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Jun 16, 2014 10:57:54 GMT
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I wrote that guide for removing the engine. I run my own forum now. www.saabsforum.com - you should sign up and ask questions there. It is mostly 900 guys on there and some very knowledgeable ones who have rebuilt 900s before. You don't have to take out the pin if you can't. You can loosen the 13mm nut which holds the collar onto the shaft. Put the car in 4th gear (or 2nd if it is better) loosen the 13mm nut and then push the gear lever forward up to 1st or 3rd gear and if the collar is lose enough the shifter linkage will disconnect from the gearbox. The lose hose in the last picture does not connect to that nipple in the picture. That nipple is for bleeding air out of the coolant system and never has anything connected to it. I'm worried that you're trying to do too many jobs at the same time. I know from experience that disassembling a car in so many ways will eventually lead to you sitting there with a pile of broken parts and a rusty old shell. The bumper can be removed by taking out just two long bolts with allen heads. You access them from under the front bumper. If you look up from below there is a hole either side of the car where you put the allen-key-socket on an extension. Once removed the front bumper comes off very easily, just pull straight away from the car. Disconnect the headlamp wiper hoses and the electrical connectors for the headlamp wiper motors and that's it. When I saw the frayed wires in the fuse box I knew that would be the alarm system as Saab wiring is actually very good and looks nothing like what was shown in the picture. The 'thing' you are trying to remove from the inner wing on the passenger side of the car is the ignition module. That is responsible for amplifying and signalling to the ignition coil for timing the spark. The ignition coil is the other 'thing' mounted on top of the radiator connected to the distributor. It's not the starter motor. It's the ignition coil. The first part you're not sure about is the idle control valve. It is connected to the ECU and used to maintain a steady idle speed by opening or closing a plate inside the valve to allow more or less air to bypass the throttle plate. People often shorten the description to AIC - stands for Automatic Idle Control. The second part you're not sure about is the throttle position sensor. It's connected to the shaft the throttle plate is mounted to. When you press the accelerator it turns that shaft running through the throttle body which opens the throttle plate to let more air into the engine. The other end of the shaft pokes out the other side and goes into the back of the throttle position sensor to tell the ECU how far open the throttle is. It's what is known as a 'load sensor' - the other load sensor on this engine is the air mass meter which you've already removed. Fuel injection timing is calculated using input from the air mass meter, throttle position sensor and RPM signal which is taken from the ignition amplifier in the passenger side inner wing. The short description for the throttle position sensor is 'TPS' - I don't think further explanation there is necessary. You don't have to take off the oil cooler (at the front of the car under the bumper) to remove the engine. You can remove either the three bolts which hold the oil filter housing to the side of the cylinder block or you can remove the two hoses which are screwed into the oil filter housing. You can do that after the engine has been raised about a foot out of the engine bay. It gives you more room to access the oil filter housing if you take it off after the engine is on the way out. Easiest place to disconnect the exhaust is from the three bolts where the exhaust downpipe joins the elbow. Leave the elbow attached to the turbo. The battery tray is bolted to the floor on turbo models. Non-turbo models don't have a battery tray. The battery sits directly on the engine bay floor. So you can unbolt the battery tray and remove it for de-rusting. The engine is lifted by two lifting eyes. One of the lifting eyes is supposed to be attached to the cylinder head next to the automatic idle control valve. Your one is missing which means the car probably had the head gasket replaced and whoever did that job didn't put the lifting eye back on afterwards. The other lifting eye is attached to the water pump at the back of the engine. So to remove your engine you are going to have to improvise at the front end. You could remove the starter motor and put a piece of rope through the top bolt hole the starter motor bolt goes through. Don't bother buying the Haynes manual for the Saab 900. The Bentley manual is far more comprehensive and accurate. Haynes make it up as they go along, no more use than chocolate teapot. The Bentley manual is made up of extracts from the original Saab workshop manuals so you can't get anything better other than the workshop manuals themselves. I don't see why you want to throw away the radiator fan? You should be aiming not to break anything at all as you are disassembling the car. Breakages cost money and as the car was a fully working vehicle when you began it shouldn't technically speaking, require any new parts at all. It is inevitable something will break as you dismantle but just be as careful as possible. In case you weren't aware... they ain't making any new parts or Saabs... The rear suspension looks to be in good shape, I'd probably be aiming to leave that alone and just fix the rust spots.
