eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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thomfr
Part of things
Trying to assemble the Duett again..
Posts: 691
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Goed bezig!!
Thom
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73' Alfa Giulia Super
64' Volvo Duett
65' Volvo Duett
67' Volvo Amazon 123GT
09' Ford Focus 1.8
20' VW ID4
71' Benelli Motorella
65' Cyrus Speciaal
The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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Went ahead and looked for my spare fuel pump. Found it and some other small stuff that really finishes things off.
I resued a clip that keeps the console lid shut some years ago but couldn't find it when I needed it recently. It is now in place! Same with the ashtray. Mine was broken and fell out of its place while driving. Had a good one spare. Unfortanately even though being careful, fitting the spring that keeps it shut broke the lip of the ashtray. Even worse than my original. It's unbelievable how tigh that thing is. Anyway, after having spent the time to clean and paint the spare, I had to resort back to the original one. Though the lip was damaged, there was enough left to get the spring in place so now that stays put as well! Waste of time though, lol.
I checked the fuel pump for likeness and it was indeed not quite the same. So I put some connectors on the ends of the wiring that was left, so if need be I can immediately hook it up without further action/stress. I'm confident that though this one uses a banjo fitting to hook up to the fuel line, and it looks a little small, it fits the lines as fitted and can be made to seal with the standard fuel line clips. Feels slightly better to have that as a backup. Going to try and take the car out on the motorway tonight. Perfect simulation of driving miles and miles at constant speed (should really get the original cruise control fitted as well).
Next up, prepping for the weekend...I'm not too well equipped really. I can sleep and stay dry but have little in the way of options on making myself a warm dinner.
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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Lambda/HEGO sensor and two new H3 lights ordered. Should arrive quick enough to be able to replace if it doesn't put up too big of a fight... I paid a little premium for one with the right connector on it so I wouldn't have to mess with the connectors. Should be plug and play!
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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Well, managed to take the car out for a drive yesterday evening. Just getting some kilometers/miles under my belt to aid the feeling of reliability so I can take it out witout fear, especially with the 350-400km weekend ahead. In the daily I don't even have any consideration about reliability and I'll worry free do hundreds of kilometers on a single day, but with the Granada's history there's always some trepidation. Anyway, driving my girls out to our Millow went well, just a 10 minute drive. I was supposed to go on to a friend, but I found I had forgotten my phone at home and decided to go get that as the girls would summon me when they were done. Picking up my phone anyway I decided to quickly throw the spare fuel pump and bits in the car. Lo and behold what I find in the boot: her little ladyships riding boots and cap. So, back to them to hand them off! Luckily this was mostly on route anyway for meeting up with my friend. On my way there though, the car had the same stumble/hesitation as I noticed in the weekend at around 60k/h. Just for a little bit. The quickest way to my friend was by taking the motorway and with the earlier hesitation in mind I was a little concerned. Getting on the motorway I thought I felt a little bit of a hestitation again, yet the car accelerated nicely to 110km/h. Keeping it steady at around 105 it just rolled on nicely. The five minutes or so it took on the motorway were trouble free. I got there with no further issues. Had a bit of a visit and returned to the girls to pick them up. Again no issues at motorway speeds, now testing up to 130 on a takeover for a short stint as well. Still all good. Picked the girls up and all still well. No more hesitation felt. All in all I feel pretty confident again in the granada. The idle is ok, if just a little less steady than before. The hesitation when there is only for a short while and the car still responds to slowing or speeding up at that point. It doesn't hint of dying in any way. Overall driveability is fine as well, brakes work well but need a bit more of a push than the modern daily. Temp gauge shows the temp creeping up when longer at idle, so the gauge works and tests have show the fans now kick in well before the red zone (although I'd like them to kick in sooner and am considering a manual override switch). I hadn't lost any coolant from the reservoir when I last looked so if there is a leak, it must be very very minor. I've obviously got all fluids with me in good quantities anyway, lol. So the hope is that fixing the sensor will cure anything I think I may have noticed the past few days. But, most importantly, I really enjoyed driving the completed car again. It's such a nice cockpit to be in, feels luxurious and sporty at the same time. The seats are comfy as well as supportive. Engine sounds great, exhaust I'm still trying to decide between just right and a little too loud... But the smiles per miles are definitely high! I hope the pics aren't getting boring, but I enjoy finally being able to take pictures that are not just working on the car shots.     |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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Come to find that today marks the one year aniversary of the loom meltdown...
