Tangye/Epco engine-lifter - refitting castors

[foxy99]

So I've had this thing for years and never actually had to use it.

Also it takes up a lot of room and you need a van to move it around so it's actually sat in a remote lock-up instead of at my barn - where my cars and stuff are.

Last year I started using Hammerite hammered finish (on other things) and soon discovered the new stuff isn't actually hammered at all.

This lead to buying some really old stuff, off Marketplace - which was only available in Violet - then someone asked if they could use the engine-lifter for something else and, long story short, it ended up sitting down by the barn outside for months and as winter struck instead of taking it back to the lock-up (4 miles away) I dragged it into the barn and this week decided to paint it with the Hammerite.

I've not got the time to sandblast it so am just removing the old paint and light rust with a wire-wheel.

Doesn't actually take long to clean the metal and takes no time to paint it and the old stuff comes up hammered right away

So I was making quick progress but then started getting fussy wanting to clean all the nooks & crannies so started unbolting bits

I wanted to get the actual Epco pump off the frame to clean all the gunk out from behind it (without disconnecting the hose) and then hit a snag as the release-rod of the pump is captive to the frame.

It can come out if you remove small roll pin(s) but I didn't have much luck with that last night and next plan is to try to get some purchase on the pin(s) by MIG welding a blob on the end or something

Just to make my life easier Imgur (photo-hosting site) have decided you can't upload new pic to existing albums anymore. You need to make a new album every time you upload - or try to move new uploads to an old album by going thru every pic you have (I have 128 pages of pics) and now I'm succeeding in adding the new ones and losing all the original ones back into the main pot .

Absolute PitA so apologies in advance if the pics go haywire



big old crane I got years and years ago



pump part made by Epco



crane appears to be by Tangye



someone wanted to use it to lift lintels



it's a bit rusty/scruffy in places



oily too




cleaning bits prior to painting




1st bits done in violet Hammerite



4 screws hold pump to base (5/16BS or 1/4W)



separating ram from boom and frame




steering tube/handle also removed for access to gunk



several nails in place of split pins suggest someone has had bits off in the past



need to remove roll-pin to separate releases-handle from pump to remove it



similar at top (plastic handle broke off)

[foxy99]

So....

I made some progress with the roll-pins

As mentioned above I thought my only hope of getting a grip on them would be by using a MIG. I tried this on the really stuck-looking one in the ferrule on top but didn't achieve anything

After that I tried tapping the other one back & forth and was sure I saw some movement so moved on to hitting it with nails thinking it would be a complete waste of time (bent nails or widening the pin) but amazingly it worked

Once the pin was out I could lift the rod and finish disconnecting the pump c/w ram and put that to one side

Buoyed by my success I moved back to the top pin and that also budged eventually. I can't however seem to get the knob off the rod although I'm sure it's a separate part. I think it might be aluminium and has bonded to the steel rod but not sure. I've doused it with some penetrating oil and will try again another day.


I also removed the front wheels for cleaning and painting. Was pleased to dicover the holes in the castings are actually oilway (for lubrication of the 'axle' as when I stripped my Epco jack a while back which had similar wheels the holes didn't open out anywhere


got roll-pin out with a nail



pump then lifted away from frame



roll-pin went thru this rod on pump. was worried about hammering too hard and damaging this part



roll-pin also removed from knob



is knob separate from rod?



side of one leg and rear of frame next to be cleaned



main boom now removed with pump & ram on RHS



front wheels removed from frame


drilling in wheel should open at other side


nail passes thru drilling in wheel (for lubrication of axle)

[colnerov]

Well done! It's not just me that has time disappear with projects that start off and finish that way.

[foxy99]

So I was back working on the crane last night after spending most of the day trying to resuscitate the Gaffer's Kubota mower (since I'm now apparently responsible for it as I connected jump-leads wrong way round a few weeks ago) then fixing the roof of the barn that I pay him nearly £4K a year in rent on

Plan was to just wizzy-wheel the remaining original-paint parts but I ended up taking the main post off the frame and removing the rear (steering) wheels.

Removing the post from the frame was pretty easy. There are 4 bolts at the front which go into holes tapped in the frame (didn't make a note of the spanner size) plus 4 longer bolts at the rear which go right thru the box-section and have a nut on the other end. You could probably get then undone with the crane standing normally but it was much easier tipped on its side. These bolts/nuts needed a 1" spanner/socket. I got by with a 26mm on one end and the correct Imperial one on the other end. The bolts weren't tight at all and all 8 had a lot of oil on them which was a bit unexpected.


