1973 MGB GT- A little rust 30/08

[adam73bgt]

Dec 3, 2013 13:15:47 GMT task said:

Keep the BGT!

I've enjoyed reading your journey with this car, reading about the enjoyment it brings you is one of the things that spurs me on with my project. You'd probably end up regretting selling the B, you could always turn it into a GTC rep and fit the straight 6 to the B

Like you say, it's quite a risk going from a fairly sorted classic you're using as a daily to an unknown.

Thanks! a straight 6 in the B would be best of both worlds I suppose, though that gets me thinking about how easy/difficult it would be to persuade a small Mazda V6 to fit...

[ChasR]

Dec 3, 2013 11:58:26 GMT adam73bgt said:

Dec 3, 2013 11:51:24 GMT Rich said:

But do you? Do you want a sports car or a practical saloon/estate? Don't expect the 2000 to be in anyway like the B except age..

I am torn between the two, that straight 6 is calling Ideally I'd have both I suppose.. I think I fancy a change, but then maybe thats because I haven't done anything particularly exciting to the MG for a bit. Plus if the MG is going to be nice and work properly now, do I want to risk getting another 40 odd year old car that may have all the same issues I've already fixed with this one?

It's a conundrum

Compared to a 'B a Triumph saloon is certainly more of a cruiser. They feel more refined though than a 'B (dare I say it, even over other contemporary classics), due to their suspension design and torsional rigidity (it took manufacturers a while to make a car which had a shell as strong as the saloons did in the family sector. I certainly like them, but it would have to be a Mk1 whose values it seem are only going one way at the moment... They are quite frugal mind you are the 2000 engines and cheap to maintain due to the sheer volume of them made.

The Stag is based on the saloon cars, albeit with not quite a strong a shell despite the T-Bar.

[adam73bgt]

Dec 4, 2013 0:12:30 GMT ChasR said:

]Compared to a 'B a Triumph saloon is certainly more of a cruiser. They feel more refined though than a 'B (dare I say it, even over other contemporary classics), due to their suspension design and torsional rigidity (it took manufacturers a while to make a car which had a shell as strong as the saloons did in the family sector. I certainly like them, but it would have to be a Mk1 whose values it seem are only going one way at the moment... They are quite frugal mind you are the 2000 engines and cheap to maintain due to the sheer volume of them made.

The Stag is based on the saloon cars, albeit with not quite a strong a shell despite the T-Bar.

Mmm it would be a different driving experience, I suppose a little bit more refinement would be nice since the MG's suspension is 1950's in design if I remember correctly? Though a refresh of the perishable components would no doubt work wonders.

There seem to be very few coming up for sale at the moment, and most ones in my price range look to need quite a bit of work to get them looking semi presentable which is putting me off.

I shall concentrate my efforts on the MG for the time being I think, though we'll see what happens if I have a tough time getting it through the next MOT the salt can't be doing it much good

[adam73bgt]

Its just occurred to me that the lack of refinement in the B is largely linked to the windows sealing poorly to the frame despite new door seals last year, I need to figure out a way of sorting that still...

[ChasR]

Window runner alignment . It's a doorcar off job however, as the 1/4 light may need to be jigged about as well to reach a compromise between a stiff window and one which seals simultaneously. Where did you get your seals from?

The rears should seal well however. I had the problem of where screwing them back in was fun without to help of an assistant due to how tight the seals pressed against the glass. It did not leak mind you (bar the tailgate seal, despite being new.

On a 'B IME, the biggest difference for mine was going to Spax dampers on the back (besides bumpers being more torelable, motorway driving was transformed) in addition to Superflex bushes in the shackles where the springs meet the axle(I ended up with a comfier road, and a more pliant rear end without becoming wallowy). Even the chap who bought it was quite surprised at just how well it drove (it was quite unMGB like). The sorted 2000 I drove however was like a new car in its ride in comparison. But after the amount he threw at that car, I would want nothing less (new springs, uprated dampers, Superflex bushes throughout, a 180BHP engine...).

