1980 Austin Princess mild custom - 1951 Lanchester LD10

[VW]

Apr 21, 2017 22:08:01 GMT vulgalour said:

... nothing.

I'll have to double-check I can do that but you may well be a genius.

Permanent threads would be best, tiny rivnuts available? But if its not coming out often self tappers will hold it. Use the old ring as a big pressure spreading washer. Drill the washer and sender big Enough for the threads to not catch so it always clamps down properly.
will need a proper gasket, not an O ring but I guess it has a proper gasket anyway.

[vulgalour]

The only reason I can think it might not work is that there's two slots that the sender plate locates into which might cause unsolvable leaks and that could be why it has the clamping slip ring instead. But if it's all screwed down and then sealed over the top it would be fine I expect. You only need to disturb this bit when replacing the pump which is not a job you need to do often, sometimes not a job you need to do at all. It's a back-up plan for now, and back-up plans are useful!

[blackpopracing]

Sealed rivnuts might work but screws won't. Petrol will leak down the threads which is why it uses the twist action clamping ring. Petrol may even leak past the rivnuts but some red hematite on them before fitting should work.

[VW]

Apr 21, 2017 22:55:48 GMT blackpopracing said:

Sealed rivnuts might work but screws won't. Petrol will leak down the threads which is why it uses the twist action clamping ring. Petrol may even leak past the rivnuts but some red hematite on them before fitting should work.

What does every other fuel tank with screw in sender do then?

Could put copper washers under the screw heads.

Sender screws in on my bedford and that tank is regularly filled half way up the filler neck with no leaking.
Not sure if the threads are open to the inside but I'm pretty sure they are from when I last saw it.
Or just not enough threaded length with a screw over a machine screw?




Hang on, you say 'down' the threads. Is rhe sender not in the top of the tank?

[Rich]

Apr 22, 2017 9:58:03 GMT VW said:

Hang on, you say 'down' the threads. Is rhe sender not in the top of the tank?

It's low down, on the side, like an MGB. Silly idea really.

[vulgalour]

VW, If you go back a page you can see where the sender sits and the weird wide shallow shape of the tank. They probably did it this way to maximise boot space and ground clearance, which makes the tank so shallow a top-down sender isn't really practical.

In better news, a gas bottle for the welder is being ordered next week and a friend who works with MGBs is going to raid the work's spares stash when he's back from holiday to see if he can salvage a decent ring for me. In the meantime, the car is just out of action. My radio-cassette arrived and the reason the tape deck isn't working is an old BASF tape is jammed in there so that's off to another friend who knows his way around this sort of thing and has offered to fix it for me.

Who knows, I might even get the exhaust resealed again (again) and the dash PCB done while the car is off the road. Then hopefully there'll be no more bodge. I can't imagine where is left for any more bodge to hide at this point!

[glenanderson]

I've got a scrap Land-Rover tank out on the pile. When I get home tonight I will dig it out and see if it's a suitable donor.

[darrenh]

early coil sprung land rover tanks are about 100 quid for shtpart/bearmach ones. second hand might be an idea as on those vehicles the sender is at the top and tucked up high in the body, way out of reach of any splash or weather (under the drives seat, eek)

if it were me i'd be tempted to put a blob of weld where the missing tang should be and get busy with needle file.

alternatively VW idea is not terrible.

conveniently a picture of earlier leaf sprung land rover sender. it has captive nuts on the inside of the tank though, or atleast a robust ring of steel with threads cut in it for machine screws...

[VW]

I'm sure every screw in sender ive had has had either captive nuts or a thicker ring inside with threads and the sender held in with machine screws. But on all of them I'm sure the threaded holes arent blind and go right through.

If another Collar is available though and someone is prepared to put a welder to the tank then fair play.

I know what way id be fixing it though!

[glenanderson]

Too dark to look properly tonight, but at a quick glance it looks good. I'll survey it properly tomorrow and get back to you with a picture.

Tank is from a series 109" with a rear fill, so the sender is at the top, right up under the floor, so well out of the way of any salt or debris. Diesel too, so oily enough to keep the rust at bay.

The only downside is that it might be early enough to be a soldered up tank, which would make transplanting it trickier. I'm pretty sure all the tanks that have this fitting are welded though - it's why the sender fitting method changed I think. Earlier tanks have six screws that fit into a cast brass ring, with blind screw holes to prevent leaks, which is soldered into the top of the tank. Like I say, I'll check tomorrow after work in the daylight.

[vulgalour]

Apr 22, 2017 19:45:16 GMT darrenh said:

if it were me i'd be tempted to put a blob of weld where the missing tang should be and get busy with needle file.

That was the original plan, it's only when we inspected it with the tank repairer that we could see the metal on that part of the ring is so thin and bashed about that it would just dissolve as soon as you made the attempt. Happily, same tank repairer is willing to graft a good replacement ring onto my tank for £notalot so that's my preferred route. Hopefully Glen's scrap tank yields the part required, that would be brilliant.