Next thing to tackle was the rear wheels. These swivel and are connected by a bar which connects to something in the middle which is turned by the handle above. The connecting-bar is held to the wheel assy's with a split pin on each end.

iirc I had at least one of these wheels off a few months back when the Gaffer thought he could build steps with it (but started at the bottom). I know the wheels were stuck/seized and I freed them off but have a vague notion that I noticed the 2 didn't match and only one was easy to remove and also there were no bearings underneath but I may be wrong on that.

Anyway. From the top we just see 2 very large nuts with serrated washer under them. One nut looks original as it is domed and the other is a normal-looking one quite a bit shallower.

So how do you stop the post of the wheel assy from moving when you need to undo the nut? Well the post has a slot in the top which would need an extremely large screwdriver to hold it but I found using the edge of a bit of angle-iron was good enough to get the nut moving and somehow got it off all the way. I expected the wheel shaft to just drop out the frame but found it needed to be wound out. I suspected it has somehow worn a thin thread into the frame or it was being held up by rust.

As mentioned above there were no ball-bearings visible. There are 2 concave plates between the underside of the frame and the wheel trunnion(?) but no BBs.

Moving on to the other wheel which had the domed nut. I couldn't get any grip on the slot of the post as the nut was kinda flush with it so tried wedging the post from underneath with a screwdriver and surprisingly that seemed to work but the nut would not budge even with a large shifter on it.

I noticed the top of the post was a bit flat and figures someone had peened it over to lock the nut. This wheel seemed a bit wobbly and am sure there was a gap between the nut and the frame so my guess was that someone previous could get the post to stay still while they tightened the nut and just used a hammer instead.

I then got the angle-grinder out and tickled the top of the post so the nut could come off but even with a huge amount of pulling on the shifter it still wouldn't budge and I also couldn't understand how the post was staying still under so much strain. The screwdriver was discarded as the wheel assy was locked solid.

So I was in a bit of a pickle but figured I could sacrifice the cool domed nut and just use a plain one like on the other side.

I sliced the sides of the nut off trying to not actually hit the male threads on the component and hey presto the nut came off. Only a slight graze on one side of the threaded thing.

So now I had the nut off but the post/spindle/shaft was locked solid in the frame. I hammered to opposite direction on the wheel-frame underneath and eventually it got moving and finished it off by hand. When It first started moving I heard a sort of plinking noise and then saw numerous ball-bearings dropping out from where the wheel lives.

So that was the whole thing dismantled (apart from the turny bit in middle that connects steering-handle to metal bar) and it was too late to do any more work.

I can now see both wheel assys are identical. Just one had a different nut on it and also that the posts are actually threaded into the frame. I knew from early on that the wheels swivel independently on the posts but had no idea the posts don't swivel. Makes sense really as the nuts would just come loose if the posts swivelled. That also explains why I was able to get so much leverage on the nut (despite it not moving). Will be interesting to see if it's easy to get them back in the frame and get locking-nuts on without the posts unwinding.

Anyway. I'm just about to search online for new domed nuts (or 1 normal nut). I think it's a 12TPI Whitworth thread and a 1/2" diameter.



crane getting a lot lighter for tipping over to access nuts etc



central post removed from base/frame



base is made from 4 bits of box-section with strengthening plates in middle and plates on top to hide gaps



odd nuts. post has slot in top to to hold/turn it




nut had to be sacrificed to get 2nd wheel off frame




turns out frame is threaded for wheel-posts



EDIT: I had noted the diameter of the 'shaft' of the wheel assys to be 3/4" and then, using my trusty Whitworth thread gauge, established the nuts were 12TPI but was thrown by markings on the 12TPI blade which said 1/2 and 9/16 so spent a while searching for 1/2" BSW nuts and even found domed ones called Coneloc but was puzzled as to why they all seemed to take a smaller spanner size than mine. The nuts from the crane are 1 1/4" AF but the listings were showing things like 9/16 spanner size.

So, luckily, before committing to buy I checked again and now see that a 12TPI x 3/4" fastener is actually 3/4 BSF. Or it could be 13/16" BSF which is 0.81" diameter (instead of 0.75") and also 12TPI.

I'm going to double-check the diameter of the post thing before ordering. Pretty sure I need the 3/4" ones tho

[foxy99]

So no pics this time as I dropped my camera out of the loft of some flats I was working on (on Friday) and it'll be a week or so till I get another one off Ebay.

