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I think it's all been said really. Not a great deal to worry about. It's just a bitter pill to swollow that the days of building a rod and getting a mate with an engineering ticket to pass it off are gone, just like riding a bike without a helmet (but a bit more af a pain in the ass!). It dsen't seem unachivable though, and to be quite honest, quite fair. It's more for the people who want to build a car with no idea or structural engineering and streses and drive about on the roads with people everywhere - somethings got to give and it's the price you pay for building a rod as opposed to a modified car - it's got to be good. As far as the prices go, a bit of lobbying and lets hope it goes down.
Joe the fish - top work.
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IVABenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Even with altering the chassis, as far as I can see that still qualifies the car as an "Amateur built" car and is tested under the Basic IVA, which shouldn't be a problem if the car is properly built. Pretty much everything in the BIVA just seems like what would normally be considered in an MOT or are just common sense safety checks.
I do agree that the price is pretty horrendous though!
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i know alot of people here care greatly about the car scene as a whole. And although I'm aware we need to gather facts before worrying too much. I don't see how the head in the sand approach will work. I.E saying somthing like i don't see how i can be implimented or ill believe it when i see it. As that is what they rely on, us as a whole sitting back and not bothering to do anything about it as a group. If i knew how i would be trying to make a difference but I'm not up to speed on petitions and who to petition for that matter (i.e who is in charge of these changes) but I'm aware that there are people in the scene who know more than enough to put some plans into action. I think there are enough people in this country who would be affected by the growing number of rules they are placing on our hobby. and id assume these people would be more than happy to do somthing about it and help out in anyway they could given the chance. we need to do more than just wait
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I don't see how the head in the sand approach will work. This is not head in the sand, it is level headedness... running around screaming that the sky is falling will get you nowhere and cause you to discredit yourself as you jump at shadows... www.the-ace.org.uk/ has the details of BIVA, in fact they have a link to the finalised BIVA manual : www.the-ace.org.uk/biva-manual-finalised.html from the 27th May.
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Thanks for the link. Perhaps this can go into the Useful Threads archive?
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1953 Minor (Long term project) PT Cruiser
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IVABenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Exactly - all the details of the BIVA are published. There is no need to "wait and see", or bury heads in the sand - just open the PDF and have a read of the facts. There's no compulsory NCAP test, no bans on metal bumpers, no law that you must have a certain amount of cup holders.... it's all completely reasonable and as far as I can see, ANY kind of modified car whether it's a Rod, Kustom or Rice Burner will not have a problem passing it if it's properly built. Some muppet killing himself and a load of bystanders in a badly bodged together car would do much more harm to our hobby than a test to make sure everything is done propery, IMHO. If anyone can pull out a section of the BIVA manual which means a modified car would never see the road again, I'll happily change my opinion on it.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,840
Club RR Member Number: 174
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IVAstealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Its not the standard of build quality that makes putting a rod through difficult it's the exterior/interior projection and radiused edge rules. On a hi-tech smooth rod it shouldn't be too bad, but on a trad rod its very difficult. Take caddycol's car A quick scan shows that you'd need to pretty much rebuild it from scratch to give it any chance of passing. Bits that would fail Frame horns Sharp Edges on Exposed engine Sharpe Edges on grille shell Exhausts Door Hinges Door Handles Cowl Vent The whole bed Rear lights Rear numberplate As I said thats just with a quick scan. Yes you could rebuild and alter parts to pass, but removing the bits I mentioned would take it away from being a trad rod and more towards been a street rod. From reading various info the way it will work is that an MOT tester/Traffic Cop/VOSA inspector can flag up the car as modified. VOSA then invite you to have the car inspected. If the car passes the points system you should be fine. However if it fails or you don't go for the test you'll have a compulsory IVA test. Obviously if you've not built the car to pass it will fail. Most car interiors pre 1990 would fail straight away, along with the exterior projections and radii. Matt
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VOSA then invite you to have the car inspected. If the car passes the points system you should be fine. Details on this please. Is that just the current points system? How is that applied to cars with seperate Chassis? It seemed to be aimed at monocoque cars?
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IVABenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Obviously if you've not built the car to pass it will fail. Most car interiors pre 1990 would fail straight away, along with the exterior projections and radii. "If the vehicle is accompanied by satisfactory evidence of compliance with interior fittings and the vehicle does not appear to be modified such that it would affect the evidence, the requirements of this section may be considered to be met."I think there's some built-in common sense to the IVA, which is a fortunate thing. I see what you're saying about caddycol's car - the "Exhaust must be fitted with a silencer" stipulation, for example, causes problems. Exterior protrusions, too, are going to be a nuisance although there are separate rules for things like grilles which states that the edges must be blunted rather than the 2.5mm radius in other sections. I suppose the only way to do it would be to build the car to pass the BIVA then alter those bits later.