Switching to the screw in type is more complicated than I'd like to go on this, I can see it causing more problems than it'll solve and it's going to be no easier to get the parts to do it than getting the ring I need to repair my original tank.

In happier news, I finally finished sorting my spares and the garage out and I've found the mechanical fuel pump blanking plate I'd misplaced so I don't need to fork out for a new one of those, and I found my good cambelt cover. I also found a few obscure bits and pieces I'd forgotten about which I can find much easier now all my boxes are organised properly.

To celebrate, the Rover has started making a peculiar occasional noise on the belt side of the engine which seems to be bearing or pulley related. I'm hoping it's nothing serious. Only seems to do it when the engine is cold and it's one of those that comes and goes randomly so you can't replicate it to find it. Hate faults like that, they're always a nuisance to track down.

[glenanderson]

Photo, as promised.

If it's the right type, and I'm pretty sure it is, then I'm happy to chop it out and post it up to you. The area it's welded to is flat, so it should transplant no bother.



PM me your address, and let me know how much margin you want me to leave around the outside.

Cheers, Glen.

[vulgalour]

LEGEND! PM incoming

[glenanderson]

I'll get on it first thing tomorrow.

[darrenh]

it looks spot welded, but will no doubt be lead caulked to seal it

also those two notch cutouts, from what i remember they are just so the sender is clocked correctly

[vulgalour]

The repair guy said some are spot welded (pretty sure this is too, it's got those telltale flat circles), some are rivetted and it's a repair he's done before so I shall be leaving it in his capable hands. I'll report back on what was done of course. Now I've got the new relay, new fuel pump and the old blanking plate and glen has found the piece needed for the repair this should eliminate the worst oil leak and may even help reduce the hot start issue since the fuel line will be running slightly further away from the manifold than it is now and the pump won't be sat in a hot spot.

I'm looking forward to getting all this sorted, it's a step in the right direction.

[glenanderson]

All chopped out. 



Definitely spot welded on. The tank panel is dimpled, and the securing ring spot welded on the top, so there's no joint to caulk. It should be straightforward for the tank repairer chap to either transplant the securing ring, or a complete repair patch, depending what he finds as he unstitches the original Princess tank. 

Will be in the hands of the Royal Mail within the hour.

[Davey]

This is what makes me love this place. Good on you Glen. Now get it welded on quick sharp, more princess updates are good princess updates.

[vulgalour]

In protest, the Rover killed its battery today without any sort of warning. That's an expense I could've done without. Hoping it's just an elderly battery issue and not something more worrisome like a dodgy alternator.

[vulgalour]

Thanks to the generosity of glenanderson I got the part needed for the fuel tank and today had some time to do something about it.  First thing I wanted to do was scrape off all the loose underseal and flaking paint on the tank so I could assess for any hidden damage.  Overall it looks in reasonable shape.


Checked that the sender and slip ring fit in the bit of salvaged Land Rover tank and it does.  The main difference between the two is that the hole in the tank on the Land Rover doesn't have the additional long cut out the Princess one does to make getting the sender in and out easier.  It's otherwise identical.


Here is the Princess tank piece that has the missing tab.  You can also clearly see the two locating slots and the longer slot to allow the sender to go in and out of the tank easier.  Since we should theoretically just be changing the welded-on ring between the tanks this shouldn't be an issue.


The other area of concern is one separating seam.  It doesn't leak, thankfully.  Now is the perfect time to get this sorted out and when the tank was delivered to the refurbishing place we decided it best to give the tank the full works rather than just repairing/replacing the sender ring, especially so since a new tank is not available and second ones are difficult to get hold of.  I've set aside the Rover's tyre budget for this, it should be more than enough.  I won't get the tank back until next week because of May Day Bank Holiday.


In the meantime I can get on with sorting out the boot floor and all the bits the fuel tank obscures.  Welding gas should be here tomorrow and I should have enough time spare on the weekend to crack on with all that.  Next job while I was there was removing the mechanical fuel pump.  I gave the fuel tank brackets a tickle on the wire wheel and I'll be soaking these in some rust remover before painting them.


I still haven't removed the timing belt cover bracket from my old head so I can't fit it yet.  Here it is anyway, as a notice of intent.  I also need to replace the three o-rings that serve as fixings on it.


The blanking plate is steel rather than aluminium and has a bonded rubber side.  I cleaned off the old scabby paint and a little surface rust before repainting it with some VHT 'aluminium' which isn't that bad a colour match to the bare metal of the head.  A little extra sealing compound to be on the safe side and it was bolted in place.  This should resolve the biggest oil leak on the car.


Lots tidier looking without the mechanical pump now.  Other things to help tidy it up are changing the head so I don't have the black filler cap and reinstating a Princess fan which lives on the front of the radiator rather than the Rover 'bubble' 400 fan I've got on the back of it.


When the fuel tank is sorted and the Princess is usable again I'll take the Rover off the road so I can do its exhaust and stuff.  I ordered some new shiny things from Rimmers because they've currently got a 60+% off sale on R8 stuff which tempted me to stretch my budget further than usual to get some things I likely can't in the future.  More on that another day.