Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,515
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On the advice received from reputable Triumph sources (like Canleys) we have never put any additive in the Herald and never suffered from recession in over 100k miles. But I can only assume, SOC that you haven't driven many A or B series engines cars Their heads are not very hard and do suffer from valve issues. I suffered it with both the 1622 and the 1798 in my Oxford. That was while using an additive too (on of the FBHVC tested ones) which might go to show that their not all that good with a well used engine in any case As SOC said, run it without and keep an eye on the clearances. Generally plenty of warning if they're tightening up
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable.
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^^ you are right, although I did put about 8k on a mini without problems (ENGINE problems, lol) mostly it's been ford, ford, ford, vauxhall, ford, talbot, peugeot, ford,, ford ford ;D
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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I run the Allegro with Castrol Valvemaster purely to elimiate the pinking unleaded causes, I'm not too bothered about the valve seats with unleaded as with the low mileage I do it would take years to show any effect.
The "lead memory" that older cars with soft valve seats are meant to have comes with the level of use rather than age. If an engine has done a high mileage on leaded then it will have more of a coating of lead on the valve seats than a low mileage unit.
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Last Edit: Feb 9, 2010 23:40:01 GMT by Lankytim
1987 Maestro 1.6 HL perkins diesel conversion 1986 Audi 100 Avant 1800cc on LPG 1979 Allegro Series 2 special 4 door 1500cc with vynil roof. IN BITS. HERITAGE ISSUES.
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Identifying those cases where it is a real problem is mostly only possible in retrospect - ie wait and see.
The BMC B series does seem to really suffer - an Austin 1800 tested by PC with one of those in-tank 'catalysts' suffered from VSR in about 2000 miles. AFAIK it's a combination of valve train mass and the composition of the valve seat (which might explain why Pintos last better than B series engines), along with how hard the engine is worked.
I suspect that the amount of wear is more to do with how hard a given engine is driven rather than the actual rpm. Lots of full-bore red line acceleration is going to wear the valve seats (and everything else) faster than sitting at at a steady 4000-5000rpm with a light throttle on the motorway. This might explain why SOC's Pinto lasted so well, compared to Bortaf's Pinto, which was probably working harder hauling a transit around, even though he was driving it like a granny.
The valve clearances on my Imp closed up over the course of about 10000 miles, but I don't know what they were to start with. I was driving that like I stole it most of the time, with lots of full-throttle revs through the gears, then sitting at 4-5000rpm on fast roads (which itself needs quite a lot of throttle on the Imp) so I'm surprised it lasted so long. Even when I couldn't get a 5 thou feeler in a couple of the 'clearances', it would still run and drive. Ok, so it was only running on three, but it did run.
Personally, on an engine doing lots of hard driven miles with a cast iron head and no valve seat inserts I'd use an additive. With most alloy headed engines (with factory inserts), if the car is doing few, gentle miles, or if I didn't care about the engine then I wouldn't bother.
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Interestingly, our Mini has never benefited from an additive. We've done almost 30,000 miles in it with no noticeable defects - though engine speeds are rarely high and sustained. It's interesting because the FBHVC did do scientific tests using A series engines, and found additives did make a difference - with some being better than others. Worth a gander at www.fbhvc.co.ukHowever, as has been said, the worst that can happen is that your valve clearances close up and you need to modify the head or replace it with an unleaded one. We've played the 'see what happens and replace as necessary' game. No point replacing a perfectly good head and can't be bothered with an additive. The 2CV, with an all-aluminimum engine, already has hardened valve seats, so has never been treated to an additive either. And I've clocked up about 70,000 miles on the original engine now. (it had already done 89,000).
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org
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Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,626
Club RR Member Number: 1
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Feb 10, 2010 11:27:21 GMT
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10k miles on the Red Midget without using an additave, I did check the seats when i rebuilt it last year and it was fine.
The B Series I had done as it did go pretty bad.
The midget is a 1500 so it seems Trummy engines fair better
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topcat
Part of things
Posts: 289
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Feb 10, 2010 11:46:39 GMT
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Tetraboost is the only additive I would reccomend, mainly because it contains tetra-ethyl lead rather than a substitute. Funnily enough the only valves (not seats) I've had burn have been hardened in unleaded heads!
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Feb 10, 2010 12:04:42 GMT
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I've run the GT with Castrol for years, not very subtly either and its still OK and the Ital has an alloy head, so ignoring the whines of "'O' series must used leaded" she runs on 95 octane normal stuff with additive only to give thieving gits problems with their cars if they 'borrow' some (as one did..... that cost him a shedload of aggro - ;D)
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Rover Metro - The TARDIS - brake problems.....Stored Rover 75 - Barge MGZTT Cdti 160+ - Winter Hack and Audi botherer... MGF - The Golden Shot...Stored Project Minion........ Can you see the theme?
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topcat
Part of things
Posts: 289
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Feb 10, 2010 12:24:55 GMT
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Surely if it's got an alloy head it must have steel inserts pressed in?
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Feb 10, 2010 13:35:00 GMT
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I've put about 35K miles on the pre-crossflow in my Anglia and I've not seen any signs of any damage. I was expecting to, but the valve seats were in perfect condition.
Likewise, I put about 20K miles on the Pop sidevalves and never saw any damage on those. I did use additive after I re-ground the valves because I was back to shiny metal, but in hindsight I probably didn't need to.