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Last Edit: Jun 16, 2014 10:59:01 GMT by ejenner
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Jun 16, 2014 11:14:47 GMT
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Here's some inspiration for you: It's the engine bay on my convertible 900 turbo. Rebuilt engine and gearbox with Trionic 5.5 engine management transplanted from a Saab 9000. The t5.5 removes the requirement for both the ignition coil and the distributor. The engine bay is a lot tidier without those old technology parts!
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Jun 16, 2014 11:39:38 GMT
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I don't think new doors are required either. Your doors look good. The rust you have on those doors is nothing compared to what you see on some 900s. My 99 turbo had rust 6 inches up on inside and outside from the bottom of the door. So yours, with a couple of small rust spots, they are pretty good really. Here's some more inspiration. This is my long term project. It's been off the road 10 years... hence my warning to you not to go too far! Rear end is complete. The engine and gearbox from this car has now been fitted to my convertible... pictured above. So I going to have to rebuild another engine and gearbox for this car.
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Jun 16, 2014 11:41:20 GMT
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Underside of body has been undersealed twice. That's on top of the original Saab coating so it effectively has 3 coats of underseal on it!
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Mark
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,097
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Jun 16, 2014 12:28:11 GMT
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Great posts ejenner!
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mhuk
Part of things
Posts: 124
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Jun 16, 2014 14:26:25 GMT
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'I'm worried that you're trying to do too many jobs at the same time. I know from experience that disassembling a car in so many ways will eventually lead to you sitting there with a pile of broken parts and a rusty old shell'
I thought the same thing. Slow down OP. :-)
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Spitfire with a mx5 turbo engine
Merc W210 on veg oil running water injection.
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Jun 16, 2014 15:08:58 GMT
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I wrote that guide for removing the engine. I run my own forum now. www.saabsforum.com - you should sign up and ask questions there. It is mostly 900 guys on there and some very knowledgeable ones who have rebuilt 900s before. You don't have to take out the pin if you can't. You can loosen the 13mm nut which holds the collar onto the shaft. Put the car in 4th gear (or 2nd if it is better) loosen the 13mm nut and then push the gear lever forward up to 1st or 3rd gear and if the collar is lose enough the shifter linkage will disconnect from the gearbox. The lose hose in the last picture does not connect to that nipple in the picture. That nipple is for bleeding air out of the coolant system and never has anything connected to it. I'm worried that you're trying to do too many jobs at the same time. I know from experience that disassembling a car in so many ways will eventually lead to you sitting there with a pile of broken parts and a rusty old shell. The bumper can be removed by taking out just two long bolts with allen heads. You access them from under the front bumper. If you look up from below there is a hole either side of the car where you put the allen-key-socket on an extension. Once removed the front bumper comes off very easily, just pull straight away from the car. Disconnect the headlamp wiper hoses and the electrical connectors for the headlamp wiper motors and that's it. When I saw the frayed wires in the fuse box I knew that would be the alarm system as Saab wiring is actually very good and looks nothing like what was shown in the picture. The 'thing' you are trying to remove from the inner wing on the passenger side of the car is the ignition module. That is responsible for amplifying and signalling to the ignition coil for timing the spark. The ignition coil is the other 'thing' mounted on top of the radiator connected to the distributor. It's not the starter motor. It's the ignition coil. The first part you're not sure about is the idle control valve. It is connected to the ECU and used to maintain a steady idle speed by opening or closing a plate inside the valve to allow more or less air to bypass the throttle plate. People often shorten the description to AIC - stands for Automatic Idle Control. The second part you're not sure about is the throttle position sensor. It's connected to the shaft the throttle plate is mounted to. When you press the accelerator it turns that shaft running through the throttle body which opens the throttle plate to let more air into the engine. The other end of the shaft pokes out the other side and goes into the back of the throttle position sensor to tell the ECU how far open the throttle is. It's what is known as a 'load sensor' - the other load sensor on this engine is the air mass meter which you've already removed. Fuel injection timing is calculated using input from the air mass meter, throttle position sensor and RPM signal which is taken from the ignition amplifier in the passenger side inner wing. The short description for the throttle position sensor is 'TPS' - I don't think further explanation there is necessary. You don't have to take off the oil cooler (at the front of the car under the bumper) to remove the engine. You can remove either the three bolts which hold the oil filter housing to the side of the cylinder block or you can remove the two hoses which are screwed into the oil filter housing. You can do that after the engine has been raised about a foot out of the engine bay. It gives you more room to access the oil filter housing if you take it off after the engine is on the way out. Easiest