Davenger
Club Retro Rides Member
It's only metal
Posts: 7,272
Club RR Member Number: 140
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i love touring carsDavenger
@dminifreak
Club Retro Rides Member 140
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Sept 28, 2009 16:08:19 GMT
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That's because the over-all champion was a mere mathematical game after 1973. Unett, the Avenger guy who "won" 3 overall BTCC championships, was in the under 1300cc class, running against basically no one in his works Chryco (because the new 1974 "OPEC oil" rules had just done him an enormous favor). He only ever won 2 BTCC rounds. Whereas, people like Rouse won 60 races, Spice 27, Walkinshaw 9, Muir 23, etc. Because Unett ran up so many points in his minor class, he was CROWNed overall champion with LOTS of low overall placings buts lots of firsts in class. Meanwhile, the overall victors in much more competitive classes would trade off wins throughout the season, thus their individual totals were less. However, the Avenger wasn't beating them, lol. None of the above detracts from Unett, or is intended to. But it does put the Avenger's "prowess" into, um, perspective. The cars winning 99% of the BTCC races back in those years were NOT Avengers! Some win by maths. Some win by podium finishes. I'm interested in the latter rather than the former, as are most people. Err, no Unett was running Avenger GTs These are 1500cc
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Sept 28, 2009 16:12:20 GMT
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Err, argue with the official BTCC home page!
"With the demise of big V8s, the Ford Capri emerged as the front-running model. Gordon Spice won the 3000cc class titles in five successive seasons, 1976 to 1980. But the overall champion for the first four of those years hailed from the newly-introduced 1300cc class; Unett in a works Avenger GT was invincible for two years until usurped by Richard Longman, who also received factory support in Patrick Motorsport’s Mini 1275GT."
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Davenger
Club Retro Rides Member
It's only metal
Posts: 7,272
Club RR Member Number: 140
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i love touring carsDavenger
@dminifreak
Club Retro Rides Member 140
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Sept 28, 2009 16:19:04 GMT
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Yeah, the 74 car was a 1250, so you're partly right, but that engine ceased production in 74. His 76 and 77 cars were GT's, you said that yourself. The GT is a 1500cc. in fact the post 75 GT is a 1600 I can go find you a spec sheet if you really want. I don't presume to try and educate you about Capri's, so why be so antagonistic about Avengers? www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=60555
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Last Edit: Sept 28, 2009 16:25:37 GMT by Davenger
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Sept 28, 2009 16:30:20 GMT
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Yeah, the 74 car was a 1250, so you're partly right, but that engine ceased production in 74. His 76 and 77 cars were GT's, you said that yourself. The GT is a 1500cc. Fact. I can go find you a spec sheet if you really want. I don't presume to try and educate you about Capri's, so why be so antagonistic about Avengers? Break it up break it up ;D have another vid
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Sept 28, 2009 16:36:40 GMT
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not touring cars but made me smile all the same
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Sept 28, 2009 17:00:29 GMT
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Odd thing that strikes me watching that though - I don't remember the last time I saw a Toyota Carina on the road... Come to south London, you'll find they've all retired into the ignominy of minicabbing.
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Sept 28, 2009 17:05:24 GMT
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Yeah, the 74 car was a 1250, so you're partly right, but that engine ceased production in 74. His 76 and 77 cars were GT's, you said that yourself. The GT is a 1500cc. in fact the post 75 GT is a 1600 I can go find you a spec sheet if you really want. I don't presume to try and educate you about Capri's, so why be so antagonistic about Avengers? Dave, two things. One, I'm not antagonistic: cars, people, or anything. What I am is fact-based. The Avenger competed in the sub-1300 class, per BTCC's official site. There it racked up class wins in a less competitive echelon, whilst the fast cars were slogging it out in much bigger fights up top of the race card. That's all. And to say that is not slagging. In fact, I made that quite clear in my first post, "None of the above detracts from Unett.." Two, I am no Capri dreamer. I am its harshest critic. You may wish to trip over to my comments regarding Ford's PR largesse as regards the 2.8i in the BGMidgett thread about Capri re-engining. Please do not reduce me to two-dimensional cardboard based on your obvious passion for Avengers, and my obvious passion for facts. We can be friends, and I therefore serve you a virtual brew of your choosing. Three, Gargantuan Kris, knock it off. I'll tell you when I'm fighting. Until then stow your pictures and your voluminous smegmitous contributions of caca to this discussion, eh, mate? And here's a brew for you. Go now, and taunt other people worthy of your taunts.
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Sept 28, 2009 17:37:51 GMT
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Three, Gargantuan Kris, knock it off. I'll tell you when I'm fighting. Until then stow your pictures and your voluminous smegmitous contributions of caca to this discussion, eh, mate? And here's a brew for you. Go now, and taunt other people worthy of your taunts.
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Sept 28, 2009 17:47:33 GMT
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LOL, get in line, Oh Most Brobdingnagian One!
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Sept 28, 2009 17:55:27 GMT
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reminds me of boso style. i like that alot. also i really do love the btcc cavaliers its a shame as i have never seen one this style on the road. even whithout the stickers this would look pure awsome!
