1980 Austin Princess mild custom - 1951 Lanchester LD10

[vulgalour]

After all that it was time to go water leak hunting, a job I dislike at the best of times and not one I fancied doing today, needs must as it's easier to do it now with the car interior in bits. Rust stains are really useful here, they give a visual clue, that meant I could easily find the most likely route water is getting into the boot.


Quite a bit of water is getting in and sitting in the passenger side front. This one is a bit confusing, there's no obvious route I could see for it so I carried on looking.


If you look on the leading edge of the driver's door here (door card removed) you can see a rust stain running down from the door card holder rail. Water was getting in between the moisture membrane and the door card, running down the rail and into the foot well, or at least that's what the rust stains hint at.


So, when you're getting water in the front footwells it pays to check the scuttle section. Sure enough, the drains that should go down the A pillars behind the wings were completely blocked both sides. These wings are coming off anyway so I'll clean up behind them even better at a later date.


All cleaned out and tidy again.


Bit of cleaning on the interior. The seats are in REALLY good condition but filthy as anything. I had thought the parcel shelf wasn't, it look seriously badly faded. Amazingly, it was just a thick layer of dust as you can see from this half-and-half. The parcel shelf is by no means perfect underneath the dust but it's far better than I'd hoped for.


Stuck the seats back in. It might look like two single seats but you can scootch across the car side to side like it has benches, there's only just enough space between them for the seatbelt stalks thanks to the gear lever and umbrella handle handbrake being dash mounted. The seats are also phenominally comfortable.




It's been a stunning day here today so the car got really well aired out and was almost bone dry when it came time to pack up.


The paint is hilariously bad. At some point this car was metallic blue, repainted with flat green, done inside and out but prepared badly. However, the spare front door appears to have been metallic green, painted metallic blue and then painted a different metallic blue on the outside again. Sadly, the overpaint on the car is quite fragile, you can brush it off without trying too hard so I'm not sure how much of the current patina will survive, perhaps it will develop into something even more interesting?






The big job I needed to do were the gutters. Where the roof is crushed the gutters are in bad shape on the outer skin but happily not on the inner skin. They can be repaired, I'm under no illusion it's going to be difficult. I got them both a lot straighter and I can probably salvage the damaged stainless gutter trim which is badly kinked and dented in places.




I did get some of the bad passenger side dent out when I straightened the gutter. I'm going to have to remove the headlining, which is annoying as it's perfect and well fitted. If I remove the headlining I can get the hammer and dolly out and get the metal back to shape properly, it reshapes really easily so this damage isn't as bad as it seemed. The problem is that this side the gutter has started to erode the roof and the two skins have separated. Again, it's repairable but it is going to be difficult.






I found a spare set of keys in the Stuff that came with the car, the rusty one is for the blue door and works, the brass one I think is an old AA phone box key. The workbench wire wheel thing worked a treat on the rusty key and I shall keep it this way rather than getting a new one as it works perfectly well.




If anyone has a spare headlight do let me know. I suspect that's going to be a very difficult part to source as I need a RHD one.






That's your lot for today. This is a super little car that's far more solid than expected. The roof repairs are scary but not impossible, I'm considering getting some silicone sealant to plug the gaps until the car is otherwise sorted so that water doesn't get in where it's not wanted.

[Siert]

Uh, my XZX's are tubeless, and so were the car's originals (I know because I removed them myself).

Anyway, good progress, and good luck!

[vulgalour]

Then one of the two previous owners must have chosen to have tubes installed in all their tyres for some reason. I made a start scrubbing the rubber mats and what little carpet the car has and now I know where that 'old car smell' is coming from. What a horrible job!

[vulgalour]

I'd brought some bits of the Renault back for a scrub before they go back in the car once it's all water tight. Some of it cleans up really well, like the rear rubber mat. Here's a half-and-half shot, it's now fully cleaned and vinyl treated to keep it that way at least until it goes in the car.


Unfortunately the front carpet-and-mat combo was beyond even my cleaning skills. As MrDuke had told me, the pile was just coming away on the carpet when you tried to clean the black whatever-that-is off. I've unpicked the stitching between the vinyl and the carpet and stored both parts so I've got a pattern to work off for some new carpetting, I'll likely replace the centre console carpet to match as that looks similarly too far gone. While I do want to keep as much of the age and wear of the car as I can, I draw the line at festering carpets.


The rubber boot mat has fared much better and is fundamentally sound, just scruffy.


There are a few tears in the rubber which I've temporarily fixed with some black duct tape. Later I plan to repair this with some relevant rubber glue and patches, for now I just don't want the tears to get any worse while the mat is handled.


Scrubbed up really well and being rubber it was hardly any work to clean.


