Cafe Racers and a 'British' style for cars...

[HoTWire]

So some people may have noticed a vague under current of dissatisfaction from me with how homologous the international car scene has become. There was a dream once upon a time that people would use things like this here forum to find other styles and inspirations from around the world and apply it locally, what seemed to happen is people bought the style in wholesale, cars and all, which means our shows look like their shows and their shows in turn start to look like our shows. I look at pictures and can't tell if a Honda Civic was built in New Zealand, Tokyo, The Midwest USA or Sweden somewhere, and it makes me a little sad... I had visions of people seeing 510s and thinking "Our Cortinas are basically the same shape, lets build them in that kinda style", what happened is people went out and bought 510s, or lusted after buying 510s and carried on building Cortinas in the way they always have.

Anyway, it got me thinking, what would someone in Japan or New Zealand be able to take away as a British style, lowered a bit on Minilites, maybe. Which is a bit dull to my eyes. Maybe the wacky jack ups from the 70s or the pastel good times from the 90s? This has nagged at the back of my brain for a little while, and there is mileage in both of those things, but I wanted something better. It came from a different place to our lovely (and innovative) car scene, and in fact some people have already been exploring it in relation to cars. Cafe Racers!

Here is the wikipedia definition : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Café_racer "The café racer is a light and lightly powered motorcycle that has been modified for speed and handling rather than comfort."

Going through images looking for inspiration I found this blog : www.pipeburn.com that has a cafe racer category www.pipeburn.com/home/category/cafe-racer

Now imagine if you will taking the style an applying it to cars



Applied to a Triumph GT6



Applied to an MGB or a BMW 2002



Applied to a Mini

Or even this



Applied to a Herald


Oh ... wait ...







Some cars are already there ... I'm keen to see some more examples if anyone can think of any?

I've got this one up my sleeve




... once I've got my Classic Le Mans photos online I've got another to add as well


What do you reckon? A real thing? Or am I talking out the side of my neck?

[DarrenW]

I've kind of had similar thoughts along similar lines but in slightly different directions, spurred on by some entertaining drives recently.

Americans have lots of straight roads. The result? Drag racing and a whole style of car that is influenced by it. Hot rods, pro-touring etc.

Germans have lots of fast smooth autobahns. The result? Big, low, fast uber saloons rolling on big wheels. VIP-ish. Golfs bouncing and scraping along, fat and low.

What do we have? Lots of fast and twisty back roads, especially in Wales and Scotland, with good sightlines and lots of challenges. Why aren't we building "our" equivalent of "German Look" on Beetles? Fast-road focused Rover P5s with loads of grunt, Heralds with attitude... Not track day cars, not even necessarily street-racers, but something stiff enough to handle well, with enough compliance and ride height to handle the bumps and potholes, power enough to be point-and-squirt entertaining between the corners, lots of torque but not heavy. Enough "luxuries" to make it daily drivable - no fixed bucket seats or roll cages, not stripped out (maybe even a bit of Wilton & Walnut, that's what the British did best) but thoroughly civilised yet able to handle any situation.

Gentleman racer?

If it's relatively common to see a late 1303 Beetle with lots of well thought through modern Porsche bits engineered into it, why are there no Aston Martin Morris Minors?

Half-baked and not really thought through. But does any of that make sense? A sort of motorised Brian Blessed

[Deleted]

First thing that came to mind was Mr Speedy' vitesse.

[mylittletony]

I love this idea (and also pipeburn, I visit daily)

I had a mk1 fiesta with lairy crossflow and ghia spec interior which sort of fits Darren's idea - it was great but I have no pics...

I love the cream herald with supercharged mx5 engine on green steels (MrSpeedy's??)- that definitely fits the bill.

While the super-low trend is aesthetically pleasing, it doesn't lend itself to driving on British roads. Road-rally spec, street sleepers that look subtle but a bit tough - definitely an untapped goldmine.

