LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,650 
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Took my pads out last night and applied some copperslip (a fair amount) to the backs of them to stop the squealing I've been putting up with for a few weeks.
Everything was fine, went on a run last night no problems. This morning all was well, until about 10 miles into the journey the car started to slow down, smoke billowing etc.
Managed to limp into the works carpark, front brake seized solid.
Gonna go take a looksee in a few hours when its cooled down, any pointers on what I can do with limited tools (read none)
A colleague says copperslip can cause the seals to expand?
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Was the problem squealing or rattling?
I'd try prying the pad back off the disc with a screwdriver or suchlike to see if the piston has seized.
Also double check that the pads are in correctly and have not somehow jammed?
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Last Edit: Jun 5, 2008 8:01:35 GMT by gtd2000
Tell it like it is.... NOT how it should be  |
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,650
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They were squeeling. Seems likely i'll be getting recovered and trying to find some new seals  |
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DutyFreeSaviour
Europe
Back For More heartbreak and disappointment.....
Posts: 2,944
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Yup - check the anti-squeal shims and the spring clips. I put mine in on the spit first time and the spring retainer was rotted out worse than I thought, it fractured under my finger pressure to put in the split pins and I didn't notice - first use of brakes had the pads move and all hell broke loose! Luckily not too quick and wide back lane  If everything is located as it should be, then sticking piston or collapsed flexi pipe could be the cause..... clutch pipe did similar and I could apply clutch, but fuid couldn't return so locked it on....... |
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Back from the dead..... kind of
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mercmad
Posted a lot
Flush Hard,it's a long way to McDonalds.
Posts: 1,740
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take your brake hoses off and check they are clear. If they are over 6 years old they need replacing anyway.
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Many years ago I changed my driving style to cope with rising fuel prices; I have now reached the stage where I am contemplating keeping my eyes shut in order to lower wind resistance.
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,650
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Just been out and had allt he pads out etc, there free again now. The only thing i can think thats caused it is the new coppergrease expanding between the rattle shim and the pad surface, pushing the already tight (I need to rebuild the calipers) pads against the discs!
Ah well, i'll be able to get her home tonight and get em rebuilt!
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Tim
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,340
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on a related note - should there be a return spring on front discs - the ones on my car didnt so i just replaced them as is, but just seems weird having nothing to pull the pads off of the disc
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definitely take a look at the hoses. will sound bizzare, but my front brakes seized on on the amazon about 6 months ago. turned out that a tiny piece of plastic had found its way into the front hose and was blocking the end of it!
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Remade In Australia
thereimaginarium.com.au
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when a brake hose collapses inside it becomes a one way valve effectively letting you pump up the brake but not letting it off.
I have NEVER heard of copperslip affecting brake pads-seals..
I would clean it all up drive it till it starts to do it again (round and round the block near home though) and then try releasing the brake nipple onthe locked wheel, if there is a sudden release of fluid then you know its your hose...
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on a related note - should there be a return spring on front discs - the ones on my car didnt so I just replaced them as is, but just seems weird having nothing to pull the pads off of the disc The shape of the seal causes the piston to retract slightly when you release the pressure Copperslip wont expand when hot, nor will it affect the seals in the caliper. Cant think of much else really apart from a siezed caliper or a collapsed flexi. Were the pads new or did they have some wear on them? |
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Mr S
Posted a lot
10-4 Good buddy.
Posts: 2,654
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Copperslip *DOES* affect the seals in the pistons as it is an oil based grease - if you remove the pistons and reassemble them with copperslip it causes the seals to swell up never to return to their original size! If you're simply putting it on the back of the pads, then it should be fine.
I have first hand experience of this from rebuilding motorbike calipers - I now use proper rubber grease as that is the only thing that doesn't affect the rubber seals. When putting copperslip on brake parts, it's important that you only use a very thin smear on the back of the pads, it helps reduce rattles and squeaks.