The driver's door card and handle are faded. I'm making no attempt to un-fade them so long as they're clean, it's all part of the car's charm. The steering column lower shroud was on the receiving end of the soapy water too, it has a split fixing collar that I'll repair before refitting it to the car.


As is traditional, the result of today's labours are shown below.


The last bit for me to sort are the rear arch and boot liners. These are incredibly fragile made of plastic that's really thin and brittle, it's quite scary to handle them because tiny pieces break off really easily. When they're in situ they're nowhere near as fragile. This is the worst of the two with a large piece missing and since I didn't want the soundproofing of the arch poking through I wanted to work out a solution to make it look tidier without worrying about it being perfect.


First I went around the back of both panels, taping up any cracks I could find to prevent further damage as much as possible. More black duct tape for this. I didn't tape over the hole just yet, instead I made the edges secure without having the tape visible from the other side.


Taking a piece slightly larger than the hole, tape it to the back with another piece of tape, sticky side facing you. This can be a bit awkward because the tape wants to stick to everything.


Then just tape over the tape-patch so there's no sticky on this side of the panel.


The camera has made this look a bit more glaring as a repair than it is in reality. The large shiny patch nearest you is the one that's now repaired. Further back are a couple of damp patches from earlier cleaning. This panel now holds its shape and is less inclined to crumble.


I won't be refitting any of this until the car is watertight, no point undoing the cleaning work. I suspect one of the rear side windows is leaking because there were some small rust dribbles on the back of one of these panels. Tomorrow I'm going to investigate the boxes of bits and get the gutters taped up, I might even get chance to get some engine work done. I may also do none of this as we've been forecast for snow this coming week!

[georgeb]

Nice to see some old French metal getting the Vulgalour treatment. Know what you mean about brittle plastics, mine's full of it!

All the Renaults of this era had superbly comfortable seats. I had a pair of early 5 seats in my Series 2A Land Rover, what a difference that was.

Keep up the good work.

[vulgalour]

R6 seats (same as or similar to R5 seats I expect) have the power to make even a Land Rover comfortable, of that I'm sure. They're so boingy! The whole car is comically boingy, I still can't get over that.

[qwerty]

Wow! Can't believe how fundamentally solid it is! The gutter repair does look involved but it could have been so much worse.

And as always some first rate cleaning work. Looks like a different interior!

[vulgalour]

It's more solid than the Princess and it has no right to be. Unlike the Princess which had spent a long time in garages and had a restoration at some point, this car was punted out of the barn it had been resting in so that it could fester in a boggy field for a year, was then dragged to a not-boggy patch of outside in another part of Wales quite near the sea and left in all weathers, just getting mopped out to keep it dry-ish. There's no way this car should have survived in the condition it has, I should have had to collect it with a dustpan and brush.

[tineca]

Ken barland with his Thames camper did some detailed gutter repairs. Have a mooch back at his thread. See if you can warm the headlight on a low oven and separate the glass from the sealant. If you can you could line the reflective part with some reflective tape an reseal the glass with tiger seal. I think you are handy enough to make a new side panel from fibreglass. Alternatively glue some vynyl material over it to kind of preserve it. Always look forward to your updates

[vulgalour]

I'm an avid follower of Kev Barlas' Thames thread and that's why I'm aware of just how horrible the gutter repairs will be when I do them. He had the disadvantage of less metal to work with but the big advantage of thicker steel than the Renault has.

I can't repair the headlight as I don't have the lens, that's long gone, otherwise I'd be bodging it back together. I've since learned that I should have a RHD/LHD switch on the back of the headlights so I shouldn't have to try and find a LHD specific light and since the 6 is still relatively commonplace on the continent I should be able to get a new light.

Fibreglass is something I dislike working with. I've made attempts with it in the past and never got very satisfactory results, it's one trade I'm not a jack of. I may be able to source replacement side panels if they're the same as the 4, which is likely given that the 6 is essentially a rebodied and slightly more plush 4.

[Steve79]

I know this is for the drivers side but you might be able to cobble something together to make one good headlight. Looks like these ship to Uk as well.

m.ebay.co.uk/itm/171462142551

[vulgalour]

On the watch list since he has 122 of them. It's not the only listing I've found but it is the cheapest so far. I've been told I might be able to turn a right hand headlight upside down for the left side as the R6 should have RHD/LHD direction beam switches on the headlight units.

[Rich]

Feb 22, 2015 23:32:14 GMT vulgalour said:

On the watch list since he has 122 of them. It's not the only listing I've found but it is the cheapest so far. I've been told I might be able to turn a right hand headlight upside down for the left side as the R6 should have RHD/LHD direction beam switches on the headlight units.