[adam73bgt]

Dec 4, 2013 0:31:05 GMT ChasR said:

Window runner alignment . It's a doorcar off job however, as the 1/4 light may need to be jigged about as well to reach a compromise between a stiff window and one which seals simultaneously. Where did you get your seals from?

The rears should seal well however. I had the problem of where screwing them back in was fun without to help of an assistant due to how tight the seals pressed against the glass. It did not leak mind you (bar the tailgate seal, despite being new.

On a 'B IME, the biggest difference for mine was going to Spax dampers on the back (besides bumpers being more torelable, motorway driving was transformed) in addition to Superflex bushes in the shackles where the springs meet the axle(I ended up with a comfier road, and a more pliant rear end without becoming wallowy). Even the chap who bought it was quite surprised at just how well it drove (it was quite unMGB like). The sorted 2000 I drove however was like a new car in its ride in comparison. But after the amount he threw at that car, I would want nothing less (new springs, uprated dampers, Superflex bushes throughout, a 180BHP engine...).

Eugh that doesn't sound much fun, the stuff inside the doors isn't in a great way.. I can't remember to tell the truth but I got a full set and found the rear windows sealed very tight indeed! and the door seals were a huuuge improvement on the ones that were on the car which I have a feeling could well have been original

My B doesn't really leak but the wind noise is pretty loud at speed (to be expected I know) but you can see the gaps, I'll get the doorcard off and have a jig about with it then I reckon, need to get in there to finally fit a proper mirror which is a job thats been waiting since we last had snow

I did have some Spax dampers but sold them due to needing the money, will keep an eye out for a cheap set. Suspension tweaks have been on my to do list for about as long as I've had the car so I think its about time I put some money and time into the suspension!

[Rich]

I converted our car to spax dampers, it was awful. They left about 1 1/5" of suspension travel because the shocks specified are too long for the application. There was well over an inch of travel left before the bump stops were doing their job but the shocks were already bottomed out.
Definitely NOT worth the money they charge for the kits.
I then used some short gas shocks as a last resort to get the car on the road, which locked the axle solid. Went back to the lever arm dampers and haven't looked back since. I think Half the problem with the spax conversion is the shocks face forwards, which in my mind is totally wrong.
The biggest thing I found to make the B refined in corners at least is the addition of a panhard rod. But after the damper debacle I made my own kit rather than buy off the shelf parts..

[ChasR]

Without derailing the thread, even with my 'B lowered the dampers never bottomed out. They did change the kits about, which had different length dampers over the years where some chaps acquired the 'wrong' dampers. What were the other dampers? I know that even though my 205 has a pliant rear end the replacement shocks on a 'B or my 944 would probably lock out solid (they were almost impossible to shift in by hand were the 205 items, to the point where I was worried about fitting them onto 205 until discussing my finding with the vendor!).

Saying that, with the car stationary, the rear end was hard to move at all, but it was another story on the road (the difference between a car which would try and switch lanes at anything over 65 on a motorway, even over bumps in town etc. Hoopsontoast here will testify that, and that was on a car running 225 tyres on 15" wheels. Horses for courses though I guess .

[Rich]

Dec 4, 2013 14:39:42 GMT ChasR said:

Without derailing the thread, even with my 'B lowered the dampers never bottomed out. They did change the kits about, which had different length dampers over the years where some chaps acquired the 'wrong' dampers. What were the other dampers? I know that even though my 205 has a pliant rear end the replacement shocks on a 'B or my 944 would probably lock out solid (they were almost impossible to shift in by hand were the 205 items, to the point where I was worried about fitting them onto 205 until discussing my finding with the vendor!).