place to disconnect the exhaust is from the three bolts where the exhaust downpipe joins the elbow. Leave the elbow attached to the turbo. The battery tray is bolted to the floor on turbo models. Non-turbo models don't have a battery tray. The battery sits directly on the engine bay floor. So you can unbolt the battery tray and remove it for de-rusting. The engine is lifted by two lifting eyes. One of the lifting eyes is supposed to be attached to the cylinder head next to the automatic idle control valve. Your one is missing which means the car probably had the head gasket replaced and whoever did that job didn't put the lifting eye back on afterwards. The other lifting eye is attached to the water pump at the back of the engine. So to remove your engine you are going to have to improvise at the front end. You could remove the starter motor and put a piece of rope through the top bolt hole the starter motor bolt goes through. Don't bother buying the Haynes manual for the Saab 900. The Bentley manual is far more comprehensive and accurate. Haynes make it up as they go along, no more use than chocolate teapot. The Bentley manual is made up of extracts from the original Saab workshop manuals so you can't get anything better other than the workshop manuals themselves. I don't see why you want to throw away the radiator fan? You should be aiming not to break anything at all as you are disassembling the car. Breakages cost money and as the car was a fully working vehicle when you began it shouldn't technically speaking, require any new parts at all. It is inevitable something will break as you dismantle but just be as careful as possible. In case you weren't aware... they ain't making any new parts or Saabs... The rear suspension looks to be in good shape, I'd probably be aiming to leave that alone and just fix the rust spots. Hi there, thanks for writing that guide first of all it's been a massive help, To be entirely honest I've never done this kind of thing before, so I am a bit all over the place, but I'm 3/4's of the way through the engine so I might as well keep going on with that, I found that the thing above the radiator was the coil after I posted it Also thanks for pointing out the other two "things" i had to disconnect I have all of summer to work on this, and I'm not doing much else, plus I want to get this back to how it was so I'm focusing on it as much as i can, the last thing i want is a shell and a heap of parts, so i'm doing my best to not make that happen. As for the fan, it didn't move very freely so i thought the motor might be busted or something Got the battery tray out there a while back and I'll go after the cooler when the engine is slightly raised, and I've already disconnected the exhaust at the three nuts, someone mentioned a seal and it was hard to get so i left the elbow alone When the time comes to remove it I'll be getting a hand off a friend who takes engines out just for fun, so we'l figure something out when the time comes. Again when i have money I'll get a bentley manual, I'm curious as to whats inside it, they haynes i was going to use for the pictures, but so far I've managed without. As for not making new parts, I didn't know, so I'll be as careful as i can, if something breaks well that's my tough luck, and I'll just have to fork out for another part i suppose, if it's there that is. There's a guy from around my area who has 3 900's who said I can use what i need off them so hopefully i won't need to use much. As for the doors, that's good news to me Again, I've never really dealt with rust so I'm getting advice left right and centre, some people are saying the doors are awful others aren't so i'll just go with yourself, and repair them That t5.5 looks to be pretty fun to do, wouldn't have a clue how to even go about it, so i think I'll stick with my old skool parts for now Also I won't be going as in depth as you have with your long term project, to sum up what I intend on doing with mine is Remove the engine Derust/protect engine bay Repair front end rust/rot Remove interior carpet and check for rust Deal with wet floor Repair any electrical issues Underseal body Respray/alloy refurb New tyres New silicone piping/vacuum lines Belt changes A good service
Do something with the exhaust I know the gearbox isn't great on them so while the engine is out I was going to take it off and get it looked at buy a gearbox rebuilding crowd who do inspections for free That's as tech as I'm going to get with it, I was going to go the whole hog and strip it back to the bare shell, but I'd be insane to do that with the experience i have. Thanks also for the pictures, i do get a bit stoked from seeing what can be done with these cars, so it'l keep me going for the next while Seeing as yourself and another poster have told me to slow down, do you mean slow down as in not burn out and get bored of it or slow down as I'm doing too many things at once, If its the latter I'll carry on with the engine and then follow the list i just stuck up there, again I've never removed an engine so I'm a bit wobbly shall we say, a guy on another forum gave me stick for even attempting it, but sure we have to start somewhere I suppose
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Jun 16, 2014 20:01:20 GMT
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Small update today Removed the right brake disc/ caliper, the disc was fairly lipped so again, new ones are due Got the loom out too, everything labelled accordingly After this i loosened the jubilee clips on the cv boots, one however had been cable tied, so that was cut off Here's what's behind the boot the cv cup After this i called it a day, you're supposed to knock out the lower nuts on the balljoints so I'll get to that next time, as for yanking the hub out, well that's another story i'm sure we'l find out! Holidays soon so I'll be taking it handy over the next few days
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Jun 17, 2014 22:15:15 GMT