Back then it was three days before the meeting I had planned to attend, well guess what, that same meeting is my destination for this weekend. So hopefully I won't be thwarted again.
If I don't make it this year I know for sure this meeting and I are cursed...
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,059 
Club RR Member Number: 77
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Glad to hear all is going well eurogranada  Car looks mighty fine for a wash and being used as well 👌 With the temp gauge on the dash showing hotter than you'd ideally like, can you read the ECU date stream at all? You may find the engine isn't running as hot as the dash gauge would have you believe, and if the dash gauge is fed by a single wire sensor on the engine, different rating ones are available  |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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So, my loyal readers might remember that this weekend I had a meeting to go to with the Granada… Well let me document that adventure! I had tested out the Granada as much as possible the last two weeks and found nothing more than an occasional stumble. Probably attributable to the lambda sensor error code in the ecu. So a new one was ordered and on Thursday night I set to replacing it. I dreaded this in advance as my experience with these so far has only been with ones that were stuck fused. I was in for a surprise though, when this one came out with the first twist of the spanner. A further welcome surprise was the no. 22 ring spanner being just big enough to go over the connector and wiring to mate with the hexagonal surface for good grip. So this job was really done in 5 minutes. It took me longer to raise and lower the car than to do the job.    I got another surprise when I went to delete the code from the ecu. Where so far there only was one, there now were two. Both Lambda related. I knew of the bank 2 sensor 2 high current one, but now I had a bank 1 sensor 1 low current one as well! I cleared the codes and that was it. Car started and ran fine. Didn’t think too much of it as I had been driving some time now with a faulty sensor so I put it away for loading it on Friday. Friday came and I loaded the car with everything but the cooler with drinks. Car again started and ran fine. So, inevitably, it became Saturday. I was up early, walked the dogs, loaded the cooler and left around 7:45. I was in for a 175 km drive…. ETA 9:30 ish.  I was a bit anxious but all seemed to go fine. Still, no stereo on etc. focus was fully on the traffic and any noises. The car was actually a joy to drive. And just as I was starting to relax a bit, having done a first general check at 45 km’s into the journey, and now being another 25km’s on, something happened… I lost all engine power in a few seconds! And I was on a three lane motorway with no emergency lane but a sound wall instead. Nowhere to go but forwards with the alarm lights on. I made it to a safe spot to stand. Obviously by now I was curse word and cursing the car and myself and this meetup. I checked the basics. Fluids, fuel, plug leeds, ecu codes etc. Pressures and temps I had been keeping a keen eye on and were all spot on. All seemed basically fine but for the same low current error on the lambda. The car would restart but run badly. Like it had no fuel. Sitting there thinking what to do I was just about to call the emergency services when I tried the car again and it ran normally again. All the while I had suspected the fuel pump, but now I felt this could be a contributor but the lambda will probably be the real issue.  Although I was safe where I stood, getting back on the road was a different matter. No way I had room to speed up and blend with the traffic. And that was hoping it would keep going… So I made the sensible choice and got of the motorway. Car ran well so turned around and got on the motorway again. Got on for another stretch and all went well. I had stopped for a drink along the way and by now I was only 9,5km away from my destination. So about 160km’s had gone by. When I was just off the motorway and on the b roads that also don’t have emergency lanes I felt the power drop off again. I just made it to a fuel station and shut it off. I waited a couple of minutes, had a sip to drink and then tried again. It ran fine again and I made it to the meeting without further issue.    I found myself a nice spot and setup camp. Wasn’t going to be able to do much about anything at this point in time anyway. I’d made it at least!! If not as trouble free as I had liked after all my efforts… So I enjoyed the sun, loads of sun as there was just no refuge from it anywhere. It showed I was not such a meeting regular as I had nothing with me to create some shade, an uncomfortable fold up chair, a leaky airbed that meant sleeping on the ground, no cushion for my head… Nope, got to do better next time. The tent in itself was great. It was bought years ago for I think the 2017 edition of this meetup but now used for the first time.               