Lotus Elite: Lots of Trouble....EXCELlent news P33

[Mystery Machine]

Jun 20, 2012 7:11:40 GMT Clement said:

I think you're the only person in doubt here, the rest of us is just watching in awe I really like the idea of almost-original-wheels-but-not-quite-when-you-look-closely, I'm sure it will be a pleasure to look at!

When I first stumbled across the Trans Am wheels I was sold from the outset.

I'd seen them on photos of Trans Ams in the past but they tend to get overlooked in favour of the more popular snowflakes (which I also love, but not for the Elite!)

I just happened to be browsing wheels on eBay when I stumbled across a set and immediately everything clicked into place. This, I suddenly thought, is THE wheel for the car. Don't get me wrong, I love the Compomotives that I'd bought and they do look immense in the flesh, but it was only when I found myself coming back to this picture a lot that it dawned on me I have a lot more love for the original wheels on the original car (rather than seeing them on other vehicles which is more the case nowadays) than I acutally realised:



I always liked them on the Elite, but they never looked quite right. Perfect design but just a teeny bit too small. The picture of them on the car on the back of the flatbed makes them look a lot better because the front is a LOT lower than standard. This really enhances the wheels and I knew there was a lot of merit in looking for something along these lines but in a 15" rather than a 14".

I then started looking at all the wheels that had a similar style/look. Ronal R10's were a possibility but they aren't anywhere near dishy enough and I'm not overly keen on the way they can look almost bland and fussy at the same time! Compomotive TH Monos were another consideration but they tend to look more motorsport than 70's turbine - I guess it's their fairly flat face and only dished area around the wheel bolts that aren't quite right for what I am looking for.

R10 - I really like them but just think they always suit small Euro hatches more.


TH Mono - beautiful wheel but not right for the Elite.


I then started looking at the Ronal R50 design (Aero16) but the centres are just too far out of the rim, too flat and too fussy. Even if I had them machined smooth to remove the lettering and polished the centres, I just can't see them working?


The only wheels that really seemed to fit the bill in any shape or form were the Impul Silhouette:



...and the Schmidt TH Line


I adore the Impuls like crazy. The smoothness of them, the dish, the space age looks...everything about them is pretty much perfect for the Elite. Except for two things: rarity and cost. Finding a set was always going to be hard enough (and I've only ever seen them in 17" which I think is probably a bit too big for the aesthetics of the Elite) but then it's affording a set. Probably somewhere around £1,500!! I've ruled them out simply due to the fact I'd probably lose the will to live getting a set.

Schmidt TH lines fit the bill really well. They come in a massive range of sizes (15" or 16" being the optimum size for the Elite I reckon) and they look very much like an updated version of the original Lotus turbines. The only thing that really stopped me is the slightly blingy looks. I could probably justify buying a set if/when I do have some money (anywhere between £700 and £1,000 usually) but I'm kind of worried that they just won't work quite as well as I'd like due to the slight fussiness of the split rim bolts etc... They've lost the edge of simplicity that the originals have. In some shots they look awesome and pretty much perfect, but in others they just look ever so slightly complicted and....also....still a bit blingy!


I'd pretty much decided on trying to find a set of TH Lines to borrow just to offer up to the car and see how they looked, but then I spotted the Trans Am wheels and the penny dropped. Here I was looking at THE perfect wheel for the car. I just knew they had the right balance of dish, simplicity, 70's looks, size etc...to work so well on the Elite. Plus they are little heard of outside of the US so it wouldn't look like I've just rocked up at a VW show and bought a set of rims off a Golf/Polo etc...and slapped them on my car in the hope of scoring some scene points.

They just seemed to tick every box. And then some.

Once I knew I wanted some, I started looking and found I could get a set for about £300 (possibly less) but there seemed to be some confusion over the widths. Most people list them as 8" wide but I'd seen some advertised that were clearly 7" wide and I didn't know if this sacrificed some of that awesome dish? Also it was a case of finding someone willing to ship them to the UK?

Maybe it's the backspacing that's different whilst the 'dish' remains the same, in which case I would be happy to rock a set of 7's if they have the same amount of dish as the 8's. That was when I stumbled across this set that had a cheap start price AND the seller was willing to ship to the UK.

I reckoned with the 'right' profile and width of tyre these could look so damn right on the Elite. PLUS, if I adapted the hubs to allow these to bolt straight on, I also had a set of 7" Turbovecs in the exact same stud pattern. Extra double bonus for a spare set of 70's wheels that will fit!