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Carrying on from today, I managed to get the right hand balljoint out, with a bit of persuasion and some help from mr hammer Lower balljoint nuts removed, to do this, get the nut to the edge of the screw, hit it with a hammer so the screw comes out, remove the nut and use a punch to get the nut out Then pull the hub out, this might take a bit of effort as it did with mine, but one the ball joint is near out, hit it with a hammer and out it comes, then pull it out a bit more The joint out Then i repositioned the hub to be straight and pulled outwards, again referring to the guide, the cv boot/cv cup are should start moving and it has Before After As you can see the boot has moved a good bit so after this I'm stumped, does it come out by itself or does it come out during removal? Also gona attack the left side tomorrow then no more for a week, yay holidays! Wiith a bit of patience I'll get there
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Jun 18, 2014 19:30:36 GMT
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So again a little update, and the last for the next while, on hollerdays next week Got the last connector out from the loom, so the loom is completely out of the way Rustproofed the battery tray, and done a little refurb on the gearknob piece, the acrylic bit the gear numbers on it was a bit scuffed, seems to have been black at some stage, does anyone know where I can get a glass or acrylic bit made like this? Then you have the housing for it which was a bit rusty on the edges Out with the dremel and sanded it all off, then i figured I'd use my old astra rattle can, it's a black with some "glitter" though it, so sprayed up the housing, looks black but shines well in the sun The next problem was that the inside of the gear knob had separated from the handle, so out with sump glue and sealed it all back together :pac: The next and last thing I've to disconnect before the engine gets lifted, is this That bracket is not budging from the pipe its attached to, the pipe is attached to the turbo and lower rad hose so I'm guessing it's safe to take off? Anyways, two or three steps away from my first ever engine removal, never thought I'd see this happen After this if i have the money, I'm going to get a bently manual, which is essentially the workshop manuals from saab themselves So in no order Bently manual Bilit hamber rust proofing (proper stuff) Le mans blue spray paint Cutting discs for the angle grinder New metal plates for the rotted parts A welder
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Theres a proper inspiration OG900 Saab that red one. Nice car that.
I´ll scour my archives, and IF I find some of my manuals (that are already in A4 separate paper), I´ll scan those and I can send them to you by email. Theres electrickery section, transmission, engine etc. If I remember correctly.
After midsummers eve here, I will look for these docs for ya.
Cheers and keep at it mate.
-Hessu-
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Ford Capri Mk3 -79 2.9EFI turbo, summer ride Ford Sierra 4x4 STW aka "GABy", winter ride Kawasaki ZX14 Project 2.9 EFI engine for the Sierra 4x4.
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Jun 19, 2014 15:38:07 GMT
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Here you go, this is a rusted door - I cut the bottom off and welded on a new bottom. It is from a 99 which hasn't been on the road since 1992 and must have been in pretty bad shape when it came off the road back then. I wouldn't touch the gearbox if it is working and changing gear properly. Many people don't know what they're doing when it comes to the Saab 900 transmission. It's a pretty unique design and there are lots of subtle tweaks and tucks you must know about before 'having a go' - if you were to send it for a free inspection I guarantee to you they'd find all sorts of amazing things wrong with it and you'd be suddenly there facing a bill for £500 and they'd send you back a piece of junk. A perfect example of this was when I took the gearbox out of my red one (pictures above) and sent it to someone who allegedly knew what they were doing with Saab 900 gearboxes. He rebuilt it for me at a cost of around £250.00 back in around 2005. That's actually not enough for a proper rebuild but hopefully he did a reasonable job of setting the pinion bearings inside - fingers crossed on that one! Just recently I had a change of heart and decided I would fit this gearbox to my convertible instead of the Carlsson. I put it into the engine bay and hooked up the engine mounts. Turned my attention to the gearbox shifter linkage and once connected I found the box would only shift into 3rd or 4th and could not select any other gears. Turns out a big mistake was made assembling the box and he obviously didn't check it afterwards. So luckily I'd not got very far fitting the engine and was still able to remove it to fix the gearbox problem without too much trouble. I'm at the stage now where I've rebuilt loads and loads of gearboxes for 900s so well experienced and I've sold a few to satisfied customers. I would add to that old guide on Saabcentral but you can't edit very old postings on that forum. When taking out the ball joints it can be easier if you load and unload the lower suspension arm using the jack. There is a sweet spot where the bolts will almost slide out without any hammering. The top ball joint is usually tighter and often requires a bit of a wiggle up and down to slide it out of the upper control arm. The blue ground lead is stuck behind the solid water pipe going into the bottom of the turbo. You can open the nut on the bottom of the turbo using a big adjustable spanner (because it has wide jaws so is less likely to round-off the nut) or alternatively just disconnect the earth lead from the other end. It goes to the battery and to the earth point on the cross-member running along the front of the engine bay. That earthing point will often require a cleanup anyway as they can get pretty corroded. So yeah, don't let anyone touch the gearbox if it's working ok. It would be great to remove the covers, driveshafts and reseal them but there are things you have to know to get that done right. Once done though, it's nice to clean the oil off the gearbox casing. And don't forget to join www.saabsforum.com and start a project thread over there.
