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Jul 20, 2006 12:31:23 GMT
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sad state of affair's here that cars are being nicked full stop but lets be fair here there are some stolen for bangers but truthfully its only a hand full the majority are taken straight to the crusher and gone forever or striped for hard to get spares then crushed
i think the scrap business as a whole is to blame last year the government had a chance to sort the situation out with the end of life directive but backed down to pressure from the big boy metal merchants
my local car breakers has gone out of business because of the fly by night cowboys stealing/lairing and generally being dishonest on how they go about getting cars it has got to the point where they was even taking the cars with council stickers on before he got there to collect them
regarding nicked cars used as bangers i feel its time that the promoters did there part a simple system to enforce is ask to see the log book /proof of ownership when booking in and when the car is presented for scrutenering a note of drivers name car and vin number is taken to be checked against dvla records if the driver is unable to produce these items don't allow him to race
carrying on with slagging each other off like the way each party is. Will produce NO progress to-wards a solution as I have read 8 pages of the thread with not one suggestion of a way forward
head down waiting for the slagging to commence
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Last Edit: Jul 20, 2006 12:33:31 GMT by sabre309
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Jul 20, 2006 12:38:10 GMT
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carrying on with slagging each other off like the way each party is. Will produce NO progress to-wards a solution as I have read 8 pages of the thread with not one suggestion of a way forward Great first post... The way forwards were suggested last month when the Datsun SSS Coupe got bangered. The over riding suggestion was that organisers check the Vin plates with police/DVLA to make sure that none of the cars are stolen.. Apparently this was too much work.. I'm sure you are right that more cars end up in the crusher than end up on the banger track... a lot of Datsuns went for export too. I think what has highlighted the bangers at the moment is that if someone steals a Mk2 Granny and bangers it it'll be lost in a sea of them so very little way to prove it. However when the car that is stolen and bangered is one of six (or less) in the country, then it becomes clearer where its origins lay. I have faith that something constructive can come out of all this... I just wish people had been a bit more level headed in their responses rather than just needlessly slinging mud at each other. It gets us no where.
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Jul 20, 2006 13:01:01 GMT
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Hi sabre309, welcome.
No progress to speak of but we really do need to get on if theres gonna be any, then we can go from there. Only few of us have the spare time/effort to effectively get involved properly, but networks like this help. Most of us are on the same side i'm sure!
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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Jul 20, 2006 13:08:00 GMT
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Sorry, i don't wish to cause any offence, but Banger Racing IMO, is senseless vandalism, and IS a disgrace to be called a form of motorsport at all. It is not Motorsport, it is brainless dodgems for adults. quote] we get a buzz out of racing old cars that are worth nothing because they are so rotten, bit like you lot must when restoring your cars and looking at the hard work you have put in to them. Just because Banger racers 'kill' cars don't mean they are not intrested/owners of classics. I'm intrested in XR3i's (ok so not a classic) n also enjoy spending my money buying stuff and hopefully soon buying a XR3 (cant at moment due to insurence costs). You want us Banger racer's to help you out, but why should we if you are going to call us all the names under the sun? and slag are hobby off. Isnt it about time we started working together and trying to find the scum that nicked this car? Cheers Chris.
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Jul 20, 2006 13:19:37 GMT
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Chris, no offence, but until members of YOUR community work to clean up YOUR sport, it's gonna continue.
Read back through the various postings, you'll see that I often fight the banger boys corner, but I won't do so anymore till SOMEONE and I don't care who, from YOUR community does something to stop this kind of thing from happening again.
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The lurker formerly known as Cappuccinocruiser.. or wedgedout..
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Jul 20, 2006 13:24:08 GMT
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You want us Banger racer's to help you out, but why should we if you are going to call us all the names under the sun? and slag are hobby off. Isnt it about time we started working together and trying to find the scum that nicked this car? Yup I agree with this,.. I'm hoping people will take a step back and learn to try and work together. Banger racers need to do something to improve the image of the sport. And the classic car community needs to understand that it can't save every car... How many Cressidas etc. got bangered because the classic car community wasn't interested in them?? Except now all those cars are suddenly a huge loss because people have woken up to to how funky they are (thanks to Rmad )...
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Jul 20, 2006 13:30:07 GMT
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how can we? we are offered a cheap car for racing, we buy it with are hard earned cash, and race it. We don't no its stolen untill this happens. The way both 'communitys' are working is going to get us no where, isnt it about time we started working together? Chris. As previously stated, the "how can we" argument doesn't work,.. cars all have a unique identifier. These can be recorded and checked pre-meeting. Drivers can be banned from circuits for racing stolen cars. Information can be checked with owners clubs etc. and thats just off the top of my head. I think one of the main frustrations at this end of things is the lack of action on the bangers part. So people start up the ridiculous guilt by association argument (which is like saying everyone at RTTS was guilty of stealing daFandango's Beetle a few years back!). I'd also like to raise the question that has played on my mind over this and the last one ,.. where were the police? This car shouldn't have got near a banger track, simply because the police had months to try and find it. Same with the Datsun. What are the people that should be dealing with this doing about it? We can work with the banger community to attempt to come to some arrangement that should hopefully stop stolen cars going on the track (even if they are beyond repair when they get there)... But the banger community needs to do its bit too. This would be a great step forward.
