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Feb 28, 2017 23:05:31 GMT
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Hmmm, well, my own understanding of white spirit is turpentine substitute which is definitely mineral based and thus bad for the EPDM rubber parts. So I guess we are back to whatever they mean by white spirit........ Wikipedia agrees with me en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_spiritAs I said before, I suspect that they mean meths (often coloured purple ironically enough), which is ok with EPDM. Cheap vodka would probably be fine too (though perhaps not Manila vodka?!). To avoid the issue, just clean with hot soapy water, rinse with hot water and flush through with brake fluid before assembly to chase away any lurking water. Nick |
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend)
1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing)
1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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berendd
Europe
why do I need 3 keys for one car?
Posts: 1,449
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From what I have gathered it all started with turpentine oil, which is a natural paint thinner based on tree juices able to solve resins to make varnish and paints years and years ago. Then oil was found and oil products started to replace the natural alternatives. Turpentine (so not tupentine oil) was a cheaper alternative able to solve more resins and other oils. For some purposes however it solves too many other products, it is based on a C7-C12 nafta mixture. Therefore White Spirit came onto the market as a better copy of the natural turpentine oil, less aggressive as turpentine. White Spirit originally was a brand name of turpentine, and the product is officially named solvent-nafta (also branded: Varsol, Exxcol, Hydrosol, Shellsol, Solvesso which gives you more info on the contents : www.shell.com/business-customers/chemicals/our-products/solvents-hydrocarbon/aromatic-solvents.html). White spirit is based on a C9-C10 nafta mixture. All of the above are referred to as white spirit / turpentine etc, but are three different solvents with slightly different characteristics. other solvents are -refined petrol (as used in lighters) which is a C5-C15 blend with saturated molecules as heptane and octane which means they are less likely to react than nafta blends. -Thinner usually about 50% toluene and other solvents all of these however are mineral oil based products which are not recommended for brake systems, but why not use brake cleaner? brake cleaner is usually a mix of heptane and acetone (sometimes Tetrachloroethylene), any leftover drops will evaporate before you put it back together. better not to use on gaskets and seals to be sure but usually short exposure won't hurt, expecially EPDM is quite resistant. The Acetone will take any moisture left behind. |
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A screen shot from page 23 (highlights are mine) of a Bosch brake Service Manual, which may be found here: oemys-performance.com/media/pin%20slide%20manual.pdf Photo upload working now..., Point being, any pro brake sites I visited call for using denatured alcohol, the Bosch one also includes isopropyl. |
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I'd agree with the above, hot soapy water and careful drying should be more than enough. No risk of damaging anything this way.
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Hmm, a can of white spirited worms, it seems!
Thanks very much for all the responses.
I'm hoping it'll be fairly clean anyway, the fluid I've drained off both at the cylinders and the reservoir doesn't look particularly nasty and as I say, all the o-rings will be replaced during the upgrade.
Given there's no certainty as to the actual contents of the 'paint thinner' and whilst we do have some isopropyl and ethanol, they are widely sold as antiseptics but they contain moisturiser as well. And although local vodka is, IIRC, about a quid a litre, I think I'll go the soapy water route first!
I've got plenty of time to dry it out while waiting for the bloody hoses!
Thanks again.
And on the hose front, I had a response from PHLpost!
It says:-
"Dear Sir,
This is to acknowledge receipt of your email.
Item subject for customs examination as of Feb 24, 2017."
Which tells me only marginally more than a blank screen!
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IT'S OFF! At 10 o'clock, I'd just wandered down to the Pit of Hell just in time to see my neighbour pulling out of his space. Without further ado, I shot upstairs, donned overalls and went on the attack. First job, now I could open the drivers door properly, were two trim panels above the pedals which gave up without a fight. Then I could reach up and disconnect the modulator plunger from the pedal. Complete doddle. Then it was into the engine bay to remove them girt bolts holding the entire contraption to the vehicle. Done in no time! Time to remove then. Hang on, what's this? Three invisible hard lines sneaking into the back which can only be seen and "accessed" when the mod is pulled forward. Okay. Spanner on the first one. Oh, hand's in the way of the light. Nowt I can do about that. Get it turning, spin spanner, get around 5 degrees of movement, spin spanner, another five and so on. Good job there's only three, eh? Anyway, just shy of an hour of swearing and spannering in the dark, they were off. Then time to thread the thing through all the assorted brake lines, cables and other whatnot. Eventually it gave up and slid out. What a mucking fonster!      Like a bloody iceberg, only 1/3 is visible when it's in the motor. Let the strip down begin! God knows if I'll ever get it back in... |
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Last Edit: Mar 2, 2017 4:50:46 GMT by georgeb
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Just received this mail from Philippine Customs:
"Good day!