I talked to loads of people during the day. My car was extremely popular. I’ve had many compliments going much further than a simple best of show. Jumping ahead I was gone before the prizes were awarded so I went away empty handed. But if there’s one thing I found this time around, it’s really far more about the people than the prizes. And in all honesty, not because it’s mine, but my car really was of a different level. Paintwise I only found 3 of the same general quality, but those cars then were sporting broken parcel shelfs, good but patinad interiors etc. So not really in my league. So personally I think of my car as a winner, although I realize how that sounds. I also found that I don’t think I’m really made for this type of meeting. Or at least not going by myself. I had some lonely periods as well just sitting by the car in the ever burning sun and later in the tent. In the evening there was a renewed interest and lots more fun talking to people about cars. But, I think I’m more of a type for meetups that have a tour along with it. Driving the cars, talking cars and stuff. Static displays, well I just don’t know at the moment. Maybe it was because I wasn’t best prepared either and the sun was relentless… Anyway, next morning being up from around seven after being awake even longer, the sun burning down on me again and the terrain emptying I decided to leave just before midday as well. I had a 2 hour drive ahead of me and now, I just knew it wasn’t going to be easy… I set off with the car doing great. I think I covered around 35-40 km’s when I made a first stop. I hadn’t yet felt a single stumble or power drain. I drank some and ate some and went on my way again. Another 40 kilometers passed. Still ok. But from then on it became harder. I made another couple of stops and when I started off again on the onramp it immediately died. I restarted and got on my way but from then on it was more lumpy and less powerful or effortless. I had to make some stops on the motorway emergency lane and tried to get closer to home. But the amount of time the car would run right after code delete and a bit of a wait got so short I just couldn’t assure my safety when the car would die again. So at 30 km from home I surrendered to the triple A. Took me 3,5 hours to get home and the car will be delivered later. It’s being kept in secure storage as I was quite adamant as a previous experience was a little less good. I have to say the triple A is great. If it hadn’t been for the heat I would have been dropped off at home with the car. But the heat meant different rules unfortunately, but understandably. So I ended up with a hire car and my car going in the wrong direction, but hey… could have been worse.       Once at home, and I don’t think I’ve very often been more happy to be home again, I just couldn’t really shake the feeling of being cursed. Either me, the car or this meeting, mostly me (probably from feeling a bit frustrated). I’ve put in blood, sweat, tears and more money than in my situation is really justifiable…and still I can’t seem to catch a break with this car. Maybe it just hates me? But why hate the one person who’s responsible for the car even still being on the road? By now I’m waiting for the car back. Have turned the hire car in again. Didn’t get much sleep last night even though I felt like I’d be out for days. I was worrying about the fix and about how to test without ending up on flatbeds every time. I also kept going round in circles. Was the heat a factor or was it nly the sensor. Is the fuel pump a contributor? Also the transport brought me eye to eye with the lower door edge(s) that despite wax oiling suffer from (only a couple of) blemishes, but they will be a pain to get put right. In my opinion I should take off the full door skins to treat the edges right… On the other hand its such minor stuff that it doesn’t yet warrant action. Or does it? Anyway it is a hassle! And kept my mind uneasy. The car was eventually delivered later at the end of the day. Very nice feller and the same who took the car away from me. He’d felt a certain responsibility given my feelings about all this I think so when the busy day died down a little he asked for permission to bring me my car. Good people in my experience! Anyway, that’s the - never ending – story … Going back to the issue of the power loss, how do I check that. Step one is obviously changing another lambda sensor. Was heat a factor? I still don’t always like the sound of the fuel pump, but I don’t really think at the moment it was the cause. It’s also quite hot under the bonnet, but not enough to warrant the ecu switching on the fans and the fuel lines are short so vapor lock I don’t see happening either. See, I’m going in circles again, lol… But any way forward starts with buying and replacing the sensor. That is one thing I’m sure of. |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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Glad to hear all is going well eurogranada Car looks mighty fine for a wash and being used as well 👌 With the temp gauge on the dash showing hotter than you'd ideally like, can you read the ECU date stream at all? You may find the engine isn't running as hot as the dash gauge would have you believe, and if the dash gauge is fed by a single wire sensor on the engine, different rating ones are available Thanks for the compliment! Good point with regard to the temp gauge/sender. I can't read the ecu data. I do have both the sender type matching the dash and the type going with the engine. As I have had trouble getting the gauge to read, I'm not sure what is now in the engine. I will check! I'd also like to do a measurement of actual coolant/radiator temp. |
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Morning, and sorry to see the car still fighting you.
