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Sept 6, 2009 19:33:39 GMT
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hey, this is an awesome project, really enjoyed reading through that Its nice to see people going that extra 10% to turn out a really special car. I'll keep an eye on this with eager anticipation!
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Sept 6, 2009 19:45:55 GMT
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Great work
When you fit a new wheel arch could you not extend it further out by joining it on the lip, and therfore creating a wider steel arch.
This will keep the stock look, but give you that extra clearance
Not sure if I have explained that very well
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johnrh
Part of things
Posts: 958
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Sept 6, 2009 21:01:28 GMT
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To show what I meant about pulling out the lower edge of the wheelarch... I'm sure this 144 has had that done. John
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johnrh
Part of things
Posts: 958
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Sept 6, 2009 21:06:33 GMT
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Great work When you fit a new wheel arch could you not extend it further out by joining it on the lip, and therfore creating a wider steel arch. This will keep the stock look, but give you that extra clearance Not sure if I have explained that very well Yes, thanks, I know what you mean. But the main problem is that, as things are, my wheel would hit the flat part of the wing, above the flared part of the arch. So I need to move the whole panel out a little - just making a bigger flare near the edge would not be enough. Make sense? Hard to explain in words, isn't it ?! Cheers John
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Last Edit: Sept 6, 2009 21:10:15 GMT by johnrh
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johnrh
Part of things
Posts: 958
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Sept 6, 2009 21:08:47 GMT
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hey, this is an awesome project, really enjoyed reading through that Its nice to see people going that extra 10% to turn out a really special car. I'll keep an eye on this with eager anticipation! Many thanks. I'm hoping it will be really good when it's finished. But doing everything as well as I can takes a long time, so don't hold your breath! John
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Sept 6, 2009 22:55:58 GMT
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What a high quality build! This is going to be such an amazing car when it's done, hats off to you!
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Sept 7, 2009 14:09:19 GMT
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It's a shame that you already have done your rear axle so sweetly One solution would be to fit a 240 rear axle that is narrower but that's maybe not so tempting at this moment?
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194? Willys Jeep MB 1965 Volvo 544 Special 1968 Opel Rekord 1975 Opel Kadett Estate 1985 Mercedes-Benz 230E 1985 Datsun 720 King Cab 4x4 diesel 1997 Volvo S70 2.5SE (ex. "Volvo544special65" - changed to more reader friendly username. )
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johnrh
Part of things
Posts: 958
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Sept 7, 2009 18:32:04 GMT
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What a high quality build! This is going to be such an amazing car when it's done, hats off to you! Many thanks... I hope it turns out well John
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johnrh
Part of things
Posts: 958
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Sept 7, 2009 18:39:38 GMT
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It's a shame that you already have done your rear axle so sweetly One solution would be to fit a 240 rear axle that is narrower but that's maybe not so tempting at this moment? I did think about that before doing the axle, but the mountings are different so it would have meant changing quite a lot to swap to a 240 rear end. It's a balancing act of course, because I want the wheels as close as possible to the arches - I like that look. But without rubbing of course. A friend on volvoforums.org.uk has made me think again about shortening the torque rods as you would when lowering a 240. I had thought that was unnecessary when lowering the 164 suspension, but now I think I'm wrong. That will help clearance because it will move the axle forward. Cheers John
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Last Edit: Sept 7, 2009 18:41:27 GMT by johnrh
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johnrh
Part of things
Posts: 958
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Sept 7, 2009 19:43:49 GMT
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Quick update. I want low suspension (of course!) but the 164 has got to work well as a performance car, it's not just for looks. Stiff springs and a live axle don't work well together on bumpy roads (like we have in Yorkshire)... gives a bouncy ride and poor traction. So I am using standard soft springs, cut down, together with Bilstein sport dampers and air springs, which arrived today. These fit inside the coil and I'm hoping they'll give 2 important benefits. Firstly, they combine with the coil to give a rising rate spring (soft over small bumps - good for ride and traction - but firming up as suspension travel is used up, to prevent bottoming). Secondly, the inflation in the air spring can be varied to level the car and maintain normal suspension travel when heavily laden. Either an air line or an in-car pump can be used. Cheers John
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Last Edit: Sept 7, 2009 19:51:36 GMT by johnrh
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Sept 7, 2009 20:14:01 GMT
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Cool
How much were those air springs and where did you get them from
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johnrh
Part of things
Posts: 958
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Sept 7, 2009 20:48:46 GMT
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Sept 7, 2009 20:53:45 GMT
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Fitting a 240 rear end is not a very big deal, you have to lenghten the upper trailing arms 90 mm each (lower are bolt-on) and make a new panhard rod of the 164 and the 240 rods. Making a bracket for the 240 handbrake cables (no big deal) and using 240 shocks, 164 calipers. I did that swap on mine.
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194? Willys Jeep MB 1965 Volvo 544 Special 1968 Opel Rekord 1975 Opel Kadett Estate 1985 Mercedes-Benz 230E 1985 Datsun 720 King Cab 4x4 diesel 1997 Volvo S70 2.5SE (ex. "Volvo544special65" - changed to more reader friendly username. )
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johnrh
Part of things
Posts: 958
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Sept 8, 2009 15:44:50 GMT
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Fitting a 240 rear end is not a very big deal, you have to lenghten the upper trailing arms 90 mm each (lower are bolt-on) and make a new panhard rod of the 164 and the 240 rods. Making a bracket for the 240 handbrake cables (no big deal) and using 240 shocks, 164 calipers. I did that swap on mine. I'll bear that in mind, but I think I can make the 164 axle work John
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Sept 9, 2009 12:09:24 GMT
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I understand that you wants to use it, and I would do so in your situation too, just telling what's needed...