[Deleted]

This is why l don't usually bother with no rym no reason thread because as good as the cars are they are of the same theme low, banded,rolled arches, camber...... what about a mk2 zodiac with a aqua plane head and 6 branch and tripple SU's with 5 speed gearbox and independant BMW rear end good set of steelies but no faux rust!

[baggabones]

Completely agree with all that has been said above....it's the same in a lot of different avenues of British life. We kinda seem to have lost our innovation and would rather soak up influences from other countries at the moment , long live the few innovators we still have and let's hope for new generation of them to come out of the woodwork.....

Loving the vitesses and the porker

[DarrenW]

Jul 8, 2014 13:59:25 GMT @moore said:

This is why l don't usually bother with no rym no reason thread because as good as the cars are they are of the same theme low, banded,rolled arches, camber...... what about a mk2 zodiac with a aqua plane head and 6 branch and tripple SU's with 5 speed gearbox and independant BMW rear end good set of steelies but no faux rust!

Excellent suggestion.

I'm just mulling over it all now with my afternoon brew. I think Overfinch did it right with the early Range Rover conversions. Take a thoroughly British car, capable of handling itself in almost any situation, fitting in anywhere from a farm track to Buckingham Palace, and give it an almighty iron fist in that velvet glove. Thoroughly civilised, devastatingly effective.

Right now I want a Corsair, mile-deep glossy anthracite paint and superstraight bodywork, minimal chrome, very light classy tint to the glass, not too low... Lots of leather and luxury inside... Bigger (but not too big) wheels in grey/dark silver... And some kind of big creamy straight six (BMW? Lexus?) up front with a 6-speed box. All the suspension set up properly. Something you can park in a posh part of town and look classy and subtle, yet equally can terrorise modern hot hatches on fast A and B roads without making any kind of loud song and dance about it.

[DarrenW]

BMW in the 70s/80s were "just" a German Triumph really - fast, slightly aggressive, RWD upmarket saloons. I'll have a super subtle, well engineered BRG Dolomite with E36 M3 power and suspension please

I'm only a huge lottery win away* from running some kind of business that churns these things out, like those massively expensive Eagle Jaguars and whoever reworks/modernises DB5s and things.

(*Best way to turn a large fortune into a small one, and all that!)

[Del]

Talking of Corsairs, I'd say slammage is doing a very decent job of this kind of thing, although in a completely different way to how Darren is thinking!

[goldnrust]

Jul 8, 2014 12:56:14 GMT HoTWire said:

I had visions of people seeing 510s and thinking "Our Cortinas are basically the same shape, lets build them in that kinda style

In many ways, the cafe racer pictures you've posted are exactly that. True cafe racers are british bikes from the 50s and 60s, modified to be fast fast as possible with whatever parts the builders could get their hands on, lots of home made bits and engine swaps. The bikes you've got pictures of are a modern American take on the cafe racer. British bikes are comparatively rare and expensive in the US, so they've taken whats available and cheap, 70 japanese bikes mostly, and tried to apply the cafe racer style. Along the way it's got stylised, modern touches like matt paint have been added, influences from the American flat trackers have worked their way in and they've turned into show bikes. All sense of them being modified for speed has been lost, which is a shame. They are the motorcycle equivalent of the SOCAL VW scene.

That said…. they do look damn cool! I love all the stripped back simplicity, the absolute minimalism, 2 wheels and an engine, nothing more!

Taken from a photo blog (www.btwl.tumblr.com) that often features those American cafe racers, this Porsche (replica I presume?) follows the same stripped back simplicity, race car inspired touches while actually being all about 'the look' and is down right awesome.




At a local classic car meet the other week, a friend and I were looking at a frog eye sprite, and an early Healey 3000 and thinking how great they were in original spec as standard, with a few touches towards this look they'd be fantastic. A quick google found these period photos, which would have actually been from the time of cafe racers so the same thing I guess, take standard vehicle and make it what you can for racing. Loving the speedster look with the small windscreens. It's that same thing where it's a true classic, but every last thing that can be removed has been, it's now just 4 wheels and engine and a seat really, and it's great. Function before form, creating it's own beautiful form.