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Jul 20, 2006 13:32:38 GMT
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I'd also like to raise the question that has played on my mind over this and the last one ,.. where were the police? This car shouldn't have got near a banger track, simply because the police had months to try and find it. Same with the Datsun. What are the people that should be dealing with this doing about it?
We can work with the banger community to attempt to come to some arrangement that should hopefully stop stolen cars going on the track (even if they are beyond repair when they get there)... But the banger community needs to do its bit too. This would be a great step forward.[/quote]
Totaly agree with that, the police are useless when it comes to cars been stolen, I'm a member of a xr forum and 1 of the user's had a very smart XR3i that had been stolen, the owner found it burnt out down some country lane the police did nothing.
Chris.
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Last Edit: Jul 20, 2006 13:35:23 GMT by chris179
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Jul 20, 2006 13:39:31 GMT
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Sorry, i don't wish to cause any offence, but Banger Racing IMO, is senseless vandalism, and IS a disgrace to be called a form of motorsport at all. It is not Motorsport, it is brainless dodgems for adults. Our varied thoughts on banger racing shouldnt really come into this at all. if they are all legit cars off to the scrappers cos they are rotted or despirately unloved or wanted by anyone. I don't see why they shouldnt be raced for fun! A bloke on a forum got a nice solid early 1.6 mk2 sierra (virtual mk1 in spec), it was brown too i think! he wanted the gearbox, then noone wanted the car for free on any forum, this is sad, it was picked up by the scrappies truck and roof crushed, never used again, i thought damn i'd rather it'd been raced! in reality i'd of put it back on the road! We need to drop the; is banger racing right or wrong? debate its not helping IMO.
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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Jul 20, 2006 13:49:22 GMT
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Sorry, i don't wish to cause any offence, but Banger Racing IMO, is senseless vandalism, and IS a disgrace to be called a form of motorsport at all. It is not Motorsport, it is brainless dodgems for adults. Our varied thoughts on banger racing shouldnt really come into this at all. if they are all legit cars off to the scrappers cos they are rotted or despirately unloved or wanted by anyone. I don't see why they shouldnt be raced for fun! A bloke on a forum got a nice solid early 1.6 mk2 sierra (virtual mk1 in spec), it was brown too i think! he wanted the gearbox, then noone wanted the car for free on any forum, this is sad, it was picked up by the scrappies truck and roof crushed, never used again, i thought damn i'd rather it'd been raced! in reality i'd of put it back on the road! We need to drop the; is banger racing right or wrong? debate its not helping IMO. i agree that the is Banger racing right or wrong needs to be dropped. Shame about the Sierra too. i must admit i do like ford's from the 80's - 90's Chris.
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,508
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Jul 20, 2006 13:49:42 GMT
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As another suggestion how about a website or something dedicated to stolen cars. This would ideally be regularly browsed by both the classic fraternity and banger racers - preferably some of the promoters. Then everyone knows what they are looking for. If the banger community really want to help then as soon as a known stolen car (especially if a rare one of the saame type) turns up at a meet like the SSS or this wagon questions can be asked, the car isn't raced and the police are involved. I too don't see how the "classic community" can do any more than alert everyone as to what to look for. If my car got stolen I wouldn't know where to start looking as far as banger circuits etc go. Its gotta be the honest racers that help us all out by spotting these cars and proper reprisals should be in place for any criminal element involved whether racers or not. If a racer was banned for using a stolen car (whether he knew at the time or not) then I bet they'd all check their cars a bit better. Sorry for the slightly incoherent ramble. I'm a bit hot
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable.
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Jul 20, 2006 13:55:07 GMT
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a website would be a good idea, and i'll think you will find that if you tell most Banger drivers about a car thats gone missing they will keep a eye out for it and help the best they can.
Chris.
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Jul 20, 2006 14:13:26 GMT
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woah, this has rattled on a bit hasn't it.
Here the thing, we can quickly ascertain if its the same car or not if Ian can tell us what the VIN is. Or even just the registration number...
If its the same car then it was a rust free California import recently, loads of rare options. IIRC it just sold for £4000 couple of months before it got stolen. So £100 seems rather cheap to me...
I don't know Ian so I'm not about to make acusations about his character, but if I could turn up cars like that for £100 legitimately - even with some body damage I could make a nice living selling them back on!
I think someone needs to be policing whats going on and the clue is in the name. Police... V5s needed to race is one way, but theres hooky ways of obtaining V5s for cars or using one off other cars and one grey A60 Cambridge looks pretty much like another...