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Obviously if you've not built the car to pass it will fail. Most car interiors pre 1990 would fail straight away, along with the exterior projections and radii. "If the vehicle is accompanied by satisfactory evidence of compliance with interior fittings and the vehicle does not appear to be modified such that it would affect the evidence, the requirements of this section may be considered to be met."I think there's some built-in common sense to the IVA, which is a fortunate thing. I see what you're saying about caddycol's car - the "Exhaust must be fitted with a silencer" stipulation, for example, causes problems. Exterior protrusions, too, are going to be a nuisance although there are separate rules for things like grilles which states that the edges must be blunted rather than the 2.5mm radius in other sections. I suppose the only way to do it would be to build the car to pass the BIVA then alter those bits later. What you meen like what people have been doing for years for the MOT with fenderless cars ect? or the same as people do with the current test system for kit cars ect or the same as the Germans do for the TUV ? It seems to me some people just like to panic and take heards of others with em
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R.I.P photobucket
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Some of the items on the pickup can be got round with a bit of thought (e.g. cycle fenders, bonnet and different exhaust). The thing that worries me about external projections is original features such as roof gutters, fins and wheel-arch lips. Admittedly, I haven't read the manual fully yet, but I think some careful measurement might be in order on some cars.
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1953 Minor (Long term project) PT Cruiser
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ger
Part of things
Posts: 329
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Its not the standard of build quality that makes putting a rod through difficult it's the exterior/interior projection and radiused edge rules. On a hi-tech smooth rod it shouldn't be too bad, but on a trad rod its very difficult. A couple of very recently SVA'd rods.....
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"If the vehicle is accompanied by satisfactory evidence of compliance with interior fittings and the vehicle does not appear to be modified such that it would affect the evidence, the requirements of this section may be considered to be met."I think there's some built-in common sense to the IVA, which is a fortunate thing. AFAIK, the evidence of compliance is the approval certificated from another country - I don't think that having an unmodified interior from days gone by is enough. I could be wrong. In any case, the Basic IVA is more involved than the standard IVA - it performs inspections on everything rather than accepting documentary evidence, so no documentation would be accepted. And the comment about amateur built cars being in category M1 and therefore only costing £199 is incorrect - From what I can find they come under Class A and therefore cost the full £450. Aside form cost, however, it's not much harder than the SVA (I've looked at both manuals). As for the reports of MOT stations reporting to VOSA re: modified cars, we will have to wait and see. It's possible given current legislation, it's just that so far 'they' haven't bothered. This is only an issue if your car fails under the current 'points' system of identification. *NB - I Don't Know If This Bit Is True Or Not* Under said points system it seems that the bodyshell and chassis are treated as one unit - in the same way as a monocoque. This would suggest that major body surgery, even leaving the chassis/running gear/axles/steering intact would earn you an IVA. I don't think that the legislation actually specifies this - I haven't been able to find any definitive information. Again, this is a "wait and see what happens to the test case" situation. *NB - I Don't Know If This Bit Is True Or Not.* This isn't the 'end' of modified cars - it is just another piece of legislation to comply with. It can be complied with, so there need be no panic.
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Sorry that was me who mentioned the price thing.. plucked from a read of the leaflets I linked too.. Shame would of been nice if it was £199.. much better than £400! I'm off to search for some more info..
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Daily: Spazda Mx5
'A52's Fastest steak eater 2010'
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Ok some 'key' (possibly) bits lifted from the manual.. all from the basic bits and stuff picked out that might affect people doing simple modifications rather than builds.
IVA scheme for M1 vehicles applies to M1 basic and M1 normal A vehicle subject to basic M1 IVA is: an amatuer built vehicle a personally imported vehicle a left hand drive vehicle a vehicle manufactured in low volume (caterham etc) a vehicle manufactured using parts from another registered vehicle a rebuilt vehicle (I think one of my other links explained these)
All other M1 vehicles are subject to a Normal M1 IVA The standards applicable are those given in each section below and in most cases is dependant on the year of manufacturer.
Exhaust systems: Must have silencer must not exceed 99db
Visual Emmisions: Must not emit dense blue or clearly visible black smoke for a continuous period of 5 secs at idle Must not emit excessive smoke or vapor of any colour during acceleration.