Saying that, with the car stationary, the rear end was hard to move at all, but it was another story on the road (the difference between a car which would try and switch lanes at anything over 65 on a motorway, even over bumps in town etc. Hoopsontoast here will testify that, and that was on a car running 225 tyres on 15" wheels. Horses for courses though I guess .

I believe the gas shocks I used were mini fronts. It was a stab in the dark though and I know that that was my error not spax, but if they have changed they design that could well be why I ran into problems. Mine is very well behaved on the lever shocks though, it was just badly located in corners. Was never jittery though. Weird

[adam73bgt]

Hmm interesting findings on the tube shocks, I did see on some of the kits that it recommends not to use them with lowered cars and mine is a little lower than standard due to the lowered front springs and (I'm assuming) tired rear springs.. I'm not entirely sure if I have any issues with axle location on the rear, I have had very light tyre rubbing on one side once under heavy cornering but I suppose I'd have to drive a car with a panhard rod to see what the difference is truly like

Interestingly I just picked up a copy of Practical Classics today and it says about fitting parabolic rear springs and tube shocks to rear to improve the handling, seems like quite a bit of expense to me :/

[ChasR]

It is an expense, although the chaps I have spoken to with them (including a parts man at a local dealer) seem to be saying they are very much worth it, almost as if they wondered why they pondered for so long on the decision. Mono leaf springs from Carbon fibre are a better choice, but they are even pricier!

Saying that, simply greasing/oiling your existing springs may bring back a bit of life .

[adam73bgt]

They'll have to wait for the future unless I find a set miraculously cheap as my student budget doesn't have much room for manoeuvre

Yeah I'll have to see what I can do with what I have really, the back end isn't too bad I suppose but it is noticeably stiffer than the front which I guess is down to the tired springs and/or dampers

The other thing is that I quite like the ride height at the back of the car and I don't want to gain height by fitting new springs but that can always be rectified by lowering blocks no doubt...

[adam73bgt]

Good news! I finally managed to track down my shiny new exhaust system



Stainless and new, much unlike the one thats currently crumbling away underneath the MG

The back box won't be going on though, I'll be using the stainless twin exit box thats on there at the moment as I like the look and sound of it, it's going to the garage on monday to have it fitted, I would have done it myself but I don't fancy tackling the downpipe studs/nuts (plus I'm not paying for it lol)

Should also be buying some tyres tonight hopefully so new wheels are definitely on their way on to the car, its only taken about a year....

[adam73bgt]

Well after a bit of waiting around, the MG has a shiny new exhaust system

No pictures unfortunately but there are advantages across the board: it doesn't hang as low as the old one, it isn't crumbling away, its louder from outside yet somehow quieter inside than the stock system with new back box, its now bolted at the back rather than cable tied and after a little fiddling with the carbs there was no more hesitation on acceleration and the car seems to be a lot more eager to accelerate

So its safe to say the motivation is back with the MG and I'm 90% sure I shall be keeping it for the forseeable future

Which means I'm thinking of more stuff to do to it.. currently been considering Megajolt as there are benefits to be had from it with me using the car everyday and it seems like a fairly straightforward and relatively cheap upgrade to do, theres a kit from trigger wheels which is just over £300 all in, could probably get this down a bit with scrapyard parts.. Some investigation needed methinks

Other things discovered while under the car include oil leaks coming from the tappet chest covers on the side of the block (need a pair of new gaskets for this) and what looks to be a bit of an oil leak from the back of the overdrive where the prop comes out, so I'll be keeping a close eye on oil levels!

[andyborris]

I had parabolic springs on a 200 hp V8 BGT, still with levers. Nice ride, predictable handling and a good stance when I fitted Escort lowering blocks (don't buy MBG blocks twice the price and no different!).

I think levers are fine, just use good ones, not some knackered or "lick of paint" reconditioned ones!

[adam73bgt]

Mm I think the rear springs are a bit stiff on the B at the moment as its a bit jarring over bumps, also you can feel it sqiurm side to side a bit if you hit bumps mid corner, which is where I think Rich's suggestion of a panhard rod or similar could come in handy.

