Haynes manuals got thinner!

[BenzBoy]

I was flicking through a new Haynes manual t'other day (as you do), and there's virtually no information in it!
What I mean is, you used to be able to pick up a manual and find an exploded diagram of pretty much every major component in the car, with comprehensive write ups about removal refurb and refitting.
These days you get a 3 page explanation about how to change the oil and anything more involved is sort of glossed over.
I realize that owners of these newer disposable tin boxes normally don't want to get their hands dirty, and that's fine, but I wish they wouldn't re-print manuals for older cars with all the useful info taken out! I'm buying second-hand ones from now on!

[Higgim]

Its true!

I went into halfrauds the other day to look at the Golf Mk4 book as I'm fitting MK4 rear calipers to my Mk2.

No pictures, no exploded diagrams and a very sketchy description of what to do. I was quite annoyed - but not as annoyed as the kid who had a go at me for taking the book out of the plastic sleeve to read in the store!!

[Revolution 9]

There's a few good reasons for this. For a start, as BenzBoy just said, modern car owners are too afraid/ignorant to try and even change the plugs or the oil themselves, and secondly, you can hardly fix some newer cars. I mean, what are those new BMWs, (with the electronically assisted everything and an I-Drive computer smarter than any of us that post on this board, that controls everything the car does for the driver,) going to be like to work on five years down the line when things start breaking down, or worse still, thirty years down the line when some poor sod has a go at retoring one?! I mean, I'm not an electrician or an engineer, never trained as one, so I want a car that I can work on myself without needing to be able to take 6 months rewiring just to get in the thing (keyless entry my !)

[Shortcut]

Your has keyless entry!!!

WOW!!

[iRocco]

Imagine restoring that in 30 years!

[wagoneer]

Oh they make my blood boil. I've just changes the rear trailing arm bushes on my Volvo. Haynes forgot to say they taper a bit! Good job I figured it our before I started pressing them in!!
Oh, and they all seem to be written for the American market so you have to translate the bloody thing before you use it (no offence SKOCAN). What happened to the UK version? Haynes is an English publisher after all. Rant rant. It's easier to tackle a job blind than use the manual. Rant rant.

[Revolution 9]

104ZS said:

Your has keyless entry!!!

WOW!!

You mean your's still uses keys? ;D ;D ;D

[BenzBoy]

Just to contradic everything I said, I got a manual recently for the Merc 450SL and to my surprise it was very good! That is to say, it's like they used to be!!! This was written in American (for the US market) - you can get a free English - US translation book from Haynes would you believe?!? I went for English - German instead as it'll aid my German eBaying.
It's got a softback cover for some odd reason, but it has the normal page numbering rather than SEC42.5B32 (what?!?!?!? JUSTTELLMEWHATFUCKINPAGEITIS!!)
Just have to get my head around rockers not being rockers but sills, sump being the oil pan, manifolds being headers..... I'll be talking like a redneck by the time I've done the rebuild!

YEEEEEE-HAW!

[mattblack]

I agree about Haynes manuals going downhill, the old ones used to give things like valve sizes and power outputs for different models, handy for DIY tuning or identifying that head you'd got under the bench.....

And they're printed on what appears to be bog paper now....

[Revolution 9]

BenzBoy said:

Just have to get my head around rockers not being rockers but sills, sump being the oil pan, manifolds being headers..... I'll be talking like a redneck by the time I've done the rebuild!

If you're trying to speak redneck, then remember the bonnet's a hood, a boot is a trunk, a silencer is a muffler, and your cousin's your girlfriend! ;D ;D ;D

[SkoCan]

BenzBoy said:

It's got a softback cover for some odd reason

All the Haynes manuals over here are softcover. Didn't see a hardcover Haynes till I got my Skoda manuals from the UK

[SkoCan]

REVOLUTION said:

If you're trying to speak redneck, then remember the bonnet's a hood, a boot is a trunk, a silencer is a muffler

It's a bit strange sometime doing English to English translations. On my Intrepid I do refer to the trunk as a trunk but I use the term boot on the Skoda. I tend to change my terminology based on the heritage of the vehicle and/or the available manuals.

