eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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3cm hailstones! I am suprised there were not people hurt! As for the brakes I would suggest you either get hold of a vacuum fill system or back bleed them using a syringe. To try and find the air try clamping off one flexi hose at a time. It's the only method of bleeding not yet tried so I may just do that... |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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If you're bleeding solo, a trick I was taught was to undo a bleed nipple and run a length of hose from it to a container with brake fluid in. That allows you to pump the pedal and expel the air but the pipe can only suck in brake fluid. Works really well and it's such a simple, low tech solution. The only other thing I can think it might be is a dead brake bias valve or rear brake cylinders if you're still on rear drums. Sounds like a bit of a chore to resolve, whatever is causing it. Could the pedal be adjusted incorrectly? With some cars you can adjust at the pedal and if it's not done correctly you get too much travel and only have braking effort right at the bottom of the travel leading to brakes that feel like they've still got air in them. Thanks for that. When doing the old fasioned pedal bleeding I also always keep the end of the hose emerged. The Mk1 I have, does not have a proportioning valve. The rear cilinders move and there's no fluid leaking past their seals. I inspected them. Likewise, the Mk1 granada does not have an adjustable pushrod or pedal. The pedal simply hangs from a shaft, and has a set of holes in it to fit the pin to connect the pushrod. The pushrod is just a fixed bar with a fork at the end that connects to the brake pedal. The pushrod came into the car at the exact point where the holes in the pedal were. So I'm doubtful of an issue there. I do admit that I will have to check the manual pedal versus the automatic pedal that is in now. I'm sure I did that extensively when converting so in my mind there's very little doubt that the pedals are different. I believe they had all the right holes in exactly the same place and also the same type of curvature. But when doubt sets in there's only one thing for it: double checking! So that is one of two things I'll try: - adding the scorpio one way valve - checking the pedal The only other thing I'm doubting is if the mc is bled well enough. I let gravity do the work... |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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By the way, thanks for thinking with me.
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The Doctor
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,448
Club RR Member Number: 48
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have you bled the brakes after fitting the MC? Because if there was any air still in the MC it would've come out with bleeding the rest of the system after fitting it. I heard about your troubles from the other barn members, really annoying this  |
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I would like some recent pictures of the front calipers and rear brake cylinders...
Also, do you have a union block with a circuit failure warning system? I don't remember if I have asked that.
Are all brake pads/linings/shoes new?
Gustaf
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When are you next going to the barn Alex? Hey Sam, I'm not sure yet. I'm putting things in order to work around the brake issue as effectively as I can. But I need a little time to get my act together for that. I'm aiming to have a long saturday at the barn... Let me know what you are going to be there and if I can I shall come over for a while and have a look, got some jobs to do saturday morning, but should be free all afternoon at the moment. Not saying I'm an expert, but a fresh pair of eyes may spot something overlooked. Have you any pipe clamps you can use to block block off different wheels in turn? this type ideally |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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have you bled the brakes after fitting the MC? Because if there was any air still in the MC it would've come out with bleeding the rest of the system after fitting it. I heard about your troubles from the other barn members, really annoying this I bled the MC itself for one, but simply by using gravity. And afterward I put the 2.0 bar pressure on it with the pressure bleeder. So yes, I bled afterward. I too expected that to in itself push any air through... |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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I would like some recent pictures of the front calipers and rear brake cylinders... Also, do you have a union block with a circuit failure warning system? I don't remember if I have asked that. Are all brake pads/linings/shoes new? Gustaf Thanks Gustav, Pictures are all in my thread somewhere. Nothing was changed since, except the MC. All parts new: hard lines, flex lines, wheel cylinders, calipers, brake pads and even the brake shoes (these are adjusted out as far as I could get them still being able to put the drum on). No I don't have either a proportioning valve or a valve block with warning system. Just two lines and two three way junctions (all clean before fitting up). |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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Hey Sam, I'm not sure yet. I'm putting things in order to work around the brake issue as effectively as I can. But I need a little time to get my act together for that. I'm aiming to have a long saturday at the barn... Let me know what you are going to be there and if I can I shall come over for a while and have a look, got some jobs to do saturday morning, but should be free all afternoon at the moment. Not saying I'm an expert, but a fresh pair of eyes may spot something overlooked. Have you any pipe clamps you can use to block block off different wheels in turn? this type ideallyTonight I'll know for sure if I'm there saturday, but I expect to be there at least till 16:00hrs. As you say a fresh pair of eyes.... Well welcomed by now! No I don't have those clamps and I understood no one in the barn does. |
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I don't know the Granada brake system but this is where I'd start.
