Hillman imp + Honda flat 6. Musical engine swap game..

[Darkspeed]

That looks great - what better encouragement could you have.

Probably covering ground you have already been over - for ITB's keep an eye out for the BMW K1000 ones - they will fit the bill perfectly.


So the engine does have a drop gear like the K1000 to a clutch pack that will drive the right direction for an Imp style box - So if you could drive off of the clutch pack it would "just" be an adapter plate like the K1000. What does it look like if you turn the Subaru box upside down and coupled it to the clutch pack?

[melle]

Jul 18, 2020 10:50:55 GMT yoeddynz said:

I stood back and admired it. Wow! It just looked so bloody spot on in there! Man - if my juices weren't fizzing with excitement previously as I stripped the engine down they certainly were now.

"I think that might work" must be the most exciting stage of a project, maybe even more exciting than starting it up for the first time!

[jamesd1972]

Jul 18, 2020 15:38:44 GMT horrido said:

Will this make it a Hillda Goldwimp?

Now you’ve started something !

Hillman GoldImp ?

Impwings ?

Goldheart ?

Heart of gold ?


Engine looks completely epic in there BTW. Carry on
James

[biturbo228]

Yeah that looks made for the car! This is going to be so cool.

Is the k1000 the BMW triple one? I know the K75 was a triple so should have a bank of 3 ITBs. Depending on the power output there might be Teiumph varieties too.

Or does the k1000 have separate runners?

[Darkspeed]

Jul 18, 2020 17:21:26 GMT biturbo228 said:

Is the k1000 the BMW triple one? I know the K75 was a triple so should have a bank of 3 ITBs.

I forgot about the K75 - set on ebay at present £26 buy it now - so a couple of those could well do the job.

[yoeddynz]

Jul 18, 2020 16:23:01 GMT Darkspeed said:

That looks great - what better encouragement could you have.

Probably covering ground you have already been over - for ITB's keep an eye out for the BMW K1000 ones - they will fit the bill perfectly.


So the engine does have a drop gear like the K1000 to a clutch pack that will drive the right direction for an Imp style box - So if you could drive off of the clutch pack it would "just" be an adapter plate like the K1000. What does it look like if you turn the Subaru box upside down and coupled it to the clutch pack?

Yeah it does have a drop gear but its inside that large casing I've removed. Using those gears in a way that maintains strength (support for the gear etc) would mean keeping that casing and make the engine too long. Also extra weight too because the drop gear needs support. It would also lift the engine up very high and leave sod all room for Inlet system. Apart from all that I also wanted to keep it looking neatly tucked forwards and have loads of room behind it. Also- apart from the fact you'd be putting 115lbft through an Imp box and drive shafts I also think the ratios in the imp box are wrong for this engine. It looks like the Subaru box is going to work well and it has well suited ratios

Great idea on the k1000 / k75 itbs. I'll have another look at them. However - the spacing between the ports on this engine are quite wide so ITBs need to be separate units that I can space.

I have around 135mm above the heads inlet manifold surface to the current fold down lip that's there for my access hatch. Remove that and there's more room. Or have itbs on slight elbows and create more space.

I have not ruled out building a plenum chamber in a similar fashion to the Vivas V6 item, with a single TB and a remote filter/cold air feed.

But ITBs are soooo much better sounding! They would still need good filters and ideally a cold air feed though.

[vitesseefi]

Well..... and here am I stressing about how to knife and fork an MX5 gearbox onto a Triumph 6....... Minor problems.....

I shall follow this with great interest.

BTW, the BMW K series TBs are separates joined by a pair of bars. Hard to narrow but easier to stretch. If you want to know their native spacing I can measure it for you as I have 6 joined in a row...... and some extras. IIRC the K750 ones are smaller (32mm?) than the the 4 pot ones which are 34mm. Note that they do not include injector pockets.

Nick

[Darkspeed]

The induction height/space is the issue with the K1000 installations - the solution that they have with the Imp oil filler elbows is novel but not something I could live with. Keeping the engine flat and low - absolutely

The Imp box can take a fair bit of punishment and as for driveshafts - there are always options without going as daft as these ones....



.....the G15S used the full VW set up through the IMP rear cross member







Keeping it all short and low is the right way to go and I'm looking forward to the engineering to follow

K75 ITB's

[yoeddynz]

Cool- so 32mm k75 items would well suit my 25mm inlet tracts. I would have to make some flanges to suit what ever I choose so so I can easily machine in some injector points while I'm there.