Above parcel was already examined and consignee is required to submit proof of payment for items contained inside the package. You may send it through this email add.
Thank you."
I'm going to ignore it for now. The idea of trying to explain that the goods are not chargeable as they are replacements for incorrect goods, on which I've already paid duty, could open up a whole new world of hurt.  I'll see if the little, "You come collect" card turns up first and go that route. |
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Last Edit: Mar 2, 2017 7:51:32 GMT by georgeb
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93fxdl
Posted a lot
Enter your message here...
Posts: 2,015
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You could always reply saying that payment (bribe) has already been made to a superior for the delivery , and any further delays could result in a petty official being relocated to a very unappealing location. Hope you get it all sorted soon
Ttfn Glenn
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Nice thought and may have merit, if necessary!  The way it works is that you get your little card to go to the CPO and collect the parcel. This also tells you to bring a proof of payment. At point of collection, the customs girl (normally) opens the parcel in front of you and then you deal with it. Duty on posted items is minimal compared to couriered ones. The hoses cost me 25p last time! With a courier, I've been charged over 100% of the shipment's value before. Anyone's guess. I've never yet been asked for proof of payment, just an I.D. card, so I'm not looking to buck a trend here! I'll wait for the card. |
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Last Edit: Mar 2, 2017 11:19:00 GMT by georgeb
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Went down to get a couple of tools out of the '38 this morning. This is the quality of my neighbours parking...   I mean, how hard can it be? They've even drawn some lines on the floor as a clue! Left him a (polite - so far) note to the effect that I am working on this vehicle and should I scratch his whilst attempting to carry a large toolbox through the narrow gap he has left, don't come crying to me! |
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So this is what all the fuss is about...  Plastic washers. They were all in one piece, but I had to break them off to dismantle the plunger. They gave up without any fight at all and were pretty brittle, which tells me there wasn't much life left in them. If one fails, it leaves you with no brakes and no warning. A fine bit of Wabco design. And with the new ones fitted...   Lovely! Getting to this stage was pretty straightforward. Drift out some pins...  Allowing you to remove the plunger that attaches to the brake pedal. then you pull all the gubbins out behind it, giving you this...  Replace washers, as above, and barring o-rings, this lot's ready to go back. Except it's not, of course. And why? THIS!  What you are looking at is the opposite end to where the stuff above came from. This plug needs to come out revealing some more gizzards, including a filter that needs cleaning and 3 or 4 more o-rings to change. Except it won't come out. At least not yet it won't. It takes an 8mm allen key, what I've got, but will it shift? No, it bleeding won't. Not a single solitary smidgen. I've tried everything but heat so far, which I loath to do and the result to date has been two bent spanners. I've found a stubby key which fits a socket and swung on that. Nothing. I could say, "Sod it!" and just put back what I've done, but I really rather do everything now I'm in here. I don't want to be taking this off again once it's back on the vehicle. Any bright ideas? |
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Heat first, I guess. But otherwise, extreme cold to the plug to make it shrink a little. Might make it crack free. If you're short on cold in a can, a CO2 fire extinguisher is a good substitute.  |
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It's quite likely got some locking/sealing compound on it. That stuff usually lets got about 120º - 150ºC. My preferred technique would be a fine blowlamp flame applied to the plug itself so has to put minimum heat into the rest of the block.
Otherwise you need a well anchored vice (not talking about a lasting love of beer here) and a good quality hex driver plus a breaker bar.
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend)
1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing)
1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Davey
Posted a lot
Resident Tyre Nerd.
Posts: 2,347
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My addition to the above would be to tap the back of the tool you are using, some shock through the threads may loosen it up a bit quicker, also seems to work with alan heads into alloy, with a socket in the hole give it a quick sharp tap and it gets things moving.
