gn3dr
Part of things
Posts: 391
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Jul 27, 2010 20:56:23 GMT
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I posted on here recently about looking for a Series 2 or series 3 Jag to put a diesel engine into for daily driving duties. Well I've found a '79 Series 2 in a nice seventies brown colour so part 1 of the project is on the way. Now I'm looking for input on what diesel engine you folks would recommend - I have some ideas myself - my initial choices are 1) The 2.5 or 3.0 TDS straight 6 BMW's (although I think the 3.0 might be a bit more complicated on the electronics front - not a huge problem for me but I don't want this to turn into a long term project due to having to research too much on elusive wiring diagrams etc..) 2) Second engine choice is something from the Mercedes stable. I really know nothing about Merc's but web searching has turned up promising info on the reputation of the OM606 range of engines (in turbo format) Any inputs on the above choices? (please don't tell me I shouldn't be putting a diesel in a Jag - I already know that - at least I'm putting it back on the road instead of it rotting away) There are a few guidelines I want to stick to - it must be relatively modern - not interested in heavy tank like engines from Nissan Patrols etc. I'd like as much refinement as possible. It needs to be pretty reasonable to buy - e.g I've seen complete BMW 525TDS' advertised here in Ireland recently for less than €500 and Merc E300's for not much more. I also still haven't decided whether to keep the car automatic or convert to manual but I guess I'll be influenced a bit by what engine / gearbox donors pop up. I'm generally not a auto fan but in something like a Jag with a big lazy torquey engine it could be OK. Any (constructive) inputs? Here's a picture of the motor - I haven't actually seen it in the flesh yet - took a chance so I hope it's not a rotter. It's on it's way from the UK to Ireland on a transporter as we speak ...hopefully.
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Last Edit: Jul 27, 2010 20:58:17 GMT by gn3dr
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Jul 27, 2010 22:36:25 GMT
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Hmmm, The Peugeot/ Land-Rover/ Jaguar v6 twinturbo diesel is perhaps too modern?
The Audi v6 2.5TDI should be included in your search too.
An Italian VM (Jeeps, Range-Rovers, Lancia and Alfa) pulls pretty strong too, although it will lack refinement due to its 4 cylinders.
A Cummins 6BT isn't an option? 6 cylinders, 6 litres, upto 215hp and lots of curlies.
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Click picture for more
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Volkswagen/Volvo inline 5? Fairly compact, good torque figures but I'm not sure what the electrickery would be like and if you can get them to fit any RWD gearboxes, I've only ever seen them in FWD guise. Had one in our Volkswagen van and it pulled like a train. Gotta be few repmobiles or vans in the yards by now, plenty of brackets on the front of the engine too for various stuff like pas and aircon too.
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Last Edit: Jul 28, 2010 2:00:26 GMT by PhilA
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If they can be made to work without a NASA supercomputer behind them, what about the VAG V6 or V10 engines? The V6 TDI would be pretty "normal" for the car size, but the V10 TDI would be scarily Awesome if you can find a stupidly trashed/rolled/rear ended Toerag. More torques than loose women, and a unique thunk-thunk-thunk sound when rolling along little above idle.
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Brian Damaged
West Midlands
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 9,553
Club RR Member Number: 33
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Not all Nissan diesels are plodders!!!!
I ran a Range-Rover with an RD28T in it. Straight-six OHC 2.8 litre, 135bhp and 200ft/lb of torque...more importantly peak power is at a heady 4400rpm and they can rev to 5k which means you won't have any gearing issues fitting it to a Jagwaaah. Nissan fitted it in non-turbo form to the Skyline/Laurel/Cedric, and the turbo version powered Y60/Y61 Patrols between 1994 and 1999.
Effortless power, my old Rangie would cruise all day at 85 and knock three figures if you were brave. And would do 35mpg in normal commuting. And they sound great....
;D
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This looked a nice car...it was on ebay wasnt it? I was bidding on it before i got mine, seemed a really nice car for the money! Just be sure to check the usual rust spots on these (chassis legs at the front, radiator cross member and rear radius arm monuts) other than that annythin else will be quite easy to fix.
IIRC it was a V12 wasnt it? Seems a shame to rip that out...but you'll make a lot of your purchase price back if you do. As its an early V12 it'll be Pre-HE, so it has the flat heads...and produces much more power (less mpg) than the later cars. Kit car people want these A LOT!
As for the Diesel...Modern-ish BMW or Merc would be my choice as well...used to lugging a big car around, plenty of spares..and decent torque figures. Plus, a lot of the are already RWD so saves a lot of messing around.
