K series or zetec for midget?.

[grumpybadger]

Fed up with erratic unreliable A series engines it now looks like i'm going to face a big bill to sort out the midgets 1275 leaving me with a dilema.
Do I recon the lump for the sake of keeping it original or,
do I bin the A series and go modern for extra power and reliability.
I'm aware of that a type 9 5 speed box will fit the car so that just leaves the engine.
Does anyone have any opinions, advice or stories regarding these conversions?.
The car already has a frontline telescopic front, and rear telescopics are in the pipeline anyway so the suspension is pretty sorted.
If i'm going to spend the best part of a grand on it, it may aswell be awesome for it. Right?.

[markbognor]

What about an mx5 engine and box?

[grumpybadger]

Cheers for that.
It's Interesting idea, i'll admit i'd never even thought of it, nor have I heard of it being done before (though i'm sure it must have.).
Does anybody have any dimensions for an mx5 box, I'm sure the engine will fit but the midget tunnel is a touch on the tight side.

[markbognor]

Seth might have some size info in his herald thread, from when he did the conversion on that.

[Seth]

*coughs.

There's not much in the Herald thread as its going in print. Will update that at some point though. I still need to measure the engine for someone else too... Gearbox is quite long but I've no idea how it compares to any other modern box. I didn't need to do any cutting of the Heralds chassis, only the (separate) tunnel and bit of floor had to be trimmed for the length.

One of the guys who writes for Practical Classics has/had a K series midget and he went back to a supercharged A series.

[Paul H]

Midget tunnel is very tight - a scissor jack might be useful

K series transplant is well developed, & even with just a 1.4, a Spridget will be quick.

Be aware that the Type 9 requires a crossmember modification, with likely BIVA issues - Aceadvice will be able to comment further.

[Paul H]

Seth - how does the MX5 box compare to the Triumph 1500 o/d box? IIRC, that will just about fit in a (1500) Midget.

Loads of info on K conversions can be found here:

www2.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgbbs

(don't be put off by the ancient forum software)

[Seth]

Sept 3, 2010 9:26:00 GMT Paul H said:

Seth - how does the MX5 box compare to the Triumph 1500 o/d box? IIRC, that will just about fit in a (1500) Midget.

Well, it's certainly longer. The only bit that was tight to the gearbox tunnel in the Herald was the large "girder" section on one side. This is used on the Mazda to solidly bolt a beam that runs back and is also bolted on the diff casing. With care I suspect that the majority of this could be removed from the casing without loosing structural integrity of the box itself.

[dan]

Zetec.

The K is a better engine but it's more expensive to tune. I sold a zero mile crate engine to an Elise racer for £2000. Zetecs are relatively cheap and so are the ancillaries. I can't recall the exact figure but all in the Zetec worked out a couple of grand cheaper.

I was after 190-200bhp engine that easy to work on and will allow me to develop over time. A supercharger may end up in the mog at some point.

www.jlhmorrisminors.co.uk are doing my conversion from 1098 A Series to 200bhp Zetec and heavy duty Type 9 and I highly recommend them.

[Nathan]

MX5 Box ig exactly the same length as a MGB Box, thus in a midget the shifter will be quite far back unless you mod it, been here and tried it. The tunnel will need cutting but if you place the engine slightly more forward then the shifter is not far off. Unlike the MGB MX5 Translant the Prop will need work too.

Your issue is the Xmemeber that runs across the mouth of the Midgets Gearbox tunnel. Back in the day the popular way of getting a 5 Speeder in there was to use one out of a J-Tin car (I cannot remember the model) and these were smaller yet the Xmember still required chopping out and a new one Fabbing.

Having been down this route I would say Type 9 as its all off the shelf items. MX5 Idea is good but guarenteed BIVA I am afraid. Now type 9 on a MX5 Engine would be a good option.

[alolympic]

Swings and roundabouts with these 2 tbh, but I strongly believe that weight is the enemy of driving pleasure, and that for reason - K series!

[grumpybadger]

I was under the impression that K series engines are unreliable and the parts to mate them to a type 9 are expensive. does anyone have any idea of prices etc.
It's worth noting that one company who produces a conversion for the k series is a company who I will not deal with owing to poor service in the past.

[alolympic]

Sept 3, 2010 16:29:38 GMT grumpybadger said:

I was under the impression that K series engines are unreliable and the parts to mate them to a type 9 are expensive. does anyone have any idea of prices etc.
It's worth noting that one company who produces a conversion for the k series is a company who I will not deal with owing to poor service in the past.

I'll tell you in 6 months
I have ran 2 cars with a K series in the past, no problems. They have a legacy of HGF but if you keep an eye on cooling then things should be good. HGF has become a cliche with far more people talking about it than having experienced it. Plenty of Rovers, Lotus's and Caterhams still going strong with the engine. Like any engine, they will last better if someone is maintaining them properly.
I decided to risk one in my car, just because the benefits are pretty convincing on the power to weight front.
Alloy bellhousings to fit K series to a Type 9 are approx £200.

[maxlee]

what about a vauxhall engine?? the 2L 8v engines are pretty hard core

[grumpybadger]

Having had a look at the price of second hand mx5's it seems crazy to even consider spending a grand on an engine swap when that buys a whole sportscar to begin with.
Vauxhall engines tend to be on the pricey side.

[Dorset_Clive]

Depends on whether you're a "fit and drive it" or a "fit it, drive it, mod it, add more power and then drive it" sort of chap!

If the former, I'd got for the K (which I know well having rallied quite a few 200s and now a Metro.

An 1.4 MPi 16v is about 105bhp out the box on standard trim. There's games to play with induction and exhaust that will yield marginal improvements. But the obvious route for more power is to go the 1.6, 1.8 and then 1.8VVCs. The first two are drop in and the VVC needs a little bit more work, but nothing that hasn't been done in a Metro.

[ChasR]

IMO, it's a simple choice. K Series.

Yes HGs can go, but with a little work (the Genuine Land Rover HG kit with a straight head (checked via a machine shop etc), hardened fire ring area, and decent coolant changed when it should be (OAT coolant can be had for £10 for a gallon these days), they are long lived engines. They are also much lighter than their Zetec or Vauxhall counterparts, although I reckon the Duratec HE comes close (but they are pricey and a different ball game). The K series engines I have seen go (again or the first time) have been down to poor maintenance or rushing/skimping on the HG change (using pattern parts, not skimming the head etc.).

Ford is a little more reliable but IMO it will cost more to put into a Midget than a K Series. For one you'll need the strange thermostat housing to allow the engine to work at the right temperature or risk premature wear (the twin 'stat housing isn't cheap) in addition to other issues. Also the K Series is a tried and tested conversion.

Even with a 1.4 K Series, it will still return almost 50MPG and do almost 7 seconds 0-60 when you try. I'd go for either a 1.8 (probably 35-40MPG I admit) or a VVC (but they are ££££ in more ways than one but they have potential for tuning (good head design).

[Copey]

pinto

[Good Scrap]

honda S2000 engine and box would be ideal :-)

[RobinJI]

The toyota 4A-GE might be another one worth considering.

I'll back up other peoples comments about the k-series. I've got a friend who's very into his metros, and from what I've seen of them, if you look after them, then they're good reliable little motors, as well as making good power and being impressively light, all in all a decent engine.