Weird intake stuff on Peugeot J5/Talbot Express engine-HELP

[delux]

Hello

I need some help figuring out what's going on with the intake setup on my newly acquired '89 Talbot Express 2.0 Petrol motor (build thread coming soon)... I started to have a look around after picking it up this weekend and driving it 90 miles home; although it smelt rich when running (choke off) - it went pretty well, even on the M25 cruising at 62mph, despite what I'm finding under the bonnet so the good news is I can expect more from it when this is all sorted.

If you have some experience with old Peugeot petrol engines I'd be most grateful for some assistance with figuring this mess out...I must point out that at some point in this motorhomes past it had LP fitted, then that engine blew and another was fitted 18k miles ago - it's only done 67k.

Firstly: my intake boot is 'modified' just above the carb - there are appears to be some bodging going on here with a brass take-off connector just sucking in air post air filter (not good) and the top take-off connector for the hose that runs to the vacuum canister (I think) behind the intake cylinder is fitted badly with silicon and also letting in air. I know I need to fix this and from what I can find on the web the brass connector is not needed (perhaps it had to do with the LPG system that was installed on this vehicle in the past) - can someone please confirm?



I'm guessing I need a new intake boot - anyone got one for me please?

Secondly: at the vacuum canister behind the air box cylinder there is a small take-off connector that once again is just sucking in air but I can't seem to find another connector elsewhere on the engine that this vacuum hose might connect to. Should this be blanked off?



Thirdly: Below the battery I have this little gubbins. It's not connected to anything and has a loose hose dangling in the engine bay as seen in the pic. Can I ditch this or should it be doing something?



Fourth: to the rear of the engine, and a part of the exhaust manifold it seems, is this steel pipe - what the heck is this for?



Should it connect to this cut-off pipe at the rear of the air box?
If so, why?



Lastly: for now...what is this metal insert in my intake boot? It sits just above the carb and I'm thinking it's related to the errant brass connector...is this normal?



Your help would be much appreciated!
Cheers
Steve

[Bolf]

The brass dohickey in the intake is the LPG venturi thing.

The metal pipe on the exhaust and the pipe on the intake is to stop the carb icing. (hot air feed in cold situations)

The electrical thing tied to the battery tray could be the original LPG kit too

[Rich]

As said, the metal thing in the intake is the Venturi for the gas conversion. That can come out. The electrical thing is also most definitely a shutoff valve or something to do with the LPG. The intake pipe work might be repairable. Is it plastic or rubber? If it's plastic you could plastic weld the holes up.

[delux]

Thank you Bolf and rich!

I think there's a few remnants of the LPG system left that I'm going to need to remove.

The intake pipe is more plastic than rubber so I'll look into the 'plastic welding' - I'm not familiar with that.

Any idea about number 2?

[Bolf]

Nov 28, 2016 22:11:34 GMT delux said:

Thank you Bolf and rich!

I think there's a few remnants of the LPG system left that I'm going to need to remove.

The intake pipe is more plastic than rubber so I'll look into the 'plastic welding' - I'm not familiar with that.

Any idea about number 2?

Suspect that might be part of the breather system ,

[Rich]

Number 2 is a breather part. Look up Peugeot service box on a search engine of your choosing, create a free sign in, feed it the last 8 of your VIN and have a look and see on the parts diagrams if you can see where it should go to. It's also useful to have access for other parts and cross references

[delux]

That's a brilliant resource rich cheers!

So now I know my engine model is an XN1T - that's going to be very helpful when considering any potential power upgrades (such as a turbo) or a engine swap candidate, but first I must get this one totallly sorted seeing as though it ran well it should run even better.

[ChasR]

What rich & Bolf said.

I'd also check your cooling system with a fine toothed comb. IME alot of LPG cars tend to need new engines due to poor vaporiser plumbing (the plastic take offs are an appalling quality, leaking and becoming brittle surprisingly quickly). What happens IME is that the engines leak water, can't hold pressure and boil.

Due to the above alot of people who had LPG cars in a previous place I used to work never had them working reliably, even with dealer converted cars.

I have been bitten once with such a car (which was professionally converted previously to add insult to injury) and in hindsight I should have changed the entire cooling system (radiator, the lot). I'd end up changing it all eventually anyway due to the engine running too hot and swelling/weakening all of the hoses.

[delux]

Hey ChasR whatsup

More finding random stuff - I've got this sticking out of the bulkhead but it's blanked off:



Is this the LPG feed?

[Bolf]

I'd have said the vaporiser would've been attached to it at some point , haha

[delux]

Coolio so I can just pull this hose out.

It turns out I've still got two LPG tanks still fitted underneath the van! That'll free up some weight! A big black one and a red one - do these need to be removed by a certified engineer or can I just unbolt them?

[ChasR]

Hello Stranger. Everything alright? You'll have to give me a heads up when you are next down at the Ace. For me it will be a German Car Night.