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Davenger
Club Retro Rides Member
It's only metal
Posts: 7,272
Club RR Member Number: 140
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i love touring carsDavenger
@dminifreak
Club Retro Rides Member 140
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Sept 28, 2009 21:35:04 GMT
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Norm, I tried to tell you it only competed in that class for 1 year. I never once accused you of slagging. As for 2 dimensional, all I can say is EH? I love facts too, hence my pointing out that he used the GT in later years. it was the only way he could compete properly. He ran a team of 3 horrid looking green GTs. My passion is not just for Avengers, it's for cars. I love all cars, I just happen to own an Avenger. It's an interesting car, full of interestion engineering innovations, but it's by no means perfect. Aparrently, it was one of the first cars to have crumple zones engineered into it, and there was me thinking it was called rust ;D All cars are flawed in some way, and they all fall apart eventually. Surely the whole point of us being here is our mutual struggle to slow or prevent that process. Anyway. Milk 2 sugars please, I'll strain the dirt and rust out myself ;D
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Sept 28, 2009 23:12:46 GMT
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Cheers, Dave. As I said, your disagreement is not with me, but with the official BTCC website, as far as any lapse in historical accuracy. Whether Unett got his class championship in Class D one year and Class C the next, matters little in the scheme of things. He was classed with the little nippers either way. Meanwhile the fastest cars and the toughest competition was upstairs in Class A or Grp1 FIA. In my opinion, naming an "overall" BTCC champion back then, based on the mathematics of how he fared in his individual class, was stupid. And the FIA ETCC did the same stupid thing for years, naming one driver and one manufacturer as overall champion, solely because of domination within their little slice of the classifications. That would be like naming some local hero NASCAR driver, the "NASCAR Driver of Year 2009" because he won all the races at his 1/3-mi oval, but never beat any of the big boys for a podium win in the major class series. Nobody (except the record anoraks) remembers the Avenger's BTCC "overall" championships because they were somewhat meaningless, when put into perspective against the outstanding top class competition and podiums. That's not Avenger's "fault", or Unett's. That's life. When I won my SCCA Improved Touring Cups here in the states, I was like Unett. I was in a 2.0L Capri in the 3rd category down from the top. However unlike the BTCC, our class (IT-B) was the most heavily subscribed class. The spectators had to watch our "race within a race" to see what was going on. It was sometimes frustrating trying to explain to a sponsor that we "won" the race, when another car in another class with twice the displacement got the podium. That's life.
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Last Edit: Sept 28, 2009 23:27:46 GMT by Team Blitz
Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Sept 29, 2009 8:24:58 GMT
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May I offer you all a neutral group hug and a huge Plato slide?
(I don't like the guy, but that is impressive!)
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Sept 29, 2009 11:56:19 GMT
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"Jason Plato"... sounds like a porn star name. Ya, I'm "Lancelot Taco" too.
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Sept 29, 2009 12:40:51 GMT
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Odd thing that strikes me watching that though - I don't remember the last time I saw a Toyota Carina on the road... Come to south London, you'll find they've all retired into the ignominy of minicabbing. I guess in 10 or so year's time they'll all have been replaced by Chevrolet Lacettis too Super Touring is a good look, why do we not see more medium-sized '90s saloons on big motorsport wheels? Needs to be done. And Norm: "Jason Plato"... sounds like a porn star name. Ya, I'm "Lancelot Taco" too. How am I meant to take him seriously now? I'm just going to hear "And Lancelot Taco leads from Giovanardi..." all the time ;D
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Last Edit: Sept 29, 2009 12:43:47 GMT by Rich606
1989 Peugeot 205. You know, the one that was parked in a ditch on the campsite at RRG'17... the glass is always full. but the ratio of air to water may vary.
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Sept 29, 2009 12:54:37 GMT
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I'm just going to hear "And Lancelot Taco leads from Giovanardi..." all the time ;D Or 'and Lancelot Taco tries to nudge Giovanardi into a spin, then crashes into a wall', or 'and Lancelot Taco tries to nudge Turkington into a spin, then crashes into several other cars', or 'and Lancelot Taco takes another undeserved victory after nudging several other drivers into unexpected spins'. Plato has a special move. And I say 'special' in the most un-PC sense. /cynic
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Sept 29, 2009 12:55:31 GMT
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I'm going to the BTCC this weekend, and have managed to blag a corporate ticket, pit access etc which should be brilliant as it is set to be an amaizing finale!!!
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Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,626
Club RR Member Number: 1
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i love touring carsNathan
@bgtmidget7476
Club Retro Rides Member 1
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Sept 29, 2009 13:06:02 GMT
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The Mk1 Mondeo's will always stick in my mind. Did Tiff not punt Mansell up the in one of them, was that an actual BTCC race or a Jurno setup?
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Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,626
Club RR Member Number: 1
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i love touring carsNathan
@bgtmidget7476
Club Retro Rides Member 1
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Sept 29, 2009 13:07:09 GMT
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Sept 29, 2009 13:16:38 GMT
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I'm just going to hear "And Lancelot Taco leads from Giovanardi..." all the time ;D Or 'and Lancelot Taco tries to nudge Giovanardi into a spin, then crashes into a wall', or 'and Lancelot Taco tries to nudge Turkington into a spin, then crashes into several other cars', or 'and Lancelot Taco takes another undeserved victory after nudging several other drivers into unexpected spins'. Plato has a special move. And I say 'special' in the most un-PC sense. /cynic it seems to work though lol and its always entertaining!
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