But you had an adventure and slept on the floor. Perfect.
And a few comments.
Every time I look at this car and the pics you post, including the colour, the more I see stuff I like.
Today my list includes fold down rear seat….. clever stuff on any car.
The rear bank of lights, and the curve it forms, reminds me of earlier mid sized Toyotas.
And again, the 3/4 front angle profile, loving that too.
Last thing though, the pic of the car recovered into the garage, parked between modern cars…….
Where I grew up, around 1974-ish, one of the neighbours had a new one of these at the time and it was always seen as a BIG car.
Same neighbour (three houses down the street) had a HiFi and had Neil Diamond’s HOT AUGUST NIGHT on LP, my parents did not have any of these luxuries but used to stand around smoking, listening to the album out in the street.
Your car despite not being the same colour, brings back great memories of growing up in a less complex time.
Good luck once again in getting it sorted fats.
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Alex, that was quite the adventure. Can imagine how dissapointed you must feel.
Hard to imagine that an O2 sensor code would result in full loss of power. The fuel pump would be my
first suspect, didnt you have a fuel pressure sensor in the car? Would make it easier to rule the pump out.
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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Alex, that was quite the adventure. Can imagine how dissapointed you must feel. Hard to imagine that an O2 sensor code would result in full loss of power. The fuel pump would be my first suspect, didnt you have a fuel pressure sensor in the car? Would make it easier to rule the pump out. That describes exactly my feelings. Although this is the pre cat sensor and I can imagine it having more effect than the post cat sensors, I still felt it weird that it would cause full power loss. On the other hand, the fuel pump did each and every time manage to get the engine going again. It even felt better at higher speeds… I have no way of measuring the pressure… I just can’t fully get my head round it yet. |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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Morning, and sorry to see the car still fighting you. But you had an adventure and slept on the floor. Perfect. And a few comments. Every time I look at this car and the pics you post, including the colour, the more I see stuff I like. Today my list includes fold down rear seat….. clever stuff on any car. The rear bank of lights, and the curve it forms, reminds me of earlier mid sized Toyotas. And again, the 3/4 front angle profile, loving that too. Last thing though, the pic of the car recovered into the garage, parked between modern cars……. Where I grew up, around 1974-ish, one of the neighbours had a new one of these at the time and it was always seen as a BIG car. Same neighbour (three houses down the street) had a HiFi and had Neil Diamond’s HOT AUGUST NIGHT on LP, my parents did not have any of these luxuries but used to stand around smoking, listening to the album out in the street. Your car despite not being the same colour, brings back great memories of growing up in a less complex time. Good luck once again in getting it sorted fats. Thank you for that. Lovely bit of background! |
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Bad luck, at least you and the car are safe, the high and low current usually refer to the heater part of the sensor and shouldn't affect it much once it's warmed up, I'd read the heater resistance on each sensor before replacing them, if they are both the same then perhaps the problem is in the wiring somewhere.
The cutting out sounds very much like something else to me cutting out then re-starting after a few minutes is often fuel supply related so I would not be surprised if the fuel pump is the issue.