You won't be able to turn one upside down and it still point at the road. It'll aim the beam into the sky, regardless of a 'left/right' traffic switch, which in all honesty on a patterned glass lens isn't either likely to exist and if it does it's only for temporary continent driving, it won't provide a good enough beam pattern for the MOT test. You can't change the side that the beam cuts off effectively without altering (ie, mirroring) the glasses pattern. Sorry to p*ss on your chips on this one mate. You may have to find a source of similar sized rectangle/square headlights to retro fit. Something like Mk1 landrover discovery might fit the bill?

[vulgalour]

I can always fit the round headlights and install some blanking trims to fill up the gap if I'm really in a pinch, round R6 lights are easier to come by. I'll have to check what the lights are capable of before making any decisions on what I purchase. Easiest way to do this is to do a headlight beam alignment check with the one complete light I've got and see what happens when I turn it upside down if for no other reason than to demonstrate why it is or isn't possible as a solution.

There would have to be some clever moulding on the lense to allow for a left/right kick up on the beam pattern that is only appropriately lit with the direction of the bulb and for the same to be in effect when you turn the lens upside down. I suppose it is possible, it likely means you also have really rubbish headlights as a result.

I'll measure the lamps and see what size they are, open up a few more options.

[rlloyd91]

As always, I'm loving the update, your continuous commitment to keep these going, and having nothing phase you, is truly inspirational!

One thing I'd add which might help with the lovely Reno and your wedge is to buy a few damp traps, you can normally pick up 2 for a quid in poundland, I had heard they worked as my grandparents use them in their caravan when storing them, but I put a couple in my 309 while it's in the garage off the road, and considering I'd say it's a dry car (no leaks, no welding ect) I was amazing with what moisture it collected!

[vulgalour]

I've heard mention of those water trap things before, how do they work? In your picture it looks like a Tupperware of chicken stock. I'm guessing it's some sort of silica gel. Could do with one in the Xantia more than the 6 or the Princess.

---

Could have chosen a better day to work outside, there's been an icy wind today turning an otherwise pleasant day into one that's been trying at times. You know me, I'm pretty stubborn when I want to get a job done and today I wanted to at least rebuild the head and tape up the gutters. First, I emptied out the two boxes of Stuff so I could see what I was dealing with.


MrDuke had the foresight to label all the bits of the engine. This sped up the process of rebuilding considerably, if you ever take a car apart do this! I assure you the next person that has to rebuild the jigsaw puzzle will thank you for it.


I wanted to get another look around the car to find water leaks as it had rained early in the morning. I've found one point of water ingress into the boot which will be cured with some sealant.


That rust-stain on the tailgate is definitely leaking. This is a rear screen out job to resolve so I can tidy the surround, paint it and refit the screen.


There was some more water in the footwells again, not a huge amount. The ingress point isn't clear, it looks like it's coming down from the steering column somehow. I also noticed the cardboard trim on the driver's A pillar was a bit soggy, removed it and the sound proofing behind was saturated and rotten. Looks like the dashboard is definitely coming out to resolve this.


Mike demonstrated the valve I'd missed on the compressor so I got the tyre inflated. 20psi on the front and 24psi on the back as per factory. You can also just about make out my duct tape gutter, a temporary solution to hopefully keep the cabin drier.


Checked out the front lights to get to the bottom of what was possible. There is no obvious sign of a LHD/RHD switch and while the user manual - amazingly that's survived being in the car all this time - does instruct there's vertical alignment for use when towing I wasn't sure where this is. I will need a right hand light of some description at some point. It will be easy to bodge something from another car into the hole if I can't get a proper R6 unit. I forgot to measure the lens to see what other square lights are available out there.


Rebuilding the head was easy, ridiculously so. Again I was glad for things being in labelled envelopes because the collets are two different sorts for inlet and exhaust. There's no stem seals on this engine so I expect it will consume some oil in normal use. I didn't take any pictures of the valves, it was such a quick job to clean them up I was done and they were back in the head before I even thought to do it, a far cry from the Princess valves I did.


All the rockers were reinstalled and the head bolted down before refitting the pushrods. All the tappets need adjusting and I'll hand-crank the engine before trying to fire it up. I did find the points are completely worn out, the plug leads are very stiff and the distributor cap has heavily corroded points. Given the affordability of electrical components I'll get points, condenser &c. to refresh what's fitted now, I see no point in going for electronic ignition and would appreciate it if people hold back on suggesting I must do that.


The exhaust manifold was refitted, or at least I attempted to. It lines up nice and easily but the two lower nuts are almost impossible to access, I managed to drop two nuts into the engine bay somewhere and given how cold it was I could not be doing with rummaging about for them. I'll be sure to fish them out later. The front of the exhaust is more solid than I'd expected too.


Fitted a new gasket to the rocker cover and got that bolted on. Really awkward thing to slot in, everything seemed to be in the way of it. This is just to keep the head internals clean and free from anything falling in.