It seemed like a foolproof plan but in the back of my mind, even though these seemed to be the perfect wheel for what I was after, there was always that factor of wheels that look perfect yet just somehow don't work as well once they are offered up to the car. As I've said already, it was quite a gamble to take....especially as I've no longer got the lovely Compomotives to fall back on.

[adam3442]

I have serious wheel envy!

[craig1010cc]

They look ace bruce, and worst case I'm sure the VW boys would have paid you more than the costs if it hadn't of worked

[alolympic]

Bruce, these wheels have finally done it. If I'm honest, I didn't feel the Compos as I love the original rims, and I was starting to wonder if the new wheels were a novelty, because they were different, but not really better. For this reason, I couldn't get mega excited about your plans.
These wheels....well...wow!
Genius, a beautiful variation on the original design, with extra attitude and originality. Now I'm feeling it!

[skinnylew]

Wow they are stunners!! As you say the Compomotive TH's are too motorsporty that's why the Ax is running on them (hopefully!) lol

It's gonna be awesome with those wheels.

[whyso]

How come you think the originals look small?



Can't wait for the wheels to come on yours.

[pablopancake]

ooooooooooooffffff

[mdh]

Nice!! I wasn't 100% sure when I saw that little pic but the bigger pic looks way better and they look spiffing on the car too.

Def don't polish them, they need that satin look or they'd look too bling.

Nice work mate!

[Mystery Machine]

This is the funny thing, all along I was completely sold on the wheels...convinced they were the right thing for the car. As it seems, most of you can see this too, so I don't think I was a million miles the other side of wrong for choosing them. They ticked all the right boxes, they looked right and I just knew they would work.

That was until I put a tyre on one....

My plan was to use 225/50/15's which are a nice size with a decent amount of sidewall and no stretch. I bought one off eBay for 99p which Ben90210 kindly collected for me yesterday and will be dropping in by RobinXR4i when he collects it from Ben on the way to Area 52 this weekend.

Being the impatient sort, I didn't think I could really wait until the weekend so I wondered over the road to the tyre place and borrowed the nearest tyre size they had, a 215/50/15. They kindly popped it on one of the rims for me and I excitedly headed over to the unit to try it on the car.

That was when things went rapidly downhill!

From some angles it just looked 'OK'.....not the WOW factor I was looking for.


From other angles, I was still only getting a mild reaction to seeing them on the car








.....but when I saw the wheel from certain angles, it just looked totally wrong! Not a little bit....TOTALLY!


Especially from any angle looking along the line of the wheel rather than into it:



I can't put my finger on it, but it just suddenly lost all impact and wow factor. All of it. I think it might be the outer rim and fins being so flat? Or the way it sits right out to the edge of the arch? It's so hard to say, but I was left feeling very, very underwhelmed! Extremely, in fact.

I guess it was because I had expected them to be perfect but for some inexplicable reason, they weren't. On paper, in pictures, in my head I just couldn't imagine a better wheel, but as I explained earlier, until they are on the car then all bets are off. I'd taken a big gamble, sure it was going to pay off, but alas this time I had lost. You've got to gamble big to win big, but the flipside is you also lose big if things don't pan out.

I guess this is one time where my odds were, for some reason, stacked against me despite all the initial signs pointing towards a dead cert.

Oh well, gutted....but more determined than ever to find the 'right' set of wheels now.

I came home last night and photoshopped the car much lower over the wheels (not slammed, probably more the kind of height I'll be running the car) to see if this changed the look.



I have to say, it did improve things quite a bit, but I still reckon there is a fundamental issue with these wheels and this car (and my expectations) that I reckon I won't be able to address, no matter how much I try and make them work. Do I hang onto them in case I change my mind? Maybe I should give them another go soon....



....but don't be surprised if you see an advert before the weekend. Gutted.

[mt2man]

I personally think they look great! As much as people may hate the suggestion of a little stretch it may work nicely, not too much mind.

A little less sidewall and/or slight stetch and i think it would take abit of the "flatness" off.

I like them

[MiataMark]

I'm really no expert on this, but wouldn't it be prudent having made the investment to wait until the body is finished and in it's final colour (assuming it's not going to stay black). I can see where you're coming from side on they look great, sideways not so good.

How does the overall radius with those tyres compare to the originals? I don't think you want more sidewall and any less is going to start looking "rubber band". (I personally don't like the stretched look).

Mark

[adrianthompson]

I've been reading RR for about 4 years now, but this thread may me register.