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Can I start by saying I know nothing about the "dark art" (electrical issues,) but could it be either a fuse or relay that's overheating and temporarily failing ??
Nigel
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BMW E39 525i Sport
BMW E46 320d Sport Touring (now sold on.)
BMW E30 325 Touring (now sold on.)
BMW E30 320 Cabriolet (Project car - currently for sale.)
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Jun 13, 2023 12:02:54 GMT
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Looking back in the thread you am I correct in assuming have a Facet lift pump which draws from the original pick up, feeds a swirl pot and then the high pressure pump draws from this?
If so where does the engine fuel return feed into, if it's into the swirl pot you could be getting the fuel very hot in which case vapour will form in the swirl pot and the pump may overheat. When it does it again it might be worth feeling the temperature of the pump and swirl pot, ideally it shouldn't be much above ambient.
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thomfr
Part of things
Trying to assemble the Duett again..
Posts: 691
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Jun 13, 2023 12:36:31 GMT
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You have two options in my view (I had a similar issue 8 years ago and it lasted for 7,5 years to be cured 100%).
1.
Throw out the sensors and replace with new, try it and then throw out also the fuel pump(s).
2. Bring it to the mechanic WITH ecu experience on old cars AND a rolling road and throw the keys and say, FIX IT!
I had with my Alfa Giulia a rather similar problem (although the car is on carbs) after a hard bump on the tarmac while practising the Teuven Hillclimb the car would just not run right anymore. Worked on it now and then for years and replaced quite some stuff but it never completely went away.
In the end I left it at my Alfa man of trust(over 40 years in the business) and he did first a complete timing basic set up. checked and adjusted 100 things and now it runs as it did 9 years ago, finally!
I do not know what the problem was but it is solved now.
Thom
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73' Alfa Giulia Super
64' Volvo Duett
65' Volvo Duett
67' Volvo Amazon 123GT
09' Ford Focus 1.8
20' VW ID4
71' Benelli Motorella
65' Cyrus Speciaal
The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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Jun 13, 2023 13:11:06 GMT
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grizz, I saw you add my car in some other threads as well with some nice words to accompany it. I'm a bit humbled. It does me good that other people like what I've done. And despite some luxuries, the car is still a step back in time. Maybe less so than an original one, but still.
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Jun 13, 2023 13:19:42 GMT
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grizz, I saw you add my car in some other threads as well with some nice words to accompany it. I'm a bit humbled. It does me good that other people like what I've done. And despite some luxuries, the car is still a step back in time. Maybe less so than an original one, but still. A pleasure, I am sure agreed with by more than one on here who see and love your build. So often people are quick to criticise, but I think my comments and placement in various threads, are relevant. Many of us do notlooknat all threads or zoom into pics like some do, I certainly don’t. Also, do not make any apologies for standard vs non-standard If a guy in 1972 fitted an 8-Track player it was his personal custom touch and we would all stand around listening to Bridge over Troubled Waters or CSN&Y My dad was a great fan of having a 2-3 year old car repainted professionally in different colours etc. Your car is a reflection of your taste. And thats all that matters. If others love it, great, if not…….. |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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Jun 13, 2023 13:33:15 GMT
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Bad luck, at least you and the car are safe, the high and low current usually refer to the heater part of the sensor and shouldn't affect it much once it's warmed up, I'd read the heater resistance on each sensor before replacing them, if they are both the same then perhaps the problem is in the wiring somewhere. The cutting out sounds very much like something else to me cutting out then re-starting after a few minutes is often fuel supply related so I would not be surprised if the fuel pump is the issue. Thanks for your 2 cents. On the sensor front I can only say that swapping the one that has thrown the error for weeks now, cleared the fault on that side. Also the other side sensor has for the same amount of weeks not given a problem until just this weekend. Those two reasons would lead me to believe the sensor itself must be the problem. I don't think it is very likely that it would now suddenly be wiring, which is all new. Do you happen to know how (which wires) to measure for the resistance? |
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