The price of 2nd-hand digital cameras seems to have rocketed recently. I go thru a ridiculous amount of them in my roofing/gutter work, as they get grit in lens-mechanism, and used to pick them up for buttons but apparently youngsters now want them for retro reason of TikTok or something.

Anyway I was back working on the crane today and have now ordered some hardware for it.

So, yeah. I double-checked the diameter of the threaded-post on the rear castor assys and am satisfied the thread is 3/4" BSF and have ordered one nut - for just over a fiver. I could have got 3 (or more) for a similar price, from other sellers, but I'll never use them so it's just more clutter .'. went for the less value-for-money option.

My little 5/16BS slash 1/4W socket arrived today and fitted great on the bolts which held the pump to the base but I noticed the other day I seem to have lost one of those bolts. Also noticed they didn't screw easily (by hand) back into the threads on the plate the pump sits on

Having a closer look at the threads on the 3 remaining ones I could see they were sort of deformed/stretched at the end so were almost definitely the wrong size - despite all matching and presumably been there for a loooong time.

I have an Imperial tap/die set which is UNC/UNF sizes and nothing it it seemed to match the 5/16" diameter of the screws (as far as TPI was concerned). Also have and also an Imperial thread file and none of the various TPI ranges fitted the screws. 24 TPI ws nearly right but a bit too fine. So I was then thinking 'how am I going to work out what size the threads in the plate are? are they same as the unknown ones on the bolts or something different?'

I knew the bores were 5/16" and there were two taps that diameter in my set (18TPI UNC and 24TPI UNF). I found the UNC tap went down the threads with just finger-pressure so it was safe to say the threads were ok and the bolts were wrong.

While I was there I cleaned an example of each of the other bolts removed, to take home and check exact type. I also degreased the castor assys including the 32 ball-bearings that were on one and took them home too.

After that I just carried on cleaning more unpainted bits of the crane (and an old Epco trolley-jack I'm also refurbishing) including getting into the nooks & crannies that the grinder won't reach. I used a pointed wire-brush on a drill for this. Even at full speed it's amazing how much slower the drill spins than the grinder.

Ended the night painting the newly-cleaned bits then home with various cleaned bits to examine before ordering parts online

So I checked everything with my Whitworth thread-gauge and vernier caliper and jotted down the results:

• bolts/setscrews that held pump to base - 5/16" x 22TPI x 0.8"
• short bolts that secure front of post-plate to base/legs - 1/2" x 12TPI x 0.8" List item 2
• long bolts c/w nuts that secure rear of post-plate to base/legs 5/8" x 14TPI x 4.4"
• ball-bearings for castor assys - 1/4"
• threads in base for securing pump - 5/16 x 18TPI
• castor posts - 3/4" x 12TPI

A 'refresher course' Googling about Unified threads and British Standard threads reminded me that UNC and BSW threads have the same diameters to TPI, so my 5/16" x 18TPI threads could be either 5/16 UNC or 5/16 Whitworth. When I checked the info above it told me the other fasteners were as follows:

• 5/16 BSF
• 1/2 BSW
• 5/8 BSF
• 3/4 BSF

It's unlikely that the mystery threads would be UNC (Unified) if the others were British Standard (BSF or BSW) so I've decided the pump-to-base bolts should be 5/16W and have ordered 4 at 7/8" long (a fraction longer than the rogue ones) for just over a fiver (posted).

Also ordered 2 sets of 18 ball-bearings which was just under £8.

Hopefully by the time the stuff arrives I'll have everything in 2 coats of paint and a working camera.

EDIT (pics added)



rogue 5/16 BSF screws that held pump to base. note damaged threads at end



1/2 BSW screws which secure front of post assy to base



5/8 BSF bolt c/w nut which secure rear of post assy to base



bearing races which go between rear castors and underside of frame


32 x 1/4" ball-bearing in this pair of races



(RHS) rear castor assy with top-nut removed



nut is 3/4 BSF and post has slot in in for holding when nut is tightened/loosened



arm welded to one side of castor which links to bar to steering-handle



other plain side of castor



wheel axles are peened/staked so not easy to remove



castor swivels on threaded post and there is hole for lubrication

[foxy99]

So I have found one of my old (discarded?) cameras and it seems to be working fine so have taken a few pics and edited the post above

[foxy99]

Got a little more done over the weekend.