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K11 Micra x3 - Mk3 astra - Seat Marbella - Mk6 Escort estate - B5 Passat - Alfa 156 estate - E36 compact
Mk2 MR2 T-bar - E46 328i - Skoda Superb - Fiat seicento - 6n2 Polo - 6n polo 1.6 - Mk1 GS300
EU8 civic type S - MG ZT cdti - R56 MINI Cooper S - Audi A3 8p - Jaguar XF (X250) - FN2 Civic Type R - Mk2 2.0i Ford Focus - Mercedes W212 E250
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It's quite likely got some locking/sealing compound on it. That stuff usually lets got about 120º - 150ºC. My preferred technique would be a fine blowlamp flame applied to the plug itself so has to put minimum heat into the rest of the block. Otherwise you need a well anchored vice (not talking about a lasting love of beer here) and a good quality hex driver plus a breaker bar. Nick Exactly this. It will have loctite on it - a bit of heat and it should undo easily. |
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Heat first, I guess. But otherwise, extreme cold to the plug to make it shrink a little. Might make it crack free. If you're short on cold in a can, a CO2 fire extinguisher is a good substitute. They only give us dry powder. Makes a bloody mess too! It's quite likely got some locking/sealing compound on it. That stuff usually lets got about 120º - 150ºC. My preferred technique would be a fine blowlamp flame applied to the plug itself so has to put minimum heat into the rest of the block. Otherwise you need a well anchored vice (not talking about a lasting love of beer here) and a good quality hex driver plus a breaker bar. Nick Damn, it's the only real well anchored vice I have. Actually, I've just bolted the vice to what would have been the maid's bed. She won't mind, we haven't got one! I've made it easily removable so don't tell Madam. My addition to the above would be to tap the back of the tool you are using, some shock through the threads may loosen it up a bit quicker, also seems to work with alan heads into alloy, with a socket in the hole give it a quick sharp tap and it gets things moving. I'll throw this into the mix as well. Exactly this. It will have loctite on it - a bit of heat and it should undo easily. As ever, thanks guys. I've got a gas soldering iron with a torch attachment, and if you all reckon I only need to heat the plug, I'll do that in the morning. Tap and heat boy, tap and heat. Oh, and find a maid that likes a good vice. I was just a bit wary as these things are alloy, unobtainable new and not too easy second hand, especially here. So I'm probably being a bit too delicate about it! Will report back. |
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Now, where were we? Oh, just before we begin...  See? He can do it if he tries! Anyway, in yesterdays exciting instalment, we were here...  but thanks to good advice on this very forum, I got a baby hot spanner on the job...  This really is a cracking bit of kit. And very soon we were here...  This is the recalcitrant plug, a bit yucky...  It actually took four or five heat cycles before it finally gave in, but we got there. Thanks again gentlemen! This meant we could drift this out through the resulting 'ole...  Love it when the bit I've got matches the photograph! Anyone else stupid enough to want to do this mod, a 1/4 drive extension bar makes an ideal drift for this, fits perfectly. This little filter was a little dickey to remove. Very old thin plastic and a complete interference fit...  But gently, gently does it, and off it comes. So with everything off, stripped and cleaned (it was actually pretty good internally - mainly bits of glazed brake fluid) it was time to reassemble. Seven new o-rings...  Trouble is, I only had six places to stick 'em. That little one looked homeless. Nope, found it!   This is just a blanking plug that sits in the bottom- seems to have no other function. Presumably they need machining lessons from @johnnybravo Anyway, 7 rings for 7 collars. Sounds like it should be a Broadway musical. So, assembly is the reversal of erm, disassembly, and in no time, it was all back together. TA DAA  Happy with that. The little filter was pretty clogged (does its job then) and the o-rings were looking past their best. More to the point, I've no plastic washers to collapse, thus avoiding a headlong plunge into the sparkling waters of Manila Bay. I'll refit in the morning and put the reservoir on last. Should make the job a "little" easier. Now, where are those bloody brake hoses? |
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Last Edit: Mar 4, 2017 5:23:53 GMT by georgeb
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So George,
Do you threaten Mr Straighty-Stripey Parkey in English or Tagalog?
PS. Insomnia still sucks.
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Two things:- 1) If I had used my rapidly exhaustible Tagalog, it would have read, "F*ck you, you son of a female dog, you have lovely boobies" which may or may not have got the message about his parking across. I just couldn't take that chance. 2) Writing slowly and loudly, in English, always gets a result. I had a lie-in 'til 3.30 this morning! |
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Last Edit: Mar 4, 2017 6:22:39 GMT by georgeb
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Good work! I like your baby hot spanner...... may have to invest. Bit the bullet and bought a Mapp gas torch last year - fine weapon but not especially subtle!
Did you use some sort of threadlock / sealant on the plug when you put it back? Would be bad if it leaked.......
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend)
1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing)
1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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