pepe
Part of things
Posts: 32
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Sept 5, 2011 16:01:53 GMT
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ok guys so basically i have a mk1 golf GX with a 1.5 jb engine in my mk1 golf and it runs sweet, has torque for days, pulls like a train thru all gears (except E obviously lol)
Now i want to do something with the engine, ive looked and priced up the usual 2.0 16v/1.8 20VT etc etc which i think i am pretty capable of doing, but i want something different not nessacarily fast/high powered but a nice drivers car! so though id give myself a challenge and stick with what i have and improve upon it!
i did some research on tuning the JB there was the obvious port and polish, performance exhaust (which i planned on doing with the resto anyways) and re profile of the cam. So i did abit of research, and i have found that the 1.5 exhaust manifold is apparently very restrictive and they benfit from a nice free flowing 421 which would free up the top end abit,
so taking all this into consideration the engine in my head went something like this
1.5 jb (70bhp, approx 85bhp per tone) port and polish 421 manifold performance exhaust panel filter performance cam
this would probably make for a pretty fun car but cant really call it different, so i had a rethink about really fun small cars id driven/seen/wanted, which is when this (probably ludicrous) idea gets interesting lol nearly every car i came up with either had a big engine conversion (which ive already sort of dismissed) or boost! ie nova redtop, clio with the volvo turbo, mk1 golf 20vt/abf, toyota galanza turbo, lupo 1.4 16v m45, vw polo g40 the last two got me thinking! after more digging i found that my current engines compression ratio is not far from the g40 (py code iirc)
JB engine standard is 8:2:1. PY engine standard is 8.0:1.
would the standard internals handle say a g-ladder or even an eaton m45 on low boost (standard g40's run 0.72 bar and the lupo m45's seem to run 0.5-0.6 bar so in the region of these figures?)
then the inevitable fueling issue comes into play, i could improve this by replacing the pooberg 1b3 with a nicely matched bike carb install, say yamaha fzr 650 or honda cbr600 idk? anyone got any ideas/help of whats best suited to the ports? think there 32mm?
please note my challenge is to make a fun engine to drive using my existing lump! I'm not to bothered about speed and bhp figures
sorry 4 essay and cheers
i also found this site so i know it can be done but wondered if you guys reckon it'll be able to take it on standard internals??
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Sept 5, 2011 19:57:08 GMT
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Most engines are quite over engineered and can cope with about 0,5bar boost pressure without too much trouble. But it would be wise to do a search and see if someone has done it before and see what the weak points of the engine are. Making sure cooling (both oil and water) are in order and keeping it on the rich side to prevent detonation will help too. As for turbo charging and bike carbs, I wouldn't do it, you'll have to make quite a difficult inlet track to fit the carbs to the charger without much gain over something like a proper weber. Also, there is more to be found on the web about weber/dellorto's in blow through than bike carbs (although there are people boosting their bikes). When boosting an engine you can use the stock cam (you'll get more power from the boost anyway and hot cams often have lots of overlap) but increasing the exhaust manifold is a good idea, especially when going for a charger, it doens't matter how you get the air out, but do it fast! Good luck with it and show us when the plans materialise!
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pepe
Part of things
Posts: 32
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Sept 5, 2011 21:02:53 GMT
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sorry forgot to paste the link on the last paragraph! www.rhocar.org/index.php?showtopic=31098and this capri has also done it www.fordcapriforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=28918the reason i chose bikecarbs over webers/dellortos is that the bike carbs are proven to be able to handle up to 1bar atmospheric pressure! the charger can be piped onto a sealed plenum on thecarbs also for the price! this is going to be quite a diy budget experiment, if it works ok ill look into spending more money and perfecting it!! thanks for the help so far!!!
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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Sept 6, 2011 19:14:29 GMT
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The 1.5 VW lump is very similar to the 1.6/1.8 as well as the 1.6d, and td. The TD could be raided for bits like the manifolds, and the turbo oil and water feed/return lines, as well as the sump with it's oil return.
If you want to do something different, that'd be fun, why not stick a 160bhp 1.8vvc Rover K-series in there? You could do the swap for a fraction of the cost of boosting the VW motor, plus it'd be lighter, helping the handling, and I'm pretty sure I've never seen it done before.