Clamp off both front brake flexis and the rear one/two. Try the brake pedal again,engine on/off, it it's fixed you at least know it's a MC/servo problem.
If it's still got excess travel release one flexi at a time and test each time.
I'm assuming the rear drums don't have automatic adjusters? I normally adjust manual ones with the drums on until there's a slight drag, adjusting so you can get the drum on and off easily may be too slack.
Oh and definitely fit the return spring to the pedal.
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Tonight I'll know for sure if I'm there saturday, but I expect to be there at least till 16:00hrs. As you say a fresh pair of eyes.... Well welcomed by now! No I don't have those clamps and I understood no one in the barn does. Cool, let me know what you are planning and I shall try to sort something. I have a set of the pipe clamps I can bring along, can then try blocking off different wheels / combinations of wheels at a time and see what happens I'll PM you my phone number.  |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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I don't know the Granada brake system but this is where I'd start. Clamp off both front brake flexis and the rear one/two. Try the brake pedal again,engine on/off, it it's fixed you at least know it's a MC/servo problem. If it's still got excess travel release one flexi at a time and test each time. I'm assuming the rear drums don't have automatic adjusters? I normally adjust manual ones with the drums on until there's a slight drag, adjusting so you can get the drum on and off easily may be too slack. Oh and definitely fit the return spring to the pedal. Thanks for that. I understand your input but have one question as I rea it before in trying to solve this problem. You also say: clamp off the flex lines as this will prove mc or calliper/wheel cylinder. I don't follow. If air is in the hardlines still, the mc can still be fine. |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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Tonight I'll know for sure if I'm there saturday, but I expect to be there at least till 16:00hrs. As you say a fresh pair of eyes.... Well welcomed by now! No I don't have those clamps and I understood no one in the barn does. Cool, let me know what you are planning and I shall try to sort something. I have a set of the pipe clamps I can bring along, can then try blocking off different wheels / combinations of wheels at a time and see what happens I'll PM you my phone number. Thanks, I'll be at the barn most of the day but for sure the afternoon. Thanks for the pm. And thanks for your offer to help! |
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I don't know the Granada brake system but this is where I'd start. Clamp off both front brake flexis and the rear one/two. Try the brake pedal again,engine on/off, it it's fixed you at least know it's a MC/servo problem. If it's still got excess travel release one flexi at a time and test each time. I'm assuming the rear drums don't have automatic adjusters? I normally adjust manual ones with the drums on until there's a slight drag, adjusting so you can get the drum on and off easily may be too slack. Oh and definitely fit the return spring to the pedal. Thanks for that. I understand your input but have one question as I rea it before in trying to solve this problem. You also say: clamp off the flex lines as this will prove mc or calliper/wheel cylinder. I don't follow. If air is in the hardlines still, the mc can still be fine. In theory yes but the amount of air in the hardlines is going to be very small given all the bleeding you've done, certainly not enough to cause your problems. |
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,280
Club RR Member Number: 146
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It's a sound method clamping the flexis, it is possible your replacement MC is also duff which is annoying but it does happen.
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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One to try - there's no real logic "why" it works, but somehow does.
After bleeding brakes as much as you can, pump the pedal a few times and then chock it down in the pressed position - a suitably sized piece of wood between the seat and pedal is ideal.
Leave overnight.
See how it is the next day after a pump or two.
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gess
Part of things
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I see you have gotten a lot of helpful tips and hints here. Hopefully you will get the brakes fixed now. I have a question, do you bleed the brakes with the handbrake on or off? I assume you have it off, as this affects the bleeding. Another trick I use to do when bleeding is to first bleed the system, then pump the pedal hard five-six times, and keep pressing it hard, and open the bleed nipple, often this expells the last bubbbles of air. this is of course a two man job
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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Looks like at least part of saturday will be used to go through the brakes again... All tips are taken into account when we do so...
Thanks for the support.
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Looking back through the pages...I see this;  Now, it's been ages since I worked on Granada brakes but all other classic Fords I have worked have the brake cylinder on top, not on the bottom like you have them. From memory, putting that would not make the bleed nipple the highest point of the rear brakes meaning you may have a hard time getting the air out. The Motomobil parts diagram also show the wheel cylinder on top. Worth checking at least. I couldn't find any pictures of the front calipers but as I mentioned earlier - make sure they are on the correct side, with bleed nipple at the top. We just made that mistake on the race car a few weeks ago... Regards Gustaf |
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