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Jan 14, 2013 11:11:23 GMT
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Actually despite common missconceptions, it can be possible to transfer a plate without a valid mot, if you write a really grovelling letter to the dvla and find someone who is in a good mood! My aunt managed to get her (relatively worthless) private plate back from a dead car sat on the drive with nothing more than a letter about it! She essentially explained that it wasnt practical to get the car re-mot'd to remove the plate, as it was now a foot or two shorter then designed thanks to some less than perfect driving! (mot expired since the accident) The dvla wrote her a massive letter about how they don't normally do this etc etc etc, then the last few lines said something along the lines of "due to the special circumstances involved we are willing to make a acception in this case" and she got it back..... I suspect it helped that the plate had very little value to anyone other than her, and that she had been the registered keeper of a vehicle bearing that plate for the previous 20 years (or certainly as long as I can remember!) The DVLA form 317 states to put a cherished number on retention and thus be able to transfer to another vehicle the road fund licence should have not run out any more than 12 months prior to the application being made. That means, in thoery, you could could have nearly 2 years from last MOT to when number transfered if the last road fund licence was applied for when there was still 1 day of valid MOT left. ie MOT expired on 1st Jan 2011 but 12 months road fund licence applied for on that date or up to 15 day prior. Road fund licence therefore exprirs on 31st Dec 2012 - 364 days later. The eligible time when a claim to retain the registation can then be made any time up to 31st Dec 2013 - nearly 2 years after expiry of last MOT. OK 2012 was leap year etc but you get the idea. Paul H
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Jan 14, 2013 12:02:01 GMT
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Actually despite common missconceptions, it can be possible to transfer a plate without a valid mot, if you write a really grovelling letter to the dvla and find someone who is in a good mood! My aunt managed to get her (relatively worthless) private plate back from a dead car sat on the drive with nothing more than a letter about it! She essentially explained that it wasnt practical to get the car re-mot'd to remove the plate, as it was now a foot or two shorter then designed thanks to some less than perfect driving! (mot expired since the accident) The dvla wrote her a massive letter about how they don't normally do this etc etc etc, then the last few lines said something along the lines of "due to the special circumstances involved we are willing to make a acception in this case" and she got it back..... I suspect it helped that the plate had very little value to anyone other than her, and that she had been the registered keeper of a vehicle bearing that plate for the previous 20 years (or certainly as long as I can remember!) The DVLA form 317 states to put a cherished number on retention and thus be able to transfer to another vehicle the road fund licence should have not run out any more than 12 months prior to the application being made. That means, in thoery, you could could have nearly 2 years from last MOT to when number transfered if the last road fund licence was applied for when there was still 1 day of valid MOT left. ie MOT expired on 1st Jan 2011 but 12 months road fund licence applied for on that date or up to 15 day prior. Road fund licence therefore exprirs on 31st Dec 2012 - 364 days later. The eligible time when a claim to retain the registation can then be made any time up to 31st Dec 2013 - nearly 2 years after expiry of last MOT. OK 2012 was leap year etc but you get the idea. Paul H never knew that.... so there is no requirement for a valid mot at all then......!!
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Current fleet: '58 A35 (half mine) '67 11 window splitscreen vw (half mine) '77 mini 1000 (not quite 1000 any more!!) '86 Armstrong MT500 '89 XR4X4 '94 Corrado VR6 Some sort of sevenesque kit car (no age yet!!) '01 Mondeo estate 2.0 (engine eventually destined for kit car!) - scrapped, engine only left! '98 E300 estate, rusty but seemingly reliable, fast-ish tat hauler. eventual engine donor A35 van, or whats left of it after it lived in a field for many years
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Jan 14, 2013 12:26:04 GMT
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The DVLA form 317 states to put a cherished number on retention and thus be able to transfer to another vehicle the road fund licence should have not run out any more than 12 months prior to the application being made. That means, in thoery, you could could have nearly 2 years from last MOT to when number transfered if the last road fund licence was applied for when there was still 1 day of valid MOT left. ie MOT expired on 1st Jan 2011 but 12 months road fund licence applied for on that date or up to 15 day prior. Road fund licence therefore exprirs on 31st Dec 2012 - 364 days later. The eligible time when a claim to retain the registation can then be made any time up to 31st Dec 2013 - nearly 2 years after expiry of last MOT. OK 2012 was leap year etc but you get the idea. Paul H never knew that.... so there is no requirement for a valid mot at all then......!! I didn't know for certain either but remembered there was some sort of leaway in the rules so had to search for the answer. It's hidden and not easy to find. Paul.