I'll remind all that I'm not really doing this for the potential speed. What i really care most about is how it looks and sounds. So topping the itbs off with a nice simple large oval filer, one per bank, appeals to me the most. Definitely will want more than just mesh gauze covers on trumpets. As cool as the look I have noticed how much dust gets sucked into an imp bay!

I'm not fully sure of what driveshafts I'll use- its a fair way down the line. I was planning on using Datsun 180b items because they are well noted for their strength and pretty easy/cheap to come by. I have a pair of subaru driveshafts that fit the outputs as well. They are a CV jointed type. So there's a few options.

[Deleted]

You going to make a new arrangement with the alternator being driven off the cam belt side of the engine ? Electric water pump?

[yoeddynz]

yeah- extend the nose of the crank enough for a pulley and use a Davies Craig pump. When I routed the coolant pipes for the Datsun I kept in mind that one day I might want to fit an electric pump in there so it should be quite easy to plumb in. I even have a beefy wire in the loom that ends where I want a pump.


It was meant to be?....

[Paul Y]

I am very excited by this.

Please continue.

P.

[elfman]

This is a fantastic project cant wait to see and hear the finished car....keep up the great work.
On the subject of Torque v BHP this is a very good explanation.

[brc76]

Side note, I love this community.

Everyone looks at one person's idea, and the result is that everyone tries to help solve the engineering in a positive way.

[darrenh]

Jul 18, 2020 16:32:19 GMT jamesd1972 said:

Jul 18, 2020 15:38:44 GMT horrido said:

Will this make it a Hillda Goldwimp?

Now you’ve started something !

Hillman GoldImp ?

Impwings ?

Goldheart ?

Heart of gold ?


Engine looks completely epic in there BTW. Carry on
James

what about a tenuous honger chamwing ? sounds more like one of those porn name generators

[biturbo228]

Hum 🤔 another last ditch solution if the gearbox doesn't like being spun in reverse. Flip the engine round and attach the flywheel to the belt end so it spins in the right direction. You'd need to get the reverse diff thing for a beetle still, but could be an option 👍

[duggers]

Suggestion for your Hillmong Impold fueling.

Triple throttle bodies from Triumph motorcycles (Daytona, Speed Triple, Sprint)? Early 955i engines started in about 1997ish so usually cheaper and more available than BMW.

[yoeddynz]

Cheers - those triumph ones are often used on the Mazda V6 engines when swapped into other cars. However I think they are in a one piece though assembly? Tricky because spacing wont match the wide spacing between the ports on these heads. I'll check again....

EDIT; yeah it seems that some are one piece and some are separate. But the main cross against using those is the bore size. too big. The large oval bore would not match up, especially as i wont have enough room to lift them and make a merging adaptor plate.

The inlet tracts are 26mm on the GW engine so the BMW k75 32mm items are the closest.

[yoeddynz]

Jul 18, 2020 13:55:48 GMT kiwijohn said:

Jul 17, 2020 23:22:29 GMT yoeddynz said:

Anyway. Here's a nice bike that has no gearbox issues and is great for building up quads. Off to destroy my knees in the sunshine. I'll put up an update this evening when back at my table suffering.

Did you have a white one as well?

A white Fat chance bike? Nah. I have another one, a later '97 that is a pale fern green colour though.

[Darkspeed]

Jul 19, 2020 20:09:27 GMT yoeddynz said:

Cheers - those triumph ones are often used on the Mazda V6 engines when swapped into other cars. However I think they are in a one piece though assembly? Tricky because spacing wont match the wide spacing between the ports on these heads. I'll check again....

595/955i etc. are separate but they are quite large - as you say, used on the Maz' and here on a less than flat 2.7 Honda that is an option in the Strat' if the novelty of drinking fuel for fun and throwing flames from the IDF's wears thin.




The K75 / K1000 ITB are ideal as they are quite small as far as bike throttle bodies go because the engines are relatively low revving and designed for torque in a cruiser application carrying two people and fully loaded with panniers etc. for crossing continents. The 955i ITB's will feed 300BHP and not be particularly progressive on a 1500. I have a set of K1000 ITB's for the G15 as a project on the "road" engine and a mate is using a set on a Long stroke 1200 Imp engine.


Tell you what yoeddynz - finish this - and when the Litton is on the road (one day) you will have to make your way up to Shropshire when visiting the UK and you can give it a thrash and see how the two compare.

Not the clearest but here is the K1000's on the manifold for the 1200 with adapters for the injectors