1988 Renault 21 Nevada GTS

[düdo]

Thanks again 65mustang I do appreciate the replies. The forum does provide a sense of community in our diverse and often frustrating projects

You're right.. every mechanic has their limitations no matter how good. I suppose as he's a pro I was expecting a miracle fix as I normally do everything myself. But he's only a bloke!

We had problems with our gas heating at home which went on for months with the fault codes being mis-diagnosed by different experts and costing us €€€s in parts to no avail til some random bloke was here for another job and - because he'd seen the problem before ( a break in the very top of the flue) - nailed it there and then for no cost.

Anyway, I can't recall changing the inlet temp sensor.. I think I overlooked that one.

[Phil H]

If temp is hitting (or reporting) 160 degrees that sounds like a short circuit? Most EFI engines can usually run of a fashion with one sensor duff but I have a feeling Renix isn't one of them as they engineered out the redundancy to make it simpler/cheaper/French (choose as you see fit).

[düdo]

It's quite unbelievable but, four years after being dragged out of its field, it's back in the traffic. Well, currently parked over the road..

The problem turned out to be the wrong ECU was installed. All the information we could find indicated that this was the correct ECU ( don't trust anything you read) so it went off to be tested, then tested again. I bought two further ECUs supposedly for the R21 but no joy. Engelbert contacted Renault to find the original ECU number but they didn't have a clue.

This was when I started loosing faith. I have a R21 Nevada parts catalogue from the early 90s and this lists eight possible ECUs that would have been used on the 1.7 fuel injected models but a further book is required to decipher exactly for which model : single point or multi-point injection, automatic, lower or higher output. So I decided to buy all the ECUs on the list so see if one would work. Luckily all are to be had for an average of €20 these days but probably only half work anyway.

So while I was going through this process without much luck - plugging one in, letting the engine warm up etc only to get the stalling, I found an old thread on The UK Renault forums where someone was having problems with their R21 Savanna. So I joined the club and had to post five times before I could contact this member who had been inactive for over four years. And.. surprisingly a few days later he contacted me and we started exchanging messages about our R21s - he says 'Savanna' I say 'Nevada' but they are almost the same model. He provided me with the number of his ECU.

I found one on eBay which was listed for a Renault 19 but with the same F3N 722 engine code. For €10 I thought it was worth a punt. So I plugged it in, ran the engine up to temp... it didn't stall... fan kicked in.. didn't stall. Turned it off, turned it on over and over and it worked! Could not believe it.

Then had it on the road for the first time with red numbers ( like trade plates) and it behaved itself but revealed that probably from being sat in its field for all those years, three wheel bearings were shot. So three wheel bearings installed last week and now registered and back on the road for the first time since 2001. I'll take some more pics with better light and setting but today went out with all six of us for a ride. Drove really well like a spongy old French car should with the only issue being the kids fighting over who sits in the very rear seats!

 I wanted the number to spell KN OW 1 ( no one!) but that was gone so I got KN OW 8 - doesn't mean anything but looks alright. Only have to pay an extra €10 here for choice of number

[melle]

Great news! Well deserved after all your hard graft.

[tigerfox]

Congratulations on your perseverance and resolving the problem. You must be so pleased.

I have worked in many dealer parts department's including Renault and getting a part number from the original part usually gets the job done even as in your case it is not listed for your car.

Hope it runs well for you

[stevietuck]

Excellent news, well done.

[düdo]

Thankyou everyone. I did almost give up.. several times

last night while I was having a small beer I was again thinking about the F7P engine from the Renault 19 which is basically the same block just with a 16v head and a further 40bhp. Not sure if anyone's put it in a 21 already?

For the moment though, the wife will be commuting with the Nevada as the rest of the wrecks have disgraced themselves. 2017 augers a change of scene : purge of current vehicle line-up. Mercedes van going, Citroens also, the era of hydro-pneumatics is over for me. Not getting with the 21st century vehicle yet - no dear - just more space so I can build a proper, all-season workshop.

This is what the Nevada's all about - seven seats in a compact package and still space enough behind for the dog and a couple of cases of beer. And it works!

[barchettaman]

First post - just registered to congratulate you on the revival of the Renault. Quite the story.

Frohes Neues Jahr aus Frankfurt am Main!

[düdo]

Vielen Dank barchettaman , guten Rutsch! ( 'Good slide'.. into 2017.. as they say here) And to all Retro Riders

[mondeogrd]

So happy you got this one on the road! Wife was at me yesterday to go back to a Sav then i see this!
Happy New Year,
Geoff.

[melle]

Shame the BX is going, but one can't keep everything.

[mrmoonyman]

Really really pleased to read that you've finally solved it - congratulations!

And you came so close to giving up too. Really big well done.