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Last Edit: Jun 19, 2014 15:40:31 GMT by ejenner
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Jun 19, 2014 17:34:01 GMT
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Ejenner, I tried to sign up to the site and it wont let me, I joined a while ago, and never got a confirmation email, so i can't post As for the gearbox, it remains on the car, however if it does decide to call it a day, would you mind if i sent it to yourself? I got the ball joints out, but I'll know for next time, as for the driveshafts coming out, I take they slide out by themselves or do i need to yank them out too?, they've come out a bit, to the point where i can feel what I'm guessing are three bearings, after that, nothing, The earth area on the crossmember is getting cleaned when I'm back from holidays. The rubber pipe from the coolant won't budge from the metal pipe, so i'm guessing its ok to take it from the turbo then, other than that the engines ready to come out! Seriously appreciate all the help/pics though!
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Jun 19, 2014 19:12:58 GMT
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Theres a proper inspiration OG900 Saab that red one. Nice car that. I´ll scour my archives, and IF I find some of my manuals (that are already in A4 separate paper), I´ll scan those and I can send them to you by email. Theres electrickery section, transmission, engine etc. If I remember correctly. After midsummers eve here, I will look for these docs for ya. Cheers and keep at it mate. -Hessu- If you could that would be great Thanks for the encouragement too!
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Jun 19, 2014 19:29:42 GMT
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Underside of body has been undersealed twice. That's on top of the original Saab coating so it effectively has 3 coats of underseal on it! What great work. What did you use to underseal your car with? Thanks
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toastedpickles, I've activated your account. I'd say the problem is the activation email went into your spam folder. The underseal is the professional stuff. You can use MIPA or 3M Schtuz Comes in cans like this and you apply it using a special (cheap though) spray gun attached to a compressor. I did one coat of stonechip and then another coat of the more rubberised flexible tacky variety over the top.
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Jun 20, 2014 12:03:01 GMT
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Oh, and yes, of course, if you get this car back together, if you decide to keep it and you decide you want a good quality gearbox rebuild you would be welcome to send me your gearbox. I even sent one to Singapore once.
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Jun 20, 2014 12:22:31 GMT
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Oh lovely thanks I'll start up so! I may grab a hold of a lift so, when i get a hold of the car my mechanic might lend me his one, as you can probably guess I do all the work in my driveway, I've no workshop or fancy tools like compressors or lifts so if i was doing an underseal job, it'd be with spray cans and lying under the car with a mask on, but I'll try my luck with getting a hold of a lift
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Jun 20, 2014 13:04:19 GMT
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TBH compressor would be the first tool to get for this job. Can be done on axle stands but it is necessary to repair your rust, remove the suspension components, fuel tank, ect and mask and cover the whole top half of the body and engine bay as settling overspray is difficult to remove once it has settled and dried. A compressor which will do that job is cheaper than you may think. It can also be used with a blow-gun for dusting/cleaning, small spray jobs, it will run an air-wrench for a short blast if you have any stuck nuts to remove and these sorts of compressors are also great for keeping your tyre pressures up to scratch - much easier / quicker than driving to the petrol station or asking your mechanic to do it. In fact, the price of these sorts of cheap compressors + an under-body coating gun + a few tubes of professional chassis coating really wouldn't add up to a vast amount more than 20 aerosols of carp from Halfords. www.aldi.ie/en/specialbuys/hurry-while-stocks-last/hurry-while-stocks-last/ps/p/25hp-air-compressor/
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Jun 20, 2014 14:23:59 GMT
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Good point made, well I'm intending on clearing out a shed we have here, space is next to 0 at the minute so at least i'll have somewhere to put all that kinda thing, I've had fuel issues on my 9-5, and I'm a bit wary of that general area to be honest, so when the time comes I'm guessing the tank itself is relatively handy to remove, when i come back I'm planning on getting the front welded up and repaired, and then sealing that up with something along the likes of bilt hamber, or check out stuff on rust.co.uk, Looks like I've a bit of work cut out for me down the line!
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