Some time ago I was looking into uprating my existing lever arms at the front using the uprated valves that Moss sell, the main stuff I want to do at the moment is polybush the front and fit some negative camber wishbone arms

To be honest, theres so many suspension and steering upgrades out there for the MGB I'm a bit spoilt for choice as to what to do first

[RetroWarwicK]

Dec 9, 2013 15:21:53 GMT adam73bgt said:

currently been considering Megajolt as there are benefits to be had from it with me using the car everyday and it seems like a fairly straightforward and relatively cheap upgrade to do, theres a kit from trigger wheels which is just over £300 all in, could probably get this down a bit with scrapyard parts.. Some investigation needed methinks

i have a omex ignition only ecu and loom going spare....think its 200 series. built and ready to go. bought it originally to use on the mini but went fully fuel and spark instead. its mapped for a 205gti IIRC. i've get the box out to see what it comes with. probably need a trigger wheel, coil pack etc. certainly way less than £300

[adam73bgt]

Dec 9, 2013 15:46:55 GMT RetroWarwicK said:

Dec 9, 2013 15:21:53 GMT adam73bgt said:

currently been considering Megajolt as there are benefits to be had from it with me using the car everyday and it seems like a fairly straightforward and relatively cheap upgrade to do, theres a kit from trigger wheels which is just over £300 all in, could probably get this down a bit with scrapyard parts.. Some investigation needed methinks

i have a omex ignition only ecu and loom going spare....think its 200 series. built and ready to go. bought it originally to use on the mini but went fully fuel and spark instead. its mapped for a 205gti IIRC. i've get the box out to see what it comes with. probably need a trigger wheel, coil pack etc. certainly way less than £300

And this is precisely why this forum is such a bad/good place hmm I shall have a read up about omex stuff and see what disposable I have at the moment

I suppose the other thing is that with mappable ignition, I'm only a couple of belts, pulleys and an eaton away from even more power...

[andyborris]

Dec 9, 2013 15:45:45 GMT adam73bgt said:

To be honest, there's so many suspension and steering upgrades out there for the MGB I'm a bit spoilt for choice as to what to do first

First is to make sure the leaf springs clamps and shackles are in good condition and tight (esp. the clamps, which can work loose!).

If the Lever arms are in good condition, then Superflex the leafs and also the front wishbones. Neg camber is good, but parking will get heavier. A Panhard will help with cornering, made a lot of difference on the girlfiends Sprite.

I think the general rule of thumb is, make sure everything is working properly, before buying any performance parts.

And I think I need another BGT in my life!

[adam73bgt]

Dec 9, 2013 18:21:53 GMT andyborris said:

Dec 9, 2013 15:45:45 GMT adam73bgt said:

To be honest, there's so many suspension and steering upgrades out there for the MGB I'm a bit spoilt for choice as to what to do first

First is to make sure the leaf springs clamps and shackles are in good condition and tight (esp. the clamps, which can work loose!).

If the Lever arms are in good condition, then Superflex the leafs and also the front wishbones. Neg camber is good, but parking will get heavier. A Panhard will help with cornering, made a lot of difference on the girlfiends Sprite.

I think the general rule of thumb is, make sure everything is working properly, before buying any performance parts.

And I think I need another BGT in my life!

Very good advice, I suppose its a bit weird that having driven the car for nearly 2 years I still have no idea if the handling is near what a B should be like or whether I've just gotten used to it.

I'll have a good look around when I'm next under there

And get one! they're cheap and plentiful as far as classic cars go



In other news, I picked up yet another set of wheels for the car today





But don't worry, these are bought just for the tyres! The steels are actually from a ford focus and will be sold on, the tyres are 6 month old Uniroyals with good tread in 185/70 r14 size, give em a bit of a clean and hopefully get the tyres swapped to my alloys this week