[fr€$h&m1nt¥]

I know this is a race shot rather than modified road car but...



a more road friendly one...

[slammage]

Jul 8, 2014 14:29:41 GMT Del said:

Talking of Corsairs, I'd say slammage is doing a very decent job of this kind of thing, although in a completely different way to how Darren is thinking!

Thanks for the heads up Del! I'm doing what I always wanted to do with my Corsair, - no scene club or specific theme/style, just following my old ford / hot rod roots I have in my blood and trying to do something different other than the typical banded steels or superlites pattern.. its paying of but still a long way to go mind!

But I do agree we need more variety, more people to think outside of the usual boxes and applying a bit of engineering know how or trial and error as I like to call it. Taking influences from the British scene , American scene and German for example , risks are worth taking and being different is a risk worth taking IMO.

Gav

[adam73bgt]

If I may be so rude as to 'self whore' my humble little MG here but a 'gentleman racer' style is what I have tried to go for The interior is updated with subtle modern touches and is comfortable but sporty and the suspension is lowered to the point where the handling is better but I'm not scraping around. The only thing I need to tackle to make it a bit more of a 'cafe racer' is some more speed from the engine perspective





Admittedly the wheels may be a bit 'new' for the overall look but it feels like a little road racer to me when I drive it



Edit to add: I like the idea of cafe/gentleman racer style older british cars, but I think I'd prefer to err on the side of gentleman racer for the interior as a fully stripped out interior would make it feel too much of a full on track car to me

[v8ian]

My old Cortina Might have fitted the bill,



Perhaps my old Mk1 Zodiac too,

[Del]

To me, a British car is rorty, raw and chuckable, much like a café racer is. For example, I can't imagine the classic Lotuses or the Harris Escorts having come from anywhere else.

[Curtis]

Though not a british style, continuing on the theme of applying foreign cultures to local stuff, I've tried taking the Japan Kanjo racer and applying it to my Ibiza. Still a lot of work to do but the idea is there

[optimusprime]

Jul 8, 2014 14:23:12 GMT DarrenW said:

BMW in the 70s/80s were "just" a German Triumph really - fast, slightly aggressive, RWD upmarket saloons. I'll have a super subtle, well engineered BRG Dolomite with E36 M3 power and suspension please

I'm only a huge lottery win away* from running some kind of business that churns these things out, like those massively expensive Eagle Jaguars and whoever reworks/modernises DB5s and things.

(*Best way to turn a large fortune into a small one, and all that!)

You and me both.

I'm thinking Rover Sd1 with performance four wheel drive and one of those supercharged Jag V8's up front.
Triumph 2500 saloon modestly 'upspecced' interiors, and a large smooth power up front, or maybe just shove an M5 lump in there.......
Austin Maxi/Allegro with Rover TSeries power.


One issue though that occurs, is that to fit bigger/ better/ economical/faster etcetera running gear, the choices seem to mostly 'unbritish' ....

[DarrenW]

Jul 8, 2014 18:42:43 GMT optimusprime said:

One issue though that occurs, is that to fit bigger/ better/ economical/faster etcetera running gear, the choices seem to mostly 'unbritish' ....

This is true, but the way I'm looking at it is to see the Rover V8 as an American lump anyway and nobody objects to those, so once you accept that then anything else is OK!

Did TVR ever sort the AJP engines out? They would be interesting...

[optimusprime]

Trouble with the Rover lump is it's done to often?
I like the tvr idea in something.

Tvr powered GT6 anyone?

[andyborris]

There already is a "British style".

Think Lotus Cortina MK1, Mini Cooper, McGoven Imps, lowered, usually on Minilites and Webered.

Like a lot of styles, Cafe Racers included, it comes from the need to go faster, between cafes or on the track. And there's a lot of cars in the readers ride section that have the "Brit look"

One of my favorites is yoeddynz Viva, really reminds me of the cars driving around when I was a lad in the late 60's and early 70's. Except for the Madza V6!!