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Mar 24, 2010 18:39:10 GMT
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Thanks for the disc info guys, think I'm going to work with the deeper discs, purely on account of them being cheaper and see how I get on with them on Capri struts.
As for the rear, I'm going granada Mk3 calipers, again because I have a set laying around. Am going to try a servo and cylinder from a 1st Gen S3 RX7, again I've got it and the vehicle runs similar sized calipers throughout so we'll see what that feels like, failing that I'll look towards a granada/sierra parts.
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2014 - Audi A6 Avant 3.0Tdi Quattro 1958 - Chevrolet Apache Panel Truck 1959 - Plymouth Custom Suburban 1952 - Chevrolet 2dr Hardtop 1985 - Ford Econoline E350 Quadravan 2009 - Ovlov V70 2.5T 1970 - Cortina Mk2 Estate 2007 - Fiat Ducato LWB 120Multijet 2014 - Honda Civic 2.2 CTDi ES
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Mar 24, 2010 19:38:45 GMT
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Back to the master cyls then, Ive been doing a bit of research.
Standard M16 caliper, 2x54mm pistons, 4580mm2 CSA. Ford sliding calipers (sierra/granada/mondeo) 1x60mm piston BUT as it is a sliding caliper it is working both sides of the piston so you still have to double it up. This gives us a CSA of 5655mm2 which is a 23% increase in area over standard (assuming you are leaving the back brakes alone) meaning that a similar increase in master cyl bore is required. The "standard" bore to drive a pair of M16 calipers seems to be around 21mm, so it looks to me like we should be hunting for 23-25mm bore masters. Both the granada mk2 2.8 and the Landrover v8 110 fall into this catagory, but most likely there are others out there.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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Mar 24, 2010 19:43:51 GMT
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Scary, that coincides with a 1-in bore size ATE M/C used some some Benzes. I think you're spot on.
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Mar 24, 2010 22:14:39 GMT
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Another thought to mull over... the caprisport page (the one you can see without paying them here) says a few things about rear brakes that I find interesting. First, they say only fit rear disks after uprating the front (OK, that makes sense..) then they say that you MUST fit disks to the rear or you will lock the front brakes in the wet all the time as they will overpower the rears (hmmm....) THEN they say Don't use front calipers on the back (durr...) due to front brakes providing 80% of the effort and therefore being too big for back use. They also show a ford bias valve - this is fitted on many (mostly up-range) cars to reduce rear brake effort on hard braking (to prevent the rear locking up) So, why the *need* for rear disks? The standard drums on a capri or cortina are more than capable of locking solid and spinning you out, thats why ford started fitting the bias valve (to drum braked cars...) in the first place. I can't see how a rear disk is automatically more powerful than the drum setup. Lets face it, most Mondeos run a rear brake drum abou t the same size as a cortina does. Thoughts anyone? PS I also love how they have piped the whole engine bay in goodritch braided hose! Must be at least 100 times the cost of ordinary kunifer lines. No reason for that at all (unless they make a good margin selling it)
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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Mar 24, 2010 23:00:15 GMT
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My mate builds race cars and he says they often have to decrease rear braking once the fronts are uprated due to more weight transfer to the front, i guess if your in a short softly sprung car that will be more of an issue than in a long low stiffly sprung one though, mk1 RS2000's have smaller brakes at the back than the Mexicos due to more front end weight, maybe the discs on the back of a capri are less powerfull, especially without the drums twin leading shoe self servo effect?
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Mar 24, 2010 23:02:23 GMT
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scary old - at a guess, the discs get a lot closer to locking up, without actually locking up. maybe.
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Mar 24, 2010 23:18:47 GMT
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Popup - yes, thats what I thought too. More powerful front brakes=more weight transfer=less effort needed (or wanted) at the back. So a bias valve, yes, rear disks...why? PS, rear drums aren't twin leading shoe..but you do get self servo effect from one shoe per drum Dave... Ok,it's a guess, but why would that be so? IMO the lockup point has more to do with tyre/tarmac and weather than if does brake system type.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Mar 24, 2010 23:37:53 GMT
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Rear discs are a total waist of time on a road car IMHO (and if you care to check any of the forums I use you'll find I allways say the same thing). Every and I do meen every sierra i've worked on (rear brake wise) has had rear caliper issues they rust and seize, the reason for this I recon is cos they do so little work (all sierras with rear discs have the valve by the way) that they never get hot enough to burn off the moisture that gets into the the caliper, hense they rust and as scarey had rightly noticed as the rear brakes on a frront engined RWD car only do around 20% (or less) of the braking rear discs are overkill. Take the cortina for example (sorry all I really know) on the 2.3 V6 cortinas Ford added a valve into the rear of the braking system cos with the heavyer V6 up front the weight distribution is more forward biased so less needed at the rear (same spec brakes as a 2.0 remember but suddenly too good for a V6?). IMHO the one and only reason manufacturers went to rear discs was for easyer/cheaper servicing I've never understood why anyone would fit a better performing brake set up on then limit it's capasity to actually perform better ? Track cars are a differant matter, they tend to be stiffer sprung so less weight transfer under braking and the corner weights are more balenced (cebtralised fuel tanks coil overs ect). Dam beaten to it
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Last Edit: Mar 24, 2010 23:41:49 GMT by bortaf
R.I.P photobucket
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Mar 24, 2010 23:41:19 GMT
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My mate builds race cars and he says they often have to decrease rear braking once the fronts are uprated due to more weight transfer to the front, I guess if your in a short softly sprung car that will be more of an issue than in a long low stiffly sprung one though, mk1 RS2000's have smaller brakes at the back than the Mexicos due to more front end weight, maybe the discs on the back of a capri are less powerfull, especially without the drums twin leading shoe self servo effect? The 2.8 capri used wider drums so the same pressure is distributed over a larger area possably ? I took so long typing an answer you beat me to it about the RS2000 ;D When superspeed did thier 3.0 essex conversions they changed the rear cylinder to the smaller 8 inch sized cylinders to stop the rear locking with the big old essex up front.
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Last Edit: Mar 24, 2010 23:47:07 GMT by bortaf
R.I.P photobucket
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Mar 24, 2010 23:47:13 GMT
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maybe its simply that its easier to change compounds with pads with more choices? i've never been keen on rear discs either, is a disc and calliper lighter than a drum?
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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maybe its simply that its easier to change compounds with pads with more choices? i've never been keen on rear discs either, is a disc and calliper lighter than a drum? No idea TBH, never really gave it a thought but i recon there can't be much in it ? TBH THE most impressive brake performance i've ever felt was fitting decent tyres When i first went to granny calipers (Mk2) and capri vents i could lock the fronts at will (kelly super chargers 185/70/13 old and hard), changing to new nankang 205 55 15s 99% illiminated being able to do it, at all!, then and only then did i concider a further brake upgrade, which is why i'm reading this thread TBH ;D
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R.I.P photobucket
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Mar 25, 2010 10:13:36 GMT
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I might have to look a the Transits brakes as I'm adding almost 50bhp to it, i've "uprated" them by removing the weight of all the camping gear from inside the van so they may cope, we'll have to see.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Sept 27, 2015 14:16:29 GMT
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Hi there just found this old thread and think I may have finally found out what my hubs are off. On my front end in the t bucket I have a transit mk1 axle,stub,and disk but the hub is off?... Here's a few pics of it thing.
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Sept 27, 2015 14:17:41 GMT
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Hi All i know this is an old post and a long shot, but would anyone still have this file to workout the master cylinder ? thanks Andrew
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Last Edit: Feb 23, 2024 11:26:33 GMT by andrewed1
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