I had a similar issue in the early days of my 9000: it started but ran very rich and idled at 4000rpm upwards followed by just not starting at all. Was after loads had been done but I hadn't driven it for 6 months plus.

It turned out to be a broken wire. But I came so so close to giving up!

[düdo]

melle Yes it's a hard decision to sell the BX. The injection pump gave up two weeks ago - ten years to the day that we bought it! In those ten years we covered many Kms and I picked all my new born children up from the hospital using it. But we've outgrown it. This year it is eligible for 'historic status' ( though it's 31 yrs old it's only been registered for 30) but I don't have the urge to do the work necessary - I'm hoping to find a Citroen enthusiast who will do that.

In the winter of 2010 I completely re-piped it : forty five suspension and brake pipes over a period of six weeks. And we never had a single issue or leak from the hydro-pneumatic suspension. It's going to be a pain to get it out of the barn onto a trailer because it doesn't start and therefore doesn't lift. With it comes a stash of spares from two Mk.1 BXs that I broke - most of this stuff is impossible to find, at least in anything approaching reasonable condition. So someone will be happy I hope. And I look forward to freeing up some space.

Having the barn, it's too easy to fill it up til you can't move or do any proper work. When we took the barn on, there were old cars parked outside and all around the place from the previous tenants. These were cleared and I made a decision never to have any car that I couldn't fit in the barn - keep it nice and tidy.

Thanks mondeogrd would be interested if you could still find a good 'Sav' in the UK. Easier to get Sav'n'chips from the takeaway! I wouldn't mind some proper English chips right now actually.. with curry sauce. Things I miss from home..


Thanks mrmoonyman - we were always looking for the broken wire too but it was ultimately my mechanic friend Engelbert who said it could only be the ECU despite other mates of mine saying : he doesn't know what he's doing, ask somewhere else!


We went out en famille yesterday in the Nevada. It feels and drives like an old French car - enjoyable but definately a vintage piece, especially when loaded with two adults, four kids and a dog. The BX only had a 65hp diesel plant and the Nevada 96hp petrol but the difference isn't immediately noticeable, probably because I'm still pussy footing expecting something to break. But The engine runs like a watch, almost inaudible at tick-over and the missus is bowled over by the central locking!

The wife is using it to commute for the foreseeable but once I've got the Tigra sorted ( -9° is way too cold for spannering) I'm considering giving it a mild 'breathing on' - I just get it sorted and I'm already looking for a R19 16v donor whore! Those significant 45 horses. Check back in 2020 for the 16v version.



Still looking for the rubbing strip for the rear door!

[brendanr]

Great to see! I have been having a productive month myself with the R11 overhaul wise but beginning to lose faith with the engine side of things. I thought that before I do my update tonight I'd check out your R21 and fingers crossed, be inspired. Looks like it paid off! Another day out of the scrapper. I'd say the F7P would make it feel a bit more "modern". It's a shame the 2 litre F7R isn't more common/cheap. The 2.0 litre would give more torque which is really what you'd want with a 7 seater.

[brendanr]

In updating my own thread I came up with another solution. The 2.0 litre engine from a Volvo 480/460. A perfect match for a 7 seater family hauler. It's an F-type engine, same gearboxes (with a much imporved and softer clutch release mechanism). The engine wiring has to be separated from the crazy CEM wiring for the Volvo integrated stuff that always breaks though. It's a brilliant engine and very underrated because of the turbo 1.7. So much low down torque for a 4 cylinder that puts out only 110HP or so. It spins the wheels in 2nd gear if you aren't careful, redlines at about 5500RPM sort of like a diesel. Easily gets over 40mpg on the motorway and cruises under 3000RPM. I averaged 43MPG at 70-75MPH driving from London to Holyhead recently. The exhaust and intake are on one (the same as the 21's) side so it's probably a lot less work that the F7P with the cross flow head. Just food for thought!

[pologaz]

I can remember in the early 90s, as a 10 or 11 year old, going to look at a few of these with my dad. My little sister had just arrived which meant there were 4 kids in the family now and my dad only had a sierra hatchback!

In the end I think it was the engine choice that stopped him from getting one. - I know the 1.7 was too small, we had just bought a 4.5 berth caravan and his sierra 1.6 hatch was woefully underpowered. The 1.7 carb savanna being only equal on power. I'll have to ask him why he ended up buying another sierra instead. (2.0 carb pinto estate, which still wasn't quite good enough) Infact we never had a 7 seat car, we somehow always managed without. He put two britax child seats in the boot of his sierra estate, mounted on home made frames. Don't quite remember what we did once they outgrew them. My dad did eventually buy a 240 estate, but even that didn't have the optional third row. But I digress.

What is it with kids wanting to sit on the back row? I know that's where we would have wanted to be. My partners children love the idea of sitting in the boot as well. Perhaps it's just the novelty of it.