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194? Willys Jeep MB 1965 Volvo 544 Special 1968 Opel Rekord 1975 Opel Kadett Estate 1985 Mercedes-Benz 230E 1985 Datsun 720 King Cab 4x4 diesel 1997 Volvo S70 2.5SE (ex. "Volvo544special65" - changed to more reader friendly username. )
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johnrh
Part of things
Posts: 958
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Sept 13, 2009 19:02:31 GMT
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Hi, This is probably the last update for a few weeks. I'll be very busy at work for a while and the next two weekends are taken up with a wedding in London, then a visit to the in-laws in Edinburgh. I checked the angle of the propshaft lange on the axle, and it;s fine at my intended ride height. It is looks to be exactly 90 degrees to the alignment of the prop from the centre joint. So I am happy that I don't need to shorten the radius arms (aka torque rods). I did some more work on rear wheelarches Cutting away the sloped section of the inner wheelarch. It was an unpleasant job, head inside the wheelarch with the grinder and lots of sparks. I had to stop a view times to stop my hat smouldering. Half cut out... This is what I removed. Patched and rusty near the lip, so I don't feel guilty about cutting it out. The view from the boot with this section removed I then cut all the way along the side of the spare wheel well, and wedged the wing outwards about 15mm. This is how it looks outside Tried the wheel fit again, with the bottom of the arch pushed out about 15mm It makes a big difference; this was wedged against the tyre before A couple more views at my intended ride height There was still not enough room for suspesnion travel so I moved the wing further, to about 25mm. This is at full-bump on the left, normal ride height on the right. Clears the arch OK except for near the front, where I can cut more of the lip away. But, my problem is that when the axle is raised to full-bump on both sides, it moves across (because of the arc of the Panhard rod) and the left tyre would rub the wing. If I adjust the Panhard rod to centre the axle on full-bump, the tyre clears the wing, but then the axle is not centred at the normal ride height of course. It is really touch-and-go. I can't tell whether I'll get away with this until I have two tyres mounted on rims and the panels cut on both sides. But as things stand, the odds are 60/40 against it fitting. So, I'll be seriously considering flared wheelarches. I think this is preferable to swapping in 240 rear axle/suspension (240 axle is narrower). I can't afford to have another axle rebuilt, I want to use the 25mm rear IPD ARB that I have, and aesthetically I think some subtle flares might add something anyway. Alternatively, I could make a Watt linkage to replace the Panhard rod. That would keep the axle centred throughout its travel, but it's quite a bit of work. I'll do some thinking over the next few weeks. Cheers John
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johnrh
Part of things
Posts: 958
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Sept 16, 2009 17:42:55 GMT
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Hi A "thinking" update... no photos In a way I fancy making a Watt linkage; I've never done it before and of course it's technically superior to a Panhard rod. Probably, I'd take one from a Scimitar (OE on those) and make that fit the Volvo. I know that the Touring Car racing 242s were converted to Watt linkage, so they probably had the same problem! But I had an idea today that I'll try first... because it's much easier. If I raise the body mounting point of the Panhard rod (drill a new hole higher up), I can make the axle centred at both full bump and normal ride height. In a way, it's taking part of the Watt linkage operating logic and applying it to a Panhard rod. I'll drill the new mounting to make the rod horizontal when the axle is exactly half-way between normal ride height and full bump. Therefore, the rod will be at X degrees at full bump, and -X degrees at normal ride height... i.e. the same effective lateral length in both positions. The axle will move slightly to the right at the half-way (rod horizontal) position, but hopefully not enough for the right wheel to contact the body. On full drop it will move to the left, but that's not a problem for clearance, and the car's body control will be quite good on the Bilsteins. Vizualising, I think this will also work OK with one wheel only in bump, but need to check of course. Any thoughts? Cheers John PS: It's a very simple but clever thing, Mr Watt's linkage. For anyone who wants to see one working there's info here. Not great animation, but it gets the point across: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt%27s_linkage
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Sept 16, 2009 22:10:43 GMT
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It was common widening the arches on 100 series volvos in the 80s by replacing them with Mk1 Golf arches. Don't do that however, it looks terrible! ;D
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194? Willys Jeep MB 1965 Volvo 544 Special 1968 Opel Rekord 1975 Opel Kadett Estate 1985 Mercedes-Benz 230E 1985 Datsun 720 King Cab 4x4 diesel 1997 Volvo S70 2.5SE (ex. "Volvo544special65" - changed to more reader friendly username. )
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mirafioriman
Posted a lot
My next project.......
Posts: 1,361
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Sept 16, 2009 22:20:13 GMT
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Make a Watt linkage. I'd love to watch!
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Sept 17, 2009 5:43:50 GMT
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Make a Watt linkage. I'd love to watch! I agree but i´d be tempted just to make the arch match the wheel. Just caught up with this one, great stuff.... ;D
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