Please don't sell the wheels I think they are perfect. It's the tire that's throwing it off. I'd look for something with a little less sidewall, but most important a smother side profile and less visible sipes. It's the edge of the tread and all the lettering that's making it look fussy. I think the right tire could make it perfect.

[VIP]

I think it's that age old factor of the tyre making the wheel again.

Think back to Leigh's sketches of the Elite, everything is exaggerated and over emphasised in a 'prototype' sort of way, and square shouldered tyres just don't seem to help with that look. I honestly think you could put the same tyre on any wheel and end up with the same 'meh' reaction when you look at it.

[EmDee]

Well I don't see anything wrong with those at all, I think they look chuffing amazing. Are you sure you're not just sleep deprived/on crack and been staring at them too long? Just imagine those babies on the finished car with some white tyre lettering...

Although I sort of feel like I should be telling you they look curse word and you've been ripped off so I can snap them up...

[Mystery Machine]

I know what everyone is saying and last night, after giving it a lot of thought, I decided to give way to my initial choice and try on something with less sidewall and a little less width. If I were to keep the wheels it would need it anyway because the tyre catches the arch as the wheel turns lock to lock (quite badly on the lower leading edge of the arch)

I have looked at various tyre sizes and deduced that a 195/45/15 is about the only thing that will fit if I am to keep these wheels. I'm going to pop back over to the tyre place tomorrow and see if I can 'exchange' my borrowed 215/50 for a 195/45. If that doesn't work then the wheels will definitely be up for sale.

I'm 50% convinced it's the tyre, but equally, 50% convinced it's the outer section of the wheel itself because of how flat it is. I am pretty certain that even a different tyre, no matter how much it improves the overall look, will address the issue of the wheel looking really flat and awkward from some angles. I guess you really need to see it in the flesh to fully understand where I'm coming from.

As most of you will know, I am pretty good at visualising things rather than just taking what's in front of me, but I just can't see these wheels working how I want. I'll certainly give it a go and I'll be more than happy if it does work, but for the timebeing I'm remaining very sceptical.

[whyso]

I got an idea of how to get rid of what you don't like about these wheels. Essential for the S1 Elite look is the black turbines and the black flat middle part. I you paint only the parts black which are black at the originals it will probably not look so flat any more, and the rips of the turbine are not so much emphasized any more. I hope you get my idea. Probably the tire problem does not bother so much any more than. The extremeness of the angles and the faltness of the wheel actually correspond quite good with the angles and straight lines of the car.

[Seth]

Jun 20, 2012 14:17:46 GMT whyso said:

I got an idea of how to get rid of what you don't like about these wheels. Essential for the S1 Elite look is the black turbines and the black flat middle part. I you paint only the parts black which are black at the originals it will probably not look so flat any more, and the rips of the turbine are not so much emphasized any more. I hope you get my idea. Probably the tire problem does not bother so much any more than. The extremeness of the angles and the faltness of the wheel actually correspond quite good with the angles and straight lines of the car.

/\ That's a good point. Do a shop (or maybe use black tape on the wheels themselves) with just the very tops of the vanes black/dark grey. They (which are the flat element of the design) will probably disappear somewhat leaving just the dish to really catch the eye.

[mdh]

Its that tyre! Its just fugly mate, its an old nasty budget tyre shape.

Try something sexier on that wheel and it'll stop dragging the wheels down.

[Mystery Machine]

Thanks for the comments guys, and Wyso, that's a really neat suggestion. I'd been thinking about the possibility of getting those fins machined back about 3/4" from the front face to make the outer lip and the edge of the bowl stand out more, but after chatting to Dez about it, it's a possible idea that might work, but a lot of hassle and expense if it doesn't.

Your idea acheives a similar result without any of the expense or the risk of losing value from a nice set of wheels.

I've done a quick (AKA poor) photoshop of how it might look and will certainly try that idea out with some black tape I've got at the unit. It won't cost me any more than my time and might just help. I'll also be getting the tyre changed as I mentioned before, so maybe the two changes will work a bit better.



Only time and some effort will tell.

Thanks again everyone for the suggestions.

[craig1010cc]

Dec 23, 2011 22:01:51 GMT leigh said:

I like it Bruce, was a bit unsure at first and then the Syd Mead ness of it hit me.


I also had the pens out today

If you look at teh top scetch (scetch doesn't do it justice, its art of the highest order), the tyre profile is band like, I think teh 45's are going to help a great deal. I like the idea of painting the vains all black so you only see the dish and the rim

Stick with it Bruce, you'll get there (and I love the fact you have a tyre fitter that will lend you a tyre for trial fitting )