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I'd go for the 525tds from an e34 5 series. You should get a decent one reasonably cheaply and if it can drag an e34 around at speed it should have no problem with the Jag. You can also buy off the shelf tuning for it that will take it from 143bhp to 175bhp for £295, which should have it moving at a fair rate. www.ccctech.co.uk/chiptuning.php?make=BMW
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I also still haven't decided whether to keep the car automatic or convert to manual but I guess I'll be influenced a bit by what engine / gearbox donors pop up. I'm generally not a auto fan but in something like a Jag with a big lazy torquey engine it could be OK. If you want to make this economical, ditch the archaic three speed auto that is standard fit on the Jag as soon as you can. If you replace it with another auto, make sure it's one with a lock up torque converter and an overdrive top gear. If however, you want to go to manual, pedal boxes are easier than you would think to get hold of. Regards, Rich
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"You're about as likely to come across a fully functioning old Jag, as you are a taxicab that smells agreeable." - James May
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gn3dr
Part of things
Posts: 391
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This looked a nice car...it was on ebay wasnt it? I was bidding on it before I got mine, seemed a really nice car for the money! Just be sure to check the usual rust spots on these (chassis legs at the front, radiator cross member and rear radius arm monuts) other than that annythin else will be quite easy to fix. IIRC it was a V12 wasnt it? Seems a shame to rip that out...but you'll make a lot of your purchase price back if you do. As its an early V12 it'll be Pre-HE, so it has the flat heads...and produces much more power (less mpg) than the later cars. Kit car people want these A LOT! As for the Diesel...Modern-ish BMW or Merc would be my choice as well...used to lugging a big car around, plenty of spares..and decent torque figures. Plus, a lot of the are already RWD so saves a lot of messing around. Thanks for all the feedback folks - it's really helpful. Yeah it was on ebay and yes it's a V12. I know what you are saying about ripping the V12 - I have a slight hesitation in doing that but if the car is as good as described then I'd be looking for while for a suitable 6 cylinder one. Anyway I already have a Daimler Double Six coupe (restoration project at the moment but a it's a really original car) to satisfy my V12 want ;D I might even keep the V12 so that car can be converted back if ever needed in the future. I'm also going to be putting an XJR6 supercharged engine and manual box into another XJC (well it's a Daimler coupe as well actually). Everything is lined up for that but that's another story.... I had not considered the VAG V6 too much due to not coming in RWD format but i might investigate more options on that. I believe it's not supposed to be the most reliable engine though . Now the V10 would be awesome - but I have to be realistic - that's not going to happen anytime soon. Brian Damaged thanks for the feedback on the Nissan engine - I will investigate that further. A J engine should hopefully mean lots of reliability too. Rich - the Jag autobox is definitely going. I am still 50/50 about auto vs manual. The coupe that is getting the XJR6S engine is already a manual but I can see that the auto pedal box castings are pretty similar to the manual ones as well so it would just be a case of drilling the mounting for the clutch mater cylinder & mounting the pedal I think.
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Jul 28, 2010 10:24:04 GMT
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The castings are identical. One is machined, the other isn't. If you have the clutch pedal already, it's worth doing. If not, it's a lot easier just to undo 6 bolts and put a different pedal box in. If you need a pedal box, I know where I can lay my hands on one fairly quickly.
My XJR6 project is about to bite the dust.. I'm giving any good parts to Phil for his series 2. I've come to realise while I have the series 1 I'll never get it done. Keep me posted on yours though please? I'd love to see how it works out.
Regards,
Rich
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"You're about as likely to come across a fully functioning old Jag, as you are a taxicab that smells agreeable." - James May
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Jul 28, 2010 11:10:18 GMT
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The BMW M51 is a nice engine, but I think the Mercedes OM60X trumps it in terms of refinement and tuneablility. However, the Mercedes engines often fetch much much more than the Bimmer lumps, at least from what I've seen. All of these have lots of electrical gubbins, but unless you stick to something over 25 years old you're gonna encounter that. I recommend getting a complete donor car whichever engine you go for.
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Jul 28, 2010 12:16:19 GMT
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Just a side angle on the Merc OM60x thing, what about pulling the turbo diesel and auto box out of one the the later sSanyong/Daewoo badged Mussos. Later ones were turbo. I know the very early ones were Merc engines, and later ones were licensed builds, and even later ones were "based on" Merc engines, but even the turbo ones love veg oil, and you could probably buy a whole Musso TD for the cost of a Merc engine. Don't know if you can remove the transfer box and just use the auto box though.
Might be worth thinking about. They managed to get a turbo charger and steering rack in on RHD models.
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conrad
Posted a lot
Here to fix your cabin.......