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pepe
Part of things
Posts: 32
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Sept 6, 2011 21:28:58 GMT
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there are so many good powered engines that i could fit in etc but i think that might be too easy tbh, i wanted to set myself a challenge and stick with the original engine (at least until it gives up! lol) yeah i was thinking about using cooling parts from the td the, wont need any manifold parts, as it will be a custom bike carb manifold and plenum and then piping straight to the supercharger not a turbo (sorry didnt make it clear that I'm using a charger and not a turbo)
i am starting a new course soon in fabrication after 8 years as a chef so i should be able to make my custom fabrication stuff pretty cheap
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murran
Part of things
Posts: 610
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Sept 7, 2011 21:38:37 GMT
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the modifying route with these engines are tried and tested over the last 20 years. why try to reinvent the wheel with a rover engine conversion. your after a drivable car? whack a replacement weber carb on it. pull a cam out of a mk2 digifant gti and fit that. and free flowing exhaust manifold as you mentioned. its done..... anything else with the standard lump and your flogging a dead horse.
oh and ive had 2 1500 mk1's, 2 sciroccos (1800 carb scala and a scala inj. and also a k-jet mk2 golf gti.
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the modifying route with these engines are tried and tested over the last 20 years. why try to reinvent the wheel with a rover engine conversion. your after a drivable car? whack a replacement weber carb on it. pull a cam out of a mk2 digifant gti and fit that. and free flowing exhaust manifold as you mentioned. its done..... anything else with the standard lump and your flogging a dead horse. oh and ive had 2 1500 mk1's, 2 sciroccos (1800 carb scala and a scala inj. and also a k-jet mk2 golf gti. But that's the whole point, OP doesn't want to go down the tried and tested route, he want's to do something different. I could have achived the same power with my car going the same route as everyone else, but wheres the fun in that.
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Sept 8, 2011 19:32:50 GMT
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How about tracking down a Renault 5 GT turbo carb and adapting a manifold to fit? That comes off a 1.4l engine so should be close to what you need; people have tuned the nuts off them over the years so there should be plenty of potential to increase fuelling if not sufficient.
I like the bike carbs idea as well, this might just be a slightly easier solution and something else to look at though.
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1989 Peugeot 205. You know, the one that was parked in a ditch on the campsite at RRG'17... the glass is always full. but the ratio of air to water may vary.
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murran
Part of things
Posts: 610
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Sept 10, 2011 16:33:24 GMT
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tried and tested works well tho.
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Sept 11, 2011 14:41:34 GMT
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The Renault is a Solex carb as well so it doesn't look out of place. Just don't forget to put a (Malpassi ) rising rate fuel pressure regulator, but with some modifcations the standard carb (or a bigger one from a other VW engine) will do the trick. You just need to pressurize the float chamber in a blowthrough setup and make sure the float doesn't collapsed under pressure.
Although the compresion ratio is quite low, it doesn't imply that the pistons remain in one piece under the high load (temperature) caused by the extra pressure. If you put an intercooler and stick to the 0.5 bar pressure, you will probably be ok.
The ignition needs to be retard (or was it advanced?) with a few degrees under pressure. So you will need to modify the distributor.
But 110-120hp looks feasible with such a setup.
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Click picture for more
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pepe
Part of things
Posts: 32
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Sept 12, 2011 21:34:45 GMT
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^ i have tought about this or dellorto do a turbo carb but dunno the port sizes, I'm choosing bike carbs because A) they're cheap and easy to match up to port sizes which makes them alot more efficient and B)they can take up to 1 bar atmospheric pressure before adverese effects so if i enclose them in a sealed plenum ill be ok, which will be easy! i was planning on using a small intercooler in the huge gap on the passenger side as an fmic might be over kill and a small ic off maybe a shogun/scooby
like i say not in it for figures or break any landspeed just be nice to have a challenge that nobodys done and a car thats as fun to drive as it sounds!
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murran
Part of things
Posts: 610
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Sept 15, 2011 18:54:58 GMT
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ic off a mk2 gtd?
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pepe
Part of things
Posts: 32
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Sept 16, 2011 15:44:18 GMT
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dunno tbh, lotus espit turbo has them thats about all i know of but I'm sure there will be many more!