The lovely thing about this engine is that all the components are light and small, it makes it so much nicer than having to lug massive lumps of metal about the place. It's not the easiest engine I've worked on, being pushed so far back in the engine bay makes access on the awkward side. Happily, the liners hadn't budged and the pistons looked to have fared particularly well thank to the oil bath MrDuke had kept them in.

Still a lot of things to put back on and adjust before I attempt to fire up the car. I'm also on the lookout for what laid the car up, there are hints at an electrical issue (oh, Renault) in the scraps of history with the car, that won't be much of a problem since there's so few electrical items on this car to deal with.

[nomad]

Feb 23, 2015 18:57:17 GMT vulgalour said:

I did find the points are completely worn out, the plug leads are very stiff and the distributor cap has heavily corroded points. Given the affordability of electrical components I'll get points, condenser &c. to refresh what's fitted now, I see no point in going for electronic ignition and would appreciate it if people hold back on suggesting I must do that.

I'm also on the lookout for what laid the car up, there are hints at an electrical issue (oh, Renault) in the scraps of history with the car, that won't be much of a problem since there's so few electrical items on this car to deal with.

Looks like a fun project   
We wouldn't dream of advising you to fit 'leccy ignition but new leads, plugs, points, dizzy cap etc might help.
Let me know if you needs plugleads (or glowplugs ) as I have a few spares in stock.
Cheeky plug ( & leads ) retrorides.proboards.com/thread/156373/retro-dealer-clearance-plugleads-glowplugs

To start with, maybe use a hotwire direct from battery to the coil to power the ignition, just in case of dodgy wiring in the car or ignition switch 

ps. Bookmarked 

[vulgalour]

I need points, condenser, plug leads and spark plugs. Might also need a distributor cap and a battery. When I looked through your list I didn't see a match for the Xantia glowplugs, I will need some as when it gets a couple of degrees below freezing they don't work too well and I know only 3 were changed by the previous owner.

[vulgalour]

Today I have learned that there is left-right and up-down adjustment on the headlights. For left-right there's a plastic nubbin that makes the bulb sit to one side or the other, suitable for continental travelling but may not be suitable for switching a LHD lamp for a UK MoT. The up-down is a little plastic lever on the back of both bowls and both work, that's for when I'm towing or heavily laden.

With that learned it was time to remove the wings, to do that I needed to remove the headlight trims and since I was doing that I might as well remove the grille. One tab for the grille screws had turned to powder, another screw had a rounded head and when I tried to drill it out I accidentally melted the plastic grille screw hole to the size of the screw head. One of the top locater tabs for the grille also snapped, I put the piece aside safe but then it disappeared, I hope it reappears again so I can repair it. These things happen, no matter how careful you are.

With the wings off I could get a look behind them. First thing I was faced with was a fat lazy wasp under one wing and three large not-so-lazy wasps under the other. FRIKKIN WASPS! I was also faced with a surprisingly large amount of metal, a very small amount of surface rust and enough dirt to build a second Isle of Anglesey.




There wasn't any water ingress apparent from behind the wings except for one tiny pinhole on the passenger side which will no doubt grow once I try and fix it. The wings are both replacements, one originally a pattern wing the other originally metallic green which matches the front door on the same side. They're in very good salvagable condition but feel flimsier than the NOS ones I was given, I'll probably refit the ones I removed today and get the NOS ones repainted for that day I might get the whole car shiny.




More chuffin wasps! There was another one sticking it's bum out of a trim hole in the sill on this side but I didn't photograph that.


Mike helped me set up the pushrods so we could give turning the engine a go. There's some movement but not enough to crank the engine over more than a fraction of a turn. Rather than fighting with the engine in situ we decided to remove it from the car. When we jacked up the passenger side to help with that a whole load of fresh water came out from this point, I'm not entirely sure how it had got in but I was glad it came out.


Then water started coming out of the rear end, I can't figure out how the water has even got in here, it seems to be coming out through a pinhole in the rear floor that doesn't correlate to the inside of the car, and nothing above it inside the cabin was wet or even damp. Quite a bit came out too.




To get the engine out it seemed that everything needed to come off. The wings and 'face' had already been removed, the bonnet was next, then the radiator (and I managed to snap off a plastic pipe that had fused with the rubber pipe connected to it), then the headlight panel... before we knew what was happening there was very little front end left.


Didn't get any further. Next stage is a two-man job and Mike didn't want to help any more so I went home. We're pretty much at the stage where it's a case of getting the engine crane in, unbolting the mounts, disconnecting the drive shafts and lifting it out. The whole engine and gearbox combo can fit in a wheelbarrow so it's easy peasy to do. Looks like I'm going to be doing a full engine rebuild on this one, thankfully parts are cheap and plentiful for this engine.

[Rich]

I'm still expecting the left-right to be the beam setting adjustment rather than anything else. Good work getting the front apart, looks much more solid than It should be allowed to be, being old and French!