A website might be an answer. A "hot list" circulated to event promoters, but then the onus is on them to use it and is it in their immediate interest or would they rather turn a blind eye?
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Last Edit: Jul 20, 2006 14:16:47 GMT by akku
1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jul 20, 2006 14:20:55 GMT
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I don't know Ian so I'm not about to make acusations about his character, but if I could turn up cars like that for £100 legitimately - even with some body damage I could make a nice living selling them back on! Exactly. If it's legit, and has a street value of £4k, what would you do? Smash it up for 20 minutes fun? Or punt it on & have a couple of weeks in the sun? I know what I'd do. Surely the answer to this is simple. We know that the criminal element of the sport is a tiny MINORITY. Which means all these honest chaps who get royally pee'd off with our 'slagging' are the MAJORITY. Majority rules, right? So work together. Next time a known thief or someone who is clearly handling stolen goods turns up to race where you are racing, how about a bit of solidarity............. Put your (legit) cars back on your trailers and lorries and go home. Don't race. Put your foot down. Make a stand for the sport tha tyou feel so passionately about. If you ALL do it, there will be alot of unhappy spectators. And that equates to an unhappy organiser / promoter - if they are getting no revenue, will they let the situation continue? No. You'd find that pretty quickly systems would be put in force. No-one is interested in watching one windowless stolen classic being driven round and round on it's own are they? I roundly expect to be told that this is a stupid idea, but it seems pretty clear-cut to me. >
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Jul 20, 2006 14:30:27 GMT
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As another suggestion how about a website or something dedicated to stolen cars. This would ideally be regularly browsed by both the classic fraternity and banger racers - preferably some of the promoters. Then everyone knows what they are looking for. If the banger community really want to help then as soon as a known stolen car (especially if a rare one of the saame type) turns up at a meet like the SSS or this wagon questions can be asked, the car isn't raced and the police are involved. Pretty good suggestion I reckon Seth. Rather than alienating them with some of the sentiments expressed above, banger racers could actually be a great ally in helping find stolen classics – not because of the assumption that any given car was stolen to be raced, but simply because the nature of their sport means they spend more time in scrapyards etc than we do. Regrettably I don’t think the Police will be of much assistance – there was no great outcry when old Japanese cars were being stolen for export, why will this be different? This despite the fact that the people actually carrying out such crimes are probably involved in other offences too. In the recent past I was in touch with someone at a big promoters – I’ll try to make contact with them and see if there’s any kind of awareness of this within the sport’s organisation.
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Jul 20, 2006 14:35:32 GMT
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The legal owner of the car is on holiday at the mo so I can't get the VIN off him for a while.
Is it interesting that the other Shark team car raced on the 16th is in the yard (as of yesterday anyway) but the Plymouth appears not to be? Perhaps it is innocently enough parked somewhere where visitors couldn't see it easily. Visitors were suspicious that the Plymouth has been bailed already top destroy evidence.
I'm not accusing anyone of anything. If the Plymouth is still existant then lets see the VIN and clear up 100% whether its the same car or not.
Assuming it to be the same car I'm sure the owner would appreciate the remains being put on one side until his return off holiday so as to assist with the police investigation into its theft.
If the car has been bought in good faith I'm sure theres no problem in them doing this as an act of good faith in turn.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jul 20, 2006 14:37:00 GMT
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Which begs the question,.. who will make and manage the site?
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Jul 20, 2006 14:59:53 GMT
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Is it interesting that the other Shark team car raced on the 16th is in the yard (as of yesterday anyway) but the Plymouth appears not to be? Perhaps it is innocently enough parked somewhere where visitors couldn't see it easily. Visitors were suspicious that the Plymouth has been bailed already top destroy evidence.
There was 3 shark cars racing, 1 is going to be raced again Mk1 granada, and the other 2 the plymouth and a 4r have probly been scraped by now (was very damaged), so that explans why you have only seen 1 Shark car.
Chris.
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Last Edit: Jul 20, 2006 15:00:26 GMT by chris179
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Jul 20, 2006 15:07:20 GMT
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It will be in that scrappers then wont it. PS as someone mentioned, its mad we get the book thrown at us for minor offences on the road - or off for that matter, that the police don't give a stuff when cars are nicked. car on a transporter? that'll be organised crime then, and probs the same people doing a load more wrong doings!
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,858
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Stolen! 1972 Plymouth wagonbstardchild
@bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member 71
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Jul 20, 2006 15:11:43 GMT
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I have faith that something constructive can come out of all this... I just wish people had been a bit more level headed in their responses rather than just needlessly slinging mud at each other. It gets us no where. I wrote all I felt I needed to write in the previous threads and don't see the point of repeating it all again....... But I don't see any point in critisising banger racers for their sport - it's their sport if you don't like it or understand it accept it........ 99.9% of them I am sure are honest - the 0.1% unfortunately are tarnishing the image of them all but we shouldn't reject/drive off the few that are coming on here with thoughtless comments/insults
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