[Revolution 9]

Really? They all seem to be hardback over here. Well, all the ones I've ever seen are anyway. But they are definately getting less useful. My Imp one, printed in 1973, is far better than the one I read lately for the Volvo 9 series. For a start, the Imp one had far more relevant detail. I mean, I know Volvos don't break down unless they're really not well, but if one I was driving did I'd like to think the manual in the boot could tell me what I needed to know if I had to do an unfamiliar job on the car. Of course, for modern car owners, the in-thing now is to stand by the side of the road and wait for a tow, without so much as looking at the engine, so the days of getting out, bodging a repair using some cable ties and a big hammer, and getting on your way with dignity are almost over, so why would Haynes need to bother putting detail on such things in manuals anymore?

[Ratdat]

This is so true. Not so long ago a bought a new haynes manual to check out the ECCS wiring for the engine on a ZX model so I could figure out how to connect the 200SX engine in... lo and behold ... no wiring diagram for the engine!! How completely useless!!

This reminds me actually I have quite a lot of old service manuals for all sorts of cars. If anyone is in need they are welcome to have them (you pay the postage though!). I have them for ..

Ford Cortina Mk1
Alfa Romeo Alfasud
Morris Marina
Fiat 131 Mirifiori
Ford Escort Mk1
Honda Civic 1200 Mk1
Reliant Regal
Morris Ital
BMW 320/323/325
Toyota Corona 1500 Mk1 '65-70
Toyota Corona 1900 Mk2 '70-73
Mazda 616 '70-73
Toyota Corolla 1100 '67-70
Austin A35
Morris 1800 landcrab
Riley 1.5
Austin A55/A60 etc

And I have manuals for just about any Datsun you can think of!

[Revolution 9]

But then you have just about any kind of Datsun we can think of! ;D

[Ratters]

REVOLUTION said:

But then you have just about any kind of Datsun we can think of! ;D

LMAO. Get in there

[BenzBoy]

I have a suspicion that the US Haynes manuals still have all the useful info in there - I don't think the Americans would stand for lesser curse word that we seem to put up with. One thing my manual has got is the California emission control system - jeez, am I glad I don't have to figure that lot out! A plumbers worst nightmare!

[RetroMat]

the Haynes manual for my micra seems ok how ever it does seem to lack info in certain areas especially for more complex tasks, the manual for my mates mk2 astra has no mention on his engine/model at all.

[SkoCan]

BenzBoy said:

I have a suspicion that the US Haynes manuals still have all the useful info in there - I don't think the Americans would stand for lesser curse word that we seem to put up with. One thing my manual has got is the California emission control system - jeez, am I glad I don't have to figure that lot out! A plumbers worst nightmare!

The more complex the less likely it'll be included. True of North American manuals as well. If the vehicle has ABS chances are all it'll say is take it to a "qualified brake specialist". The last of the carbed cars had almost no info on rebuilding. Late model auto transmissions get the same warning as the brakes. Fat chance finding instruction on replacing front or rear glass.

[Ratdat]

RetroMicra said:

the Haynes manual for my micra seems ok how ever it does seem to lack info in certain areas especially for more complex tasks, the manual for my mates mk2 astra has no mention on his engine/model at all.

Keep and eye on ebay and you should eventuall score a factory Nissan service manual. They rule ;D I've got stacks of genuine ones and they have everthing in them. The one for N13 and B12 Sunny models comes in 5 volumes! I have three of the volumes so far and each one is as thick as the yellow pages I haven't got a spare K10 one but I do have supplement 2 but that's only a thin update issue. I know someone who might have a genuine factory service manual you can buy though fo a K10.