All the bike (and a couple of car) calipers that I've rebuilt have siezed due to corrosion getting behind the inner seal (per piston) in the caliper. The only way to sort this is to remove the piston, remove the seals, clean out behind them with various scrapy tools/small wire wheels, reassemble with rubber grease and push the pistons back in by hand. If you need something more than your thumbs to press the piston in, then there's something wrong!!
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,650
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Yup, the copperslip def caused the problem (due to me already knackered calipers) It was expanding, pushing the pad against the disc. Cleaned it all off and drove home last night without issue...
Its prob cause i put it between the pad and the shim rather than just the pad and the piston.
Oh, it also attacks seals badly, as said above, i've been doing some reading!
I'm rebuilding the calipers this Sunday, so fingers crossed i'll be able to stop with no issues...
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This is interesting, I changed the discs and pads on the vanette last weekend and they were a little snug going in. Obviously when they heated up and expanded they started to bind. I also put copper slip on the back on the pad, between the pad and clips and also on the piston thinking what the heck! I took the pads back off and filed the edges down a little and they are fine now.
Surely the copper slip cant expand enough to cause this, far more likely to be poorly fitting pads?
Also you would only have got copperslip on the dust seal rather than the piston seal and that isnt going to make anything bind?
Having said that I think I will be removing again to get rid of the copperslip on the piston though just to be sure.....
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Last Edit: Jun 6, 2008 9:33:44 GMT by danblez
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CIH
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,466
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Did you guys clean up the caliper carrier where the pads sit ? There would probably be a lot of corrosion or general wibblepoo which should be wire brushed/filed away. I doubt copper slip alone would cause seizure but you only want to use a thin film as it would probably attract dust if you pile it on.
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Copperslip is grease. Grease is soft, it's a very viscous liquid. When it gets hot it expands. Because it is liquid it will flow away from the area. It can't push against a pad hard enough to apply the brakes, that's just ludicrous speak.
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mercmad
Posted a lot
Flush Hard,it's a long way to McDonalds.
Posts: 1,740
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Heres a tip
DON'T ALLOW GREASE OR OIL ANYWHERE NEAR BRAKE COMPONENTS!!!!
Grease or oil cuases brakes to grab,and other dangerous symptoms. If you want to quieten squeeling discs,clean the disc rotor surface ( brakekleen and emory ) cut a hacksaw width groove in the pads at right angles to the disc rotation and smear silicone sealer on the BACK of the pad so it sticks against the piston and stops vibrating.
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Last Edit: Jun 6, 2008 10:25:12 GMT by mercmad
Many years ago I changed my driving style to cope with rising fuel prices; I have now reached the stage where I am contemplating keeping my eyes shut in order to lower wind resistance.
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,650
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Copperslip is grease. Grease is soft, it's a very viscous liquid. When it gets hot it expands. Because it is liquid it will flow away from the area. It can't push against a pad hard enough to apply the brakes, that's just ludicrous speak. You'd think, but then it caused it on my car, now its all cleaned off they work fine (well as fine as they can) The pads have been rubbing the disc whilst the brakes are off due to the calipers being partially seized though, so it only needed a small amount of pressure to press them against the disc! |
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YOU HADNT TWISTED THE CALIPER WHEN YOU PUT IT BACK TOGETHER
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YOU HADNT TWISTED THE CALIPER WHEN YOU PUT IT BACK TOGETHER Had he not? ;D |
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Strange innit used copperslip for 23 years and never ever had a problem  WD (the usuall way to free a sticking caliper is aboslute death to the seals, makes em go all spongy but never ever had trouble with CS? But then i only ever use a thin smear on the back of the pads, the pistons i only ever assemble with brake fluid never anything else. In fact i think i've pretty much use copperslip on every set of pads i've done over the last 20+ years mainly between the pad and shim but have used it direct between the pad and piston on more than a few setups where the shim is missing or fecked. I guess you used too much? a thin smear is enough to change the squeel from audable to inaudable  |
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