Was only there for 3 hours on Sunday and spent most of that cleaning bits from my Epco jack (a different thread) and then did more cleaning of the crane parts.

Primarily the boom and its hooks. The one which hangs downwards (and swivels) has a large nut holding it on but the nut is actually welded on so am just cleaning the assy as best I can without grinding off the nut.

Also cleaned the last bit of the base (rear vertical between the legs) but ran out of time to get paint on but have some of the parts painted on previous visit.

Fasteners should be here and day and I can get the whole thing assembled again

One small observation is that I seem to be finding silver paint under the original (?) grey/green stuff. This is probably some sort of primer/undercoat but I suppose the thing could have been painted before. It's unlikely tho as it would be silver under the decals or they would have more likely been painted over.




awkward bits of main post now cleaned and painted



part of pump painted




am finding silver paint under the original colour



cleaning the boom



this hook assy swivels but can't (easily) be dismantled


nut which holds hook to boom-extension is welded

[foxy99]

Ok. So my bits and bobs have arrived and I guess that means am ready to put the crane parts back together.

Naturally there's the usual pics and examination of the new parts.

First up are the new screws that mount the pump to the base of the central post. As explained above the ones that have been there for decades were the right diameter but too fine a thread. So for £5.69 I have 4 new ones (5/16 BSW) and they look just right. The only strange thing is that the heads are the same size as the ones that came out. I'm not re-Googling all this but it was my understanding that same size BSF & BSW fasteners had different-sized heads. As the recently-purchased socket says it fits either 5/16 BS of 1/4W.

Next are the ball-bearings. I was quite surprised at the cost of these (£8.48 for 2 packs of 18) as am sure you used to be able to get small tubs of ball-bearings (Weldtite?) from bike shops for buttons. Like 200 of them or whatever. Anyway I had to measure them as I had seen in some buyer-reviews that the ones supplied didn't agree the size advertised. These look to be bang-on 0.25"

Lastly the new nut (£5.43) for one of the rear castors: Dimension across flats is the same, altho this doesn't really matter. The TPI is same (12). This isn't the easiest thing to capture on camera but any 'looseness' in the interface is to do with the gauge tilting a bit when pic was taken, rather than the teeth not meshing perfectly with the threads.

One strange thing is that the diameter of the inside thread isn't exactly the same between the new and old nuts. You can get tables which show what the minor & major diameters of the male & female threads should be but I wasn't looking for this as when you use the vernier internally you need to add a certain amount (which is stamped on the tool) on to the reading to compensate for the thickness of the prongs at the end. I was just looking for an equal reading.

Purely for simplicity I could see on the old nut that closest measurement on the scale was 9.1mm so decided to keep on that scale. Measuring the new nut it was nearer 9.3mm on the scale. This could be something to do with Whitworth threads having the top of the peak missing but (again without re-Googling the subject) iirc there was no other thread existing with a 12TPI x 0.75 thread. It's also weird the old thread is narrower as you's expect that one to have become worn and bigger than when it was new.

I'm sure the new one will fit fine. Just an observation



new bolts



new beside one of the old ones. same diameter, a little longer and 18TPI instead of 22TPI



heads are same size which was unexpected



new bearings and nut for the one castor



bearings are right size (1/4")



new nut will take same socket/spanner as old (domed) nut



old nut was 12TPI



as is new one



minor diameter of thread on old nut showing up as 9.1mm on scale (this is not true reflection of actual size)


whilst reading on scale for new nut is 9.32mm

[foxy99]

So, yesterday, I headed to the barn with all the new bits and pieces planning to clean'paint any final bits and perhaps get the wheels and castors on.

It went pretty much to plan apart from got nothing re-assembled

However I was super-chuffed about getting the final bit apart: the rod (for operating the pump-valve) and its knurled know are now separated with no real damage.

Also I weighed the thing on my bathroom scales

So what occurred?

Well after paying the barn-rent and getting away from the Gaffer, who wanted X, Y & Z fixed, it started pissin' doon but I ignored the water blowing in on my parts and did more wire-wheeling and got back to trying to get the knob off the aforementioned rod. I had previously tried just slamming in down against it's bracket (welded to the main post) thinking this would knock the know up and off but no dice so I started hitting it with hammer and chisel whilst trying to hold the rod firmly in my 3rd hand but all I was doing was making marks on the underside of the knob

I was just about to get the angle-grinder out and slice it up one side, figuring it needs some sort of new knob anyway, when I had a last try with a bigger, blunter chisel and it came free

What I was really surprised about is that the roll-pin hole is virtually at the top of the rod and the top of the rod looks like someone's been at it before with a file or grinder.