Posts: 1,678
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Jul 28, 2010 12:28:57 GMT
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here's an idea for a donor for you anyway: This has been done to quite a few landrovers and range rovers, they're a very reliable engine and very tough. I'm a big fan of the 4x4s they come out of www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/commercials/1358855and as for the nissan 2.8td 6 cylinder, yeah they're good old motors too, sometime hard to find here though since those old shape patrols have gone very rare despite you having said you don't want heavy tank engines like from patrols, any diesel engine big enough and powerful enough to suit a jaguar and be able to pull it's bulk around is going to be heavy, and the misconception people have is that if it comes from a 4x4 whatever you put it into will be as slow as the 4x4, BUT most of the reason they're slow is weight, gearing and massive tyres slowing it down. rather than the actual engine, and as brian damaged said the nissan unit is actually quite high revving for a big diesel oh and here's a bmw one, i know of another one of these for sale too cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1465607
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Last Edit: Jul 28, 2010 12:35:49 GMT by conrad
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Ads 19
Posted a lot
My old r19
Posts: 1,351
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Jul 28, 2010 20:05:48 GMT
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rd28t is definately top. 5cyl spinter/musso lump not too far behind bmw 2.5 3rd
the old OM60x is rare now and very expensive but a good engine.
anyway there is one easy to run engine with auto box on it that you can get for about £200 now. Cummins 4bt used in Optare metroliners, and MCWs i think. rarely make above scrap value. strip engine and box out and away you go. no complicated electrics either. think the 6bt be a bit of a squeeze.
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emuosf
Part of things
Posts: 22
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Jul 28, 2010 21:22:50 GMT
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What about the 2.5 TD lump from a Mercedes c-class (w202 shape)
150 bhp and over 200ft/lb and with a RWD gearbox.
Its a 5cylinder, twin cam lump.
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Jul 28, 2010 21:42:40 GMT
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don't forget the cheap source of the bmw 2.5td motors wears a Vauxhall badge and comes with a rear drive box presumably of either sort. Theres a Jag convertable with one in this month in Classics Monthly too, if you're interested
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gn3dr
Part of things
Posts: 391
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Jul 28, 2010 23:19:37 GMT
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OK Lots to think about there - this is a great forum for this kind of thing I didn't know there was another twin cam diesel in the W202 - another one to research. I had been aware of the Ssangyong's - they're not all that common over here I think and those that are being broken are usually being sold on the back of having a Merc engine. Probably cheaper for me to buy a whole BMW or Merc. (The high tax on large engines makes these depreciate big time when they get older.) Something like this would probably be bought cheaper than asking price - cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1403218. Non turbo though so I'm not sure how quick or powerful they are. I really need to drive a few of these suggested donors to get an idea of what they feel like. I did buy Classic Monthly this month specifically for that article on the Vauxhall / BMW engined XJS. It was an OK job although the sump looked a bit too low. Interesting that the guy that converted it said he'd go for the 3.0 or bgger if he was to convert one again.
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gn3dr
Part of things
Posts: 391
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Jul 28, 2010 23:25:12 GMT
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rd28t is definately top. 5cyl spinter/musso lump not too far behind bmw 2.5 3rd the old OM60x is rare now and very expensive but a good engine. anyway there is one easy to run engine with auto box on it that you can get for about £200 now. Cummins 4bt used in Optare metroliners, and MCWs I think. rarely make above scrap value. strip engine and box out and away you go. no complicated electrics either. think the 6bt be a bit of a squeeze. Hi w201lorinser - I think I'd better do some googling - I have no idea what Optare metroliners, and MCWs are at all - I'm guessing some sort of digger or something
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conrad
Posted a lot
Here to fix your cabin.......
Posts: 1,678
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Jul 29, 2010 15:50:07 GMT
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rd28t is definately top. 5cyl spinter/musso lump not too far behind bmw 2.5 3rd the old OM60x is rare now and very expensive but a good engine. anyway there is one easy to run engine with auto box on it that you can get for about £200 now. Cummins 4bt used in Optare metroliners, and MCWs I think. rarely make above scrap value. strip engine and box out and away you go. no complicated electrics either. think the 6bt be a bit of a squeeze. Hi w201lorinser - I think I'd better do some googling - I have no idea what Optare metroliners, and MCWs are at all - I'm guessing some sort of digger or something optare metroliners are busses, more common in the UK than ireland MCW are also busses, double deck things i think. Now the 4bt is a cool engine but if you don't liek the idea of an engine from a 4x4 going in your jag then i don't think the cummins is for you, they're heavy duty commercial motors Awesome, but they're not exaclty refined
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Jul 29, 2010 18:11:41 GMT
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