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Sept 16, 2011 18:23:15 GMT
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they can take up to 1 bar atmospheric pressure before adverese effects so if I enclose them in a sealed plenum ill be ok One Bar Atmospheric rating means they are only rated to deal with the ambient air pressure. It doesn't mean they will be ok up to 1 bar of boost, which is actual 2 bar atmospheric (1bar above atmospheric + 1 bar atmospheric = 2bar boost.
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1994 Rover Metro 1994 Peugeot 405 Estate 1991 Rover Metro Gti 16v 2001 Fiat Seicento Sporting 1999 Fiat Punto 1.2 1994 Peugeot 106 Xnd (x3) 1991 Westfield 7 2004 Landrover 110 SW 2003 Seat Ibiza 1.9Tdi Sport 1959 Ford 107e Prefect 1992 Suzuki Vitara 2008 Skoda Fabia
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pepe
Part of things
Posts: 32
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Sept 16, 2011 19:24:07 GMT
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Hmmm i see what your sayin but surely atmospheric pressure would start at 0bar? Like all other units of measure ment? if air pressure got any higher the carbs would be working outside thier guidelines?? Sondo you think they wouldnt work with approx 0.5bar of boost??
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Sept 16, 2011 19:42:55 GMT
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Based on the engine you have and the info given I would turbo your engine, the JB's compression is low enough to use 1bar of boost. Personally I would forget the bike carbs unless you take a high compression, high revving route. You can get yourself a plenum with fuel rail from a MK3 GTi or Cabrio Avantegarde (AGG) and you could megasquirt it for cheap and build it yourself (if your into it). don't be tempted to use a TD manifold as these are very resrictive, there are plenty of cheap ones out there that will do a much better job, turbo wise, T3's are cheap with internal W/gates secondhand and were fitted to Fiats, Lancias & cosworths. All the other parts, like fans, rads, Intecoolers can be scavanged off many different vehicles in the scrappy Get it done already All the above can done for cheap and will get your imagination going
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Sept 16, 2011 20:37:55 GMT
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1994 Rover Metro 1994 Peugeot 405 Estate 1991 Rover Metro Gti 16v 2001 Fiat Seicento Sporting 1999 Fiat Punto 1.2 1994 Peugeot 106 Xnd (x3) 1991 Westfield 7 2004 Landrover 110 SW 2003 Seat Ibiza 1.9Tdi Sport 1959 Ford 107e Prefect 1992 Suzuki Vitara 2008 Skoda Fabia
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pepe
Part of things
Posts: 32
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Sept 16, 2011 20:51:10 GMT
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Ah Al!! Cheers for you input man, thought about throwing this up on the caddy forum but fuess I don't have to now ^thing is I didn't wanna go injection due to extra expense etc, thing is I've already got the carbs (32mm zxr 400) and exhaust manifold, kinda dismissed the turbo route as I thought it would take extra work! Cheers Tom! Learn something new everyday!
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Last Edit: Sept 16, 2011 20:53:20 GMT by pepe
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Sept 16, 2011 21:33:37 GMT
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There's no reason you couldn't use the carbs in a draw through configuration, but going from 4 carbs down to one supercharger back up to 4 intakes will cause a lot of headaches. Better to go from one carb, to one supercharger and keep it simple.
Good luck with the build, an M45 is a lovely piece of kit and will give you torque from the word go right up to the red line. I'm playing with the idea of one on a Suzuki G16B but cant afford that AND the Megasquirt needed to run it properly.........................yet:)
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1994 Rover Metro 1994 Peugeot 405 Estate 1991 Rover Metro Gti 16v 2001 Fiat Seicento Sporting 1999 Fiat Punto 1.2 1994 Peugeot 106 Xnd (x3) 1991 Westfield 7 2004 Landrover 110 SW 2003 Seat Ibiza 1.9Tdi Sport 1959 Ford 107e Prefect 1992 Suzuki Vitara 2008 Skoda Fabia
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pepe
Part of things
Posts: 32
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Sept 16, 2011 23:22:24 GMT
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Never thought about draw through tbh! Only considered blow through! What I'm probably gonna do is bike carb it etc then while I'm running it get everything ready to put the compressor on it, found a few sites where people are very happy with their charged bike carbs! Quite a few minis, pintos and a few kit cars so think I'm just gonna do it as long as it's not rediculous and my engine pops on the first run haha!
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