I am starting to think this crane has been tinkered with more than any other one in existence. Who would have had the need to do that!?

Anyway with the rod released from it's bracket I set about straightening it and it went fine. I will also need to straighten the bracket on the post now. This is currently bent downwards and I think someone did that deliberately to compensate for the (shorter) bent rod.

Before getting down to painting the final few areas I set about weighing the different parts on my (glass) bathroom scales and it went pretty well. Scales not broken and got pretty reliable results.

I didn't weigh the pump and ram as they are still attached by a hydraulic hose and that gets too strained if the pump ram isn't supported on some wood when the pump is sitting on the floor. Basically too unwieldy to put on the scales.

Also forgot to weigh the extension bit that slides in and out the boom. I reckon those bits together would be another 3 or 4 stone.



knurled knob eventually came off its rod



why is this like this?



rod released from frame and straightened out



main post weighs just under 5st



boom c/w vertical extension also weighs just under 5st



front wheels plus bits n bobs weighs 1st 4lbs



castors/hooks/bolts weigh 1st 3lbs



base weighed 8st 10lbs iirc



more of pump cleaned for painting




rear rail of base finally painted

So. That was basically it for yesterday and I've just finished the first small tin of pukka-pukka original (Violet) Hammerite, which I think may be from late 60s or early 70s. It's went quite a long way and I now have a bigger tin of same but with very early version of the more recognisable branding on the outside.

And it looks like the crane weighs around 25st. So it would be fine to transport in the back of your car as it's just like having 2 normal-weight adults in the back seat. Or one huge one

[foxy99]

Ok. So I was back on it tonight, after a pleasant day (good weather) fixing the roof of the barn, and only being interrupted by the Gaffer for 1 hour

So the plan was just to get the castors on. I put plenty grease on the races (don't ask me why it's blue but I've had it for years and it's Mobil, so presumably a good brand, and will be fine for something that is only going to move very slowly on just a few occasions) then counted out 32 balls and stuck them in then, before putting the races on top of the castors, practised screwing the castors into the frame.

This might sound strange but remember the threaded part can't be held from underneath and it's difficult to get something in the slot on top before it comes up high enough.

Strangely I found that spinning the castor sort of encouraged the thread to revolve and you eventually get it all the way up.

This is when the first issue came up... On the RHS castor (which had no ball-bearings and probably a replacement nut) the threads are worn at the top and bottom. It feels like it's threading in nice then goes loose. There's no way I'm delaying things by getting a new part made so I figured just putting the nit and lock-washer on would be enough to keep it tight.

I then moved to the other castor which has a good thread all the way. It wound in fine and I put the nut and washer i=on but didn't fully tighten things because even with the nut off the castor wouldn't swivel with the post threaded right in to the frame.

As I said a while back it looks like the post should be screwed right into the frame and the castor can just swivel around on the lower part of the post. It seems no tho. If the post is screwed right home the races must be squeezed too tight to allow movement. Backing things off a bit would allow the castor to swivel. Surely a basic tool like this doesn't need careful adjustment like with taper wheel bearings on a car for instance.

It then struck me that the post hadn't been lubricated inside the frame of the castor so I took the castor off again and as I wasn't able to get grease in easily just drizzled oil down in between the parts. This got the castor swivelling nice and when I screwed it back in it swivelled better but still too tight if screwed right home. So I guess you have to nearly screw it right home then out the lockwasher and nut on but if there is slack at the bottom how are the nut and washer going to lock? The post could possibly still swivel a fraction then the nut and washer would be loose.

After this I decided to oil the other castor and noticed this one has a lubrication hole in the frame (for the post). I was sure I'd seen this feature on the castors but as there wasn't one on the LH castor I thought I was mistaken.Bit weird to have it on one and not the other> Ialso found on this castor it was hard to get the nut to lock and for the castor to still swivel. Even with the post oiled and plenty grease in the races.

So. A bit of a puzzler but at least the castors are back on and I can fiddle about with them a bit more to get the best balance between tightness and free swivelling

Next visit I'll put the front wheels on and start assembling the crane itself



packing the castor races with grease



ball bearings added



thread on post of RH castor is no good at bottom. middle is fine



post oiled so it swivels easily inside frame of castor. this castor has lubrication-point drilled in frame but other one doesn't