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kenb
Part of things
Posts: 604
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Jan 14, 2013 14:46:18 GMT
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Jan 14, 2013 15:30:03 GMT
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Sorry but you aren't strictly correct and what I said earlier, other than pre 1960 vehicles, is still applicable - it is last road fund licence that dictates whether transferable and not MOT . The section states - " Conditions for transferring a registration number
You can’t transfer a registration number: starting with ‘Q’ or ‘NIQ’ for Northern Ireland registered vehicles if it will make the vehicle it’s being transferred to look younger Both vehicles must be: registered with DVLA available for inspection of a type that needs an MOT or heavy goods vehicle (HGV) test certificate
Pre-1960 vehicles need a valid MOT to transfer a registration number. Both vehicles should be currently taxed. However, if the vehicle that currently has the registration number is not taxed, you can still apply as long as: the tax disc has run out in the last 12 months there’s no break between the date the tax disc runs out and the start of the SORN (Statutory Off Road Notification)So a post 1960 vehicle only needs to have current or expired no longer than 12 months road fund licence and be of a TYPE that requires MOT or HGV test - ie no road registered lawnmowers, tractors and such. I assume the pre 1960 MOT requirement is a recent addition to the rules / law due to stop people registering & taxing heaps lying around on farms etc, now they no longer are required to obtain an MOT to be used on the road, just to transfer reg. paul H
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Jan 14, 2013 15:49:47 GMT
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I had a LOT of discussions with DVLA and visits to my local DVLA office and the bottom line each time was that they wouldn't even entertain a private reg plate transfer from my GF's previous car to her new car without a current MOT on the donor vehicle. The tax had lapsed 11 moths ago, so we didn't need to tax it, but it still had to be MOT'd. The application would have been refused without a current MOT certificate. As said, this was confirmed each time after speaking to numerous people at DVLA both over the phone (Swansea) and at my local office (Bristol). I'm sure what you are saying can be 'interpreted' from the written info given by DVLA, but just try it yourself and see how far you get. [edit]Copied directly from Form 317 relating the Section 2 (the *donor* vehicle: "You must include the following documents for the vehicle in section 2 • The Registration Certificate (V5C) or New keeper’s details (V5C/2) for the vehicle with an ‘Application for a vehicle registration certificate’ (V62). Note: If any details on the V5C have changed, please fill in the changes section on the V5C. • An MoT or Goods Vehicle Test (GVT) certificate (if appropriate). • The appropriate fee for the transfer or retention."[/edit]
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Jan 14, 2013 16:12:53 GMT
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^^ The reason I spent so long in contact with the DVLA was the way this form conflicted with the wording elsewhere (on their website and a different form I think?) which made it look like you didn't need an MOT. The bottom line is, you do. The car *does* have to be MOT'd unless there are specific circumstances, in which case you have to put a written proposal together with facts and info as to why the car doesn't have an MOT. This will then be independently assessed by someone at DVLA. There is no mention anywhere what these 'specific circumstances' might be and you will only find out by submitting a request in writing.
This is then down to 'someone' to decide if they will allow the transfer or not. There is no measureable criteria with which to base any case for this....it's all very vague and I was told only very few cases are passed. Most are declined because the assessor usually feels it's people trying to avoid MOT'ing a car in order to gain a valuable plate.
As said, you NEED an MOT on the car unless you have some very, very good reason to retain a plate without one. The car will also, almost certainly, be called for a check if this is the case.