Emissions readings: Basically same as MOT as far as I can see. Pre '75 cars no test
Fuel Tanks: Plastic ones must be for road use with evidence, original manufacturer fitment from a mass produced vehicle, or has been previously and is unmodified
Steering: The steered wheels must not foul or be likely to foul other parts of the body work during normal use
Door latches and hinges: The hinges of hinge mounted doors must be fixed on the front edge of the doors in the direction of forward travel. In the case of double doors these requirements apply to the door wing which opens first
Horn: The horn must emit a continuous uniform sound
Mirrors: Must have offside exterior mirror Must have interior mirror Must have nearside exterior mirror 'if' the rear view mirror gives no view to the rear or the rear window is less than 70% light transmittance
Brakes: The vehicle must be fitted with a split/dual circuit brake system
Interior fittings: Required Standards 1+2 (edge curvatures) will NOT apply to any part of the internal surfaces of a mass produced vehicle provided it is as originally manufactured.
Anti-theft: The vehicle must be fitted with either a manual or electronic anti theft device. A manually operated battery cut off or removable steering wheel would not be considered to be anti theft.
Exterior projections: All 'Hard' parts contactable with a 100mm sphere that form a surface or protrude 5mm or more must have a radius of curvature of at least 2.5mm Protrusions less than 5mm but more than 1.5mm must have blunted edges Wheel arches must be 'turned inward' or have 2.5mm curvature Any protrusion of a wheel, wheel nut etc must at least be blunted The ends of any bumpers must be turned inwards or intergrated into the bodywork Exhausts must not protrude more than 10mm from body directly above unless it has curvature radius of at least 2.5mm then no more than 150mm. Side exit exhausts must terminate no more than 50mm from extreme edge of the vehicle
Speedo: Must not read slower than vehicle is travelling Must read within the tolerance of: actual speed/10 +6.25
Most of the rest of the basic IVA reads like an MOT or some basic safety stuff.. either that or is too complicated to go into here!
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Daily: Spazda Mx5
'A52's Fastest steak eater 2010'
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John
Part of things
Posts: 347
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All this seems fair for vehicles that are going to be built but can this be applied retrospectively? ...........
John (obviously keen to know!)
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It is also worth noting the bits in the IVA on tyre sizes stretch fans...
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Ah yes I managed to skim through the tyre bit, sorry...
Tyres: Each tyre must be of the correct nominal size for the wheel to which its fitted.
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Daily: Spazda Mx5
'A52's Fastest steak eater 2010'
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Rich G
Posted a lot
Keyboard Worrier
Posts: 1,059
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*NB - I Don't Know If This Bit Is True Or Not* Under said points system it seems that the bodyshell and chassis are treated as one unit - in the same way as a monocoque. This would suggest that major body surgery, even leaving the chassis/running gear/axles/steering intact would earn you an IVA. Not true – on a car with a separate chassis the bodyshell counts for no points. You can put an entirely different bodyshell on say a Herald or Kitten chassis and so long as the original chassis remains unmodified and the running gear untouched you would not need IVA. You would of course have to register it as something other than a Herald or Kitten. All this seems fair for vehicles that are going to be built but can this be applied retrospectively? ........... John (obviously keen to know!) SVA/BIVA applies to anything built after 1998 when SVA was introduced – if the car does not have enough points to retain its identity.
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kevfromwales
Posted a lot
the conrod's REALLY out the block now!
Posts: 3,909
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so say, for example you had a Q plated jago jeep kit car - registered before sva came in (let's say for arguements sake - 1982) that would be sva exempt, as it was put on the road before sva came in??
but, what if you had a jago jeep which was built in the same year, and registered as a 'jago' but not on a Q - is that still going to be sva exempt??
if you'd put a rover in your moggy minor, and tubbed it out, (in say 1986?) if you changed the logbook to 3.5 ltr before sva implementation - would you be ok?
- but if you'd put the rover in, and not bothered with the paperwork - I'm assuming you'd be in for the sva test?
or, if you had an f100 pickup truck (!) with a heavily modified chassis and non original running gear - if it was imported with the mods done before the sva came in - would you be ok??
kfw
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Almost on the road: b11 sunny breadvan, e36 tds, 325i skidcar,
nearly there: ford f250 tathauler, suzuki alto, u11 bluey
not for a while: ford pop, 32 rails,
not in this lifetime: ruby, '29 hillman
''unfortanatly I'm quite old and scruffy and in need of some loving. my drive shaft needs a new boot....''
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