[düdo]

Thanks brendanr for the engine concepts. The F7R sounds interesting. I thought it would have to be the F7P if I ever got round to doing the swap as that fits the right way round in there and I could use the existing mounts. Would make it easier to get TÜV approval. But I haven't really gone any further into it.

The missus is commuting daily with the Nevada at the moment and despite recent temps going down to -18°, it spring into life every morning straightaway. The week before last I had to quickly fit some winter tyres as her rather rural journey to work was decorated with cars that had slid off the road. It's returning about 7.5 l / 100 kms or 38 mpg. I don't think she'd appreciate me taking it apart again right now after such a long, drawn out saga from the field to the road.

Thanks for the reminiscences pologaz. I like the sound of your dad's improvised seating. Such innovation was more common a few years ago.

There was also a 2 litre Savanna which had 135 bhp but the 1.7 in the UK was even more underpowered as it was mostly carb fed except for the late models and would have only had around 75bhp.

I enjoy everyones' memories of the Savanna/Nevada as it invariably involves four kids like I've got. It's the one extra kid that takes you out of the classic five seat arrangement and into the perils of Nevada ownership. My father had a Peugeot 504 with the three rows of seats but they are quite pricey here now, those that haven't gone off to Africa to become million miler taxis.

[barchettaman]

-18°? Bloody hell, I thought -10° here in Frankfurt was bad.

Let´s hope it gets back up to ´sensible´ temperatures here soon. My cycle commute (8 miles) is properly chilly at the moment.

[pologaz]

Jan 23, 2017 11:35:45 GMT düdo said:

Thanks brendanr for the engine concepts. The F7R sounds interesting. I thought it would have to be the F7P if I ever got round to doing the swap as that fits the right way round in there and I could use the existing mounts. Would make it easier to get TÜV approval. But I haven't really gone any further into it.

The missus is commuting daily with the Nevada at the moment and despite recent temps going down to -18°, it spring into life every morning straightaway. The week before last I had to quickly fit some winter tyres as her rather rural journey to work was decorated with cars that had slid off the road. It's returning about 7.5 l / 100 kms or 38 mpg. I don't think she'd appreciate me taking it apart again right now after such a long, drawn out saga from the field to the road.

Thanks for the reminiscences pologaz . I like the sound of your dad's improvised seating. Such innovation was more common a few years ago.

There was also a 2 litre Savanna which had 135 bhp but the 1.7 in the UK was even more underpowered as it was mostly carb fed except for the late models and would have only had around 75bhp.

I enjoy everyones' memories of the Savanna/Nevada as it invariably involves four kids like I've got. It's the one extra kid that takes you out of the classic five seat arrangement and into the perils of Nevada ownership. My father had a Peugeot 504 with the three rows of seats but they are quite pricey here now, those that haven't gone off to Africa to become million miler taxis.

I'll have to ask him about the 2.0 - I'm sure he knew about it. Maybe there was some extra cost involved, or he couldn't find one. Though they were only about 4-5 years old at the time so there should have been a few about.

My brother used to get picked up in a 505 family with 8 seats. That must've been on my dad's radar too but I don't recall him ever looking at getting one of them.

I'm not far off a similar situation myself, but with us, its carting elderly relatives about. I'd much rather have one of these over a modern mpv. You just can't buy a 7/8 seat estate car now. Think E class mercs might still have it as an option...but way out of my price range.

[düdo]

pologaz wrote

I'll have to ask him about the 2.0 - I'm sure he knew about it. Maybe there was some extra cost involved, or he couldn't find one. Though they were only about 4-5 years old at the time so there should have been a few about.

My brother used to get picked up in a 505 family with 8 seats. That must've been on my dad's radar too but I don't recall him ever looking at getting one of them.

I'm not far off a similar situation myself, but with us, its carting elderly relatives about. I'd much rather have one of these over a modern mpv. You just can't buy a 7/8 seat estate car now. Think E class mercs might still have it as an option...but way out of my price range.
like

The 2.0 Savanna was more expensive. I was also looking at Peugeot 505s. I saw for sale in France a 505 with - for me - the ultimate spec. It was the Familiale version with 7-seats, low mileage, full service history, diesel and most significantly it was the rare 4WD Dangel version. Unfortunately the price of such a rarity was €10k - €8.5k more than I had to spend!

Re elderly relative haulage, I don't think the Nevada would be that great as the rearmost seats are really only for children up to about twelve years. After that their heads would press on the ceiling. The E class Merc isn't a real seven seater as the two occasional back seats face backwards and take up the whole boot when employed. My mate bought a used one as his wife is such a marque snob and he's had no end of electrical problems with it. Two memorable ones not being able to get into the car at all or all the family having to climb out through the boot as the doors wouldn't unlock! I told him he should have bought a Galaxy.