you,
Nigel

[flyingphil]

Good work!

[homersimpson]

Before I can get the a post finally fixed in place I need to sort out the door.

The doors on both sides a quite rotten and need skins, I noticed at the start of the restoration that the doors only curve in one direction and so it should (in theory be easy to make a door skin - famous last words!).

As a caveat here this is only partially done and so the end result is not yet known, I might yet under up throwing this in the skip and buying a proper skin but this is what i've done so far.

Firsly I got a big piece of paper to take a template of the door skin:



Once this was done and cut out I taped it to a piece of wood and then cut it out with a circular saw for the straight edges and then a jigsaw for the curves. This gave me a wooden buck to work with:





Next I used the template to mark onto a piece of steel and added extra for the flanges, the top flange is wide because its spot welded onto where the aluminium trim sits.



This was clamped between the template and another piece of the same wood and the edges were then bent over at 90 degrees on all sides.

The wide top flange needed a bit of heat to get it to bend and its not quite right so a bit more work will be needed when it goes on the frame.

This then gave me this really odd looking panel:





I then ground down the sides and bottom flanges of the old door skin and drilled out the sport welds on the top flange and removed the old door skin:



I've trial fitted the door skin onto the frame and it does actually look really good (surprisingly), the rear flange looks a bit kinked in the picture but i'm confident this will be fine when I can hammer the flange around.

Before I can fit the skin I need to repair the bottom of the door so thats the next job.

Once thats done I can fit the skin and assuming its something like right I can then set the a post and weld that in followed by the sill.

I suspect I might end up having to grind down some of the edges and weld them up but we will see how accurate my measuring was. I don't mind having to fiddle around with it to get it to work or even to make a 2nd buck and have another go as the steel won't got to waste as I can no doubt cut it up for other repairs and a new skin is £180 so if I make two of these out of a sheet of steel thats cost me £56 then i'm quids in.

Just to add that the chipboard worktop has worked better than I expected and I thinkI could make a few off this buck if I wanted to, I should be able to make one for the other side at least by turning it over.  The chipboard came with some wall cupboards I bought for the garage so was my favourite price of free and its really solid to hammer against.  I was originally going to use 18mm MDF and while that would probably of worked it wouldn't have been as solid as this.

[homersimpson]

I had a bit more time this evening so I repaired the bottom of the door:

A little tickle with the grinder and it looks ok (from 10 feet away if you were facing the wrong way wearing sunglasses!).  A grinder and paint makes me the welder I aint!

I then fitted the skin which went quite well, the is a slight error at the rear of the door and checking the measurements and the templates i'm not quite sure how this has happened:

A quick grind of the seam for the top 2/5 of the rear seam has fixed this, I will just weld it up and grind it up as you would when altering any door gap.

The gap at the bottom looks good, in fact it looks better than it did with the original skin.

Next task will be to fix the A post in place, finish the door skin and then weld the skin onto the frame.  At the moment the new skin is trying to straighen and so the door is twisting slightly.  

I'm hoping that once fully hammer on and welded in place this will stop but if not then I might try heating it up with a paint stripping gun and if this doesn't work then moving to a blow lamp.  The issue is that the door frame is quite shallow and so doesn't have a lot of rigidity to it but of course the original skins would have been formed with the curve.

It will be interesting to see how it goes.

The fit of the bonnet to the sill isn't bad either, i'm still in two minds about the bonnet because on the one hand a Frogeye needs a steel bonnet to be worth good money when finished, on the other hand bonnets are expensive and panels to repair them are ruinously expensive.  For me I would be quite happy with a fibreglass bonnet except that they hinge from the front which means you can't have a front bumper and to me the Frogeye looks much better with a front bumper.

I did wonder if I could make a frame inside the fibreglass bonnet so that it could be hinged from the back as a steel bonnet would be, it might be an interesting project to do this and learn about fibreglassing which is something i've never done before in any depth.

[stealthstylz]

Have you seen the guy on here with the Nissan CG converted Midget (iirc?). Looks like a ace conversion, enough power to be fun without too much making it sketchy.

[rodharris83]

Mar 15, 2024 12:58:41 GMT stealthstylz said:

Have you seen the guy on here with the Nissan CG converted Midget (iirc?). Looks like a ace conversion, enough power to be fun without too much making it sketchy.

This one? link

[steve1275]

The rear hinged Frogeye bonnet is the biggest PITA I know when you have to work under it. Be careful what you wish for!

[homersimpson]

People say that but on my last one it had a proper bonnet and it wasn't any trouble to work on, I even took the engine and box out with the bonnet on.

I can see forward hinging would be better but they just look so much better to me with the bumper.