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DutyFreeSaviour
Europe
Back For More heartbreak and disappointment.....
Posts: 2,944
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Feb 10, 2010 14:07:08 GMT
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BB, My saloon has done well over 30K on the head with me using only unleaded and not a sniff of a problem (the rest of the car disintegrated ;D - but not the valve seats) Don't fret fella and give it some - if it does go you've the excuse for an upgrade - just imagine what will fit in that bay John
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Back from the dead..... kind of
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bryn
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,913
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Feb 10, 2010 14:08:29 GMT
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It is a little hard to know isn't it? I killed a Cologne V6 after covering 29K in a year, mostly at motorway speeds. I was using additive, but hey who knows? I've never been convinced that something so imprecise can effect such great benefits. If the couple of extra quid it costs gives you peace of mind, what price happiness? 97p from Tescos I hear...
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Volvo, Buggy, Discovery and an old tractor.
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Feb 10, 2010 14:25:53 GMT
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Yes 97p from tescos for Redex additive. My friend did an experiment with his 1300 and noticed when he stopped using additive the valve seats started to recede. Did the same experiment with a DAF twin and it was unafected. I have also heard that engines can literally sieze up but am dubious about that.
The main one ive heard is that if you start using an additive you should use the same one and once youve started using it its not a good idea to stop as the engine becomes accustomed to its presence. For peice of mind I use it.
Paul
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Colonelk
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,740
Club RR Member Number: 83
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Feb 10, 2010 15:01:23 GMT
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hmmmmm very interesting thread. I'm trying to decide whether to keep running it in the viva, especially as that runs at 4.5k ish RPM on the motorway!
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Feb 10, 2010 15:07:39 GMT
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Oh the engine did work hard compaired to a car, empty the van weighed 2.9 ton due to a bloody great big tail lift inside the back doors ;D TBH when i stopped using leaded i used it as an oppertunaty to test those lead replacment "products" first head went with in the tank bag if lead balls, which incidently weighed exactly the same when they came out (around 10K) to the nearest point zero one of a gramm (borrowd the nearest dealers scales for 10 mins ;D ) next was the inline type (you know the one that apparently saved spitfires during the war? ) 9K till the seats went and lastly just for a laugh (that and me nan bought it for me for crimbo) one of those magnetic clamp round the fuel pipe things, 9.5K till no seats. Strangely enough every time it was number one that was the worst so mayby cooling has something to do with it, usually it's the back plug that overheats (furthest from the rad and pump) ? so mayby hot is OK and cool not ? the engine should run the same heat with a stat so not sure where that gets us? Although i have noticed that pinto transits have a strange quirk of working the front plug loose and blowing it out the head, had it happen 5 or 6 times on diffrant transits? but i do tend to put more millage on motors than most? i still regularly cover 500+ miles a week in a combination of old fords
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R.I.P photobucket
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Feb 10, 2010 15:08:30 GMT
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I think these additives are 97% snake oil and not worth the bother in any engine. I defo wouldnt bother with them and i suspect 90% of folk who use them are totally wasting their cash, as they never drive far or fast enough to give the valve seats any serious hammer. How much does a bottle of additive cost and how long does it last? I would be surprised if even the 'softest' valve seats did not last 8-10,000 hard-driven miles on unleaded, for the cost of the additive over that time you could probably pay to get some new hardened valve seats boshed in and have a pub lunch while they were being installed.
My landcrab is getting mainly motorway miles on it and i'm not using any additive. if I knacker the valve seats i'll let you know! (Then i will just fork out £150 for an unleaded head and carry on as before)
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Feb 10, 2010 15:23:57 GMT
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The main one ive heard is that if you start using an additive you should use the same one and once youve started using it its not a good idea to stop as the engine becomes accustomed to its presence. For peice of mind I use it. Paul Sorry but I reckon that's total rubbarsh. It IS true that you should never mix additives so if you're unsure what the previous owner was using, it's best to use nothing at all for at least a few tanks full. I imagine the Daf 44 engine is a lot like the 2CV one (aircooled flat twin in aluminium) so I wouldn't have any worries at all.
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org
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Feb 10, 2010 15:37:09 GMT
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The A series heads are prone to VSR even with leaded petrol, yet it didn't affect every A series engine (perhaps SOC's 'luck' theory might be relevant). I've heard of plenty of people running Minors without additives with no problem, in fact a bloke in work used to run his with no additives, and the only problem he had was that the no.4 exhaust valve used to get burnt. He remedied that by keeping a spare head in his garage. When it went down to 3 cylinder mode, he'd swap the head, and grind in a new no.4 exhaust valve into the old head, and kept that as a spare. He ended up doing this every 18 months and he lived 25 miles away from work. He was, however, fanatical about maintenance in accordance with manufacturer's recommendations, a service really was a service. Pre-war and early post-war engines such as side-valve Fords should be OK as they could be run on 'pool' petrol with major problems. I reckon in a lot of cases, if you use a decent oil, and make sure your cooling systems up to scratch, you'd probably be OK, just keep an eye on the valve clearances.
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1953 Minor (Long term project) PT Cruiser
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Feb 10, 2010 18:31:46 GMT
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And make sure your timing is right as well
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Feb 10, 2010 18:43:12 GMT
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I don't know if it is all necessary but I do know that slaters avenger had to have work last year as the valve clearances closed right up due to valve seat regression. But then he does rack up the motorway miles, fast paced on rollerskate rubber keeping the revs up.
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