I just put my GF's car through an MOT, it passed and handed the documents over becuase it's 100% certain she'd get the transfer that way. Applying without the MOT not only means presenting a good case/argument, but also riksing losing the argument based on what an assessor feels is or isn't a viable argument. After all, they've seen and heard every story in the book, so are pretty wise to most people trying to scoop a plate from a rotten car.
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Jan 14, 2013 16:26:05 GMT
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Was your contact with DVLA by phone or in writing ? The reason I ask is two completley different grades will deal with either and therefore level of skills would answer questions. It is very rare for any Civil Service department to have a somebody other than a lowest grade clerk to answer telephone calls. They then bluff or confuse to try and sort out the call if they can't be bothered to consult with a higher grade with the appropriate knowledge and ring you back. Writing however anything about anything out of the ordinary will be dealt with by somebody who SHOULD be qualified to give the correct answer. I spent 25 years in Civil Service (H M Inspector of Taxes) and it was a constant battle to convince people that what they had been told over the phone by a low grade wasn't necessary always correct (especially if it involved a techincal aspect - we had to train 3 years to be able to deal with those and therefore higher grade / paid a lot more / accountable in law) and writing in so they got a written reply was the only thing that would stand up in law. Personally I've always found a visit to my local (that's a joke as 70 mile round trip so not exactly local anymore) DVLA office well worth the effort than wasting time trying to speak to somebody on the phone. Anyway moral of story is if any doubt (a) get a written answer (b) ask whoever is giving the answer to quote the section of the law which relates to their interpretation. EVERYTHING that a governement department does must be written down somewhere. At one time I had some hassle with the council - they said I had too many vehicles for the size of my property. A simple letter asking them to tell me which section fo the Town and Country planning act stipulated the number allowable soon got them telling me that is was just the opinion for a planning officer and that that had no legally enforcable grounds to require me to reduce the number. Rather they did "don't you think it woudl be nicer for your neighbours" routine. paul H
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Jan 14, 2013 16:36:46 GMT
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As I said, numerous calls, but more importantly, meeting at the local office (luckily only 20 mins away) with an assessor, not jsut over the counter staff...who I must say, also seem to be pretty clued up on all the intricacies.
Despite showing the differences between wordings from the website and the actual form, it was made very clear that I needed an MOTfor the transfer, by someone who came across as 100% fluent in what they were saying (you can tell when someone uses accurate quotes rather than vague statements). I even got a few 'off the record' comments about it being very unlikely that any written request to transfer without a valid MOT would be approved unless the reasons and justification were exceptional and warranted.
Like I say, this isn't interpretation, but first hand experience and facts from trying to do this myself (all thanks to the vague wording in certain parts of the DVLA's own information!)
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Jan 14, 2013 16:48:12 GMT
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I took a Japanese import motorbike for a friend to the old Shrewsbury office on a trailer together with the Japanese registration documents. The bike was inspected and then I was told it'd be issued with a Q reg even though they had managed to translate the registation symbols to identify it's year as 1993. Of course I refused to accept a Q reg so took to the Manchester office next day and they didn't even want to inspect to issue an age related number straight away. Two offices and two different approaches / results for the same query. Not really acceptable - neither is incorrect information on web sites.
Paul H
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kenb
Part of things
Posts: 604
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Jan 14, 2013 17:15:41 GMT
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We're just going around in circles here. Just because it isn't clear on that form, doesn't mean you don't. It says it quite clearly says so on the link I posted, as most front line DVLA officers/clerks will tell you.
You do need a current MoT certificate and the only time it could go higher in the ranks for mitigating circumstances for not having one, in which case you'd have to present to them in a letter, is if you crashed the car on the way to MoT on day of expiry or died on the way to or similar lines to the story presented earlier. I'm sure you get the drift.
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I have just (yesterday) removed the registration from an unMOT'd car. It was 2 months out , and I'm not going to return it to the road (ill health). It is/was still taxed. No probs- other than it being transferred between Licensing Offices, and they losing the cheque!
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