Nothing to stop you from taking the tanks off at all. However, are you OK to check what kind of valve is on them? If they are at the top this can be done by lowering the tank. If it's a Multivalve whatever LPG is in there will stay in there once you take off the LPG pipes going to the front of the car. However, people will fit all sorts of stuff in an attempt to falsely lower costs.

[delux]

There's a dial on the side of the red tank but nothing on the larger black one that I can see, perhaps I can drop them without disconnecting anything

[ChasR]

That depends.

Do you know what the pipework goes to once it leaves the tank? If it doesn't go to a solenoid or vapouriser and basically has nothing attached you are probably OK to lower them. If the valve on the tank has a solenoid you should be ok.

I was thinking of disconnecting them as you'll have to get them away from the vehicle unless you fancy dragging them around . Most LPG setups I have seen tend to have either a small bore plastic LPG pipe (I've only really seen this being use for the past 4 or 5 years however) linking the tank to the vapouriser/solenoid or in most cases copper pipe which will have work hardened by now.

Putting the pipe onto the car in the first place is a nightmare unless it's the PVC stuff.

OTOH there is a chance the pipework has been disconnected?

You've just reminded me. I need to stick a few LPG kits of mine in the classifieds .

[delux]

Could that red hose poking through the bulkhead be the one you're thinking of?

[kevins]

You certainly need to get the tanks off, I wouldn't like to run around with tanks of unknown history and partially removed pipework god knows what is under there, the old ones used to have gauges on top, the second was probably added to extend the range, the solenoid in your pictures is a LPG cut off solenoid, there should be solenoid valves or manual taps on the tanks and the fill pipes should have non return valves so the tanks should be safe to remove.

I have run LPG cars for many years, the first 2 I converted myself, the 3rd was professionally done but I ended up re-doing most of it. The problem is there are so many dodgy conversions around, when I had it inspected the guy said the diy conversions are often the best ones because the so called professionals are trying to cut everything down to the lowest cost. Using decent quality parts (especially the vaporizer) taking your time to route and clip pipes properly etc makes for a reliable system.

[master-b]

Nov 29, 2016 11:26:42 GMT delux said:

Hey ChasR whatsup

More finding random stuff - I've got this sticking out of the bulkhead but it's blanked off:



Is this the LPG feed?

No, it's nothing to do with lpg system. It's the bleed valve for the heater matrix. Google JK Towers and TalbotOC for all the knowledge you'll ever need for these vans / engines

[delux]

Thanks dude. Yeah I've registered on TOC master-b - there's a lot there but with the owner AFK & my access to info is still limited. It's good that sites like that are around so I don't mind chucking something in the kitty either to get members content.

Thanks for the assurance about removing the tanks kevins - I'm going to spray penetrating fluid on the bolts & drop them this weekend. I'd be much happier with knowing what's going on exactly with stuff like that or not have it at all. Is there a way to empty them safely?

Right now sourcing a new J-boot is proving fruitless. I may need to make one but other bits are on the way.

[ChasR]

Nov 30, 2016 19:27:39 GMT kevins said:

You certainly need to get the tanks off, I wouldn't like to run around with tanks of unknown history and partially removed pipework god knows what is under there, the old ones used to have gauges on top, the second was probably added to extend the range, the solenoid in your pictures is a LPG cut off solenoid, there should be solenoid valves or manual taps on the tanks and the fill pipes should have non return valves so the tanks should be safe to remove.

I have run LPG cars for many years, the first 2 I converted myself, the 3rd was professionally done but I ended up re-doing most of it. The problem is there are so many dodgy conversions around, when I had it inspected the guy said the diy conversions are often the best ones because the so called professionals are trying to cut everything down to the lowest cost. Using decent quality parts (especially the vaporizer) taking your time to route and clip pipes properly etc makes for a reliable system.

That is probably one of the few honest installers around!

I've converted around 5 cars myself and only this year in the family we no longer have an LPG car. One of those which was converted had a "reputable" installer saying it looked like a home job due to a custom made injector rail for securing the injectors on the car (and not loosely like it seems many installers do). It did however do 150k on the system with only a cut injector wire to show for it. A company job? I recall their system was always playing up (one of the installations we did for a customer had him go elsewhere as we quoted too high a price for the job (around £1200 for a Vauxhall Vectra 2007; this was during the recession when the Euro was strong against the £ ; most LPG kits that are decent are from Italy), as opposed to £1k.

delux, I'll get some pics of what LPG pipe looks like. Most of the time it's basically 8mm small bore copper pipe with a rubber coating on it. As for emptying it you car use the LPG Emergency blow-out valve on the multivalve assuming it has one.

[kevins]

Yes he said they had given up trying to compete in the mass market and were focusing on fixing systems installed by others, people who were prepared to pay more, especially for oddball conversions and inspections.

The company was Quest motorsport, they do modified vehicle builds as well, even had a rolling road.