drake
Part of things
Posts: 43
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79 cities? This is the reason we won’t Holiday in France in the Stag again. We have been to the south Via Lyon and at one time via Grenoble, I know these 2 cities don’t allow old cars but I just risked it. It a shame because driving in France (outside of the very large cities) is so much nicer than driving over here. Great finds in the caves.
Yes, all cities that are belted by the A86 are concerned. Some are over there too. It's called Zone à Faibles Emissions (ZFE) - equivalent of the Low Emissions Zone (LEZ) in London.
But in fact, the controls are pretty random in Paris: for example for the security yellow vest in the glove compartment (required here), the police have very controlled a lot for 6/8 months. Since then, controls are rare. It's the same thing for the control of old vehicles.
And I believe that old vehicles in "Carte grise collection" are not affected by this limit. But in France this is only possible for vehicles aged at least 30 years, my 1976 Marina have a carte grise collection, it could theoretically circulate in Paris. This was not the case for my mom 1992 Renault Clio, which she had to sell to buy a Renault Modus !
To my knowledge Lyon remains quite permissive for old vehicles.
For Grenoble it is another story since this city is managed by a mayor who calls himself "ecologist", which for him is summed up just to ban the car from the main streets. This city is very dangerous considering all the security problems that exist, mainly drug trafficking, all with the blessing of the mayor. It is not uncommon in the south of this city to have frequent aggressions, just like the car arsons that take place every week... it is one of the only cities in France in which I will never go for this reason.
And thank you for your compliment
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Last Edit: Sept 6, 2019 8:23:57 GMT by drake
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vader
Part of things
Posts: 425
Club RR Member Number: 93
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Sept 6, 2019 14:35:22 GMT
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79 cities? This is the reason we won’t Holiday in France in the Stag again. We have been to the south Via Lyon and at one time via Grenoble, I know these 2 cities don’t allow old cars but I just risked it. It a shame because driving in France (outside of the very large cities) is so much nicer than driving over here. Great finds in the caves.
Yes, all cities that are belted by the A86 are concerned. Some are over there too. It's called Zone à Faibles Emissions (ZFE) - equivalent of the Low Emissions Zone (LEZ) in London.
But in fact, the controls are pretty random in Paris: for example for the security yellow vest in the glove compartment (required here), the police have very controlled a lot for 6/8 months. Since then, controls are rare. It's the same thing for the control of old vehicles.
And I believe that old vehicles in "Carte grise collection" are not affected by this limit. But in France this is only possible for vehicles aged at least 30 years, my 1976 Marina have a carte grise collection, it could theoretically circulate in Paris. This was not the case for my mom 1992 Renault Clio, which she had to sell to buy a Renault Modus !
To my knowledge Lyon remains quite permissive for old vehicles.
For Grenoble it is another story since this city is managed by a mayor who calls himself "ecologist", which for him is summed up just to ban the car from the main streets. This city is very dangerous considering all the security problems that exist, mainly drug trafficking, all with the blessing of the mayor. It is not uncommon in the south of this city to have frequent aggressions, just like the car arsons that take place every week... it is one of the only cities in France in which I will never go for this reason.
And thank you for your compliment I tried to apply for some type of sticker for my Stag so I could drive in Lyon and Grenoble, the French website wouldn’t accept my car and said it was too old? Anyway, we love France especially the south but do holiday in Vendee too. Been to the Le Mans classics 5 times too. The French people we’ve met have been very friendly too, I’ve never been to Paris though!
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Triumph Stag Ducati Supersport Shanks’s Pony
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Sept 6, 2019 15:30:19 GMT
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Last time I was in Paris the pool car we had was hit five times in three days, I was SO glad it wasn’t mine!
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drake
Part of things
Posts: 43
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Sept 7, 2019 10:15:05 GMT
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After being in a quarry, let's go back to the surface. In 2018, I came across a derelict house not far from Beauvais, in the Oise (60). This house is called "the house of the syllogomania" "Diogene's House" or "The Porscherie". 21 cars are abandoned here, including 9 Porsche 924s hence the name "porscherie". Counter to the appearances the owner of the place is not dead, he lives a house in Beauvais which is in the same state as this one, with as much waste. The town hall of this village ordered him to clear all his garbage a few years ago, so he preferred to go elsewhere. The most recent traces found are from 2008 (registration of the BMW E21 - which has already passed previously). #1 1965 Renault Estafette, very popular in France as the Citroen HY, which was its direct competitor and it has been produced more (533209 Estafette - 473289 HY). This one is a model become rare, it is a recognizable Mk1 with its rear red lights. #2 German Porsche 924, unique car burned here, it is registered in Germany. It has obviously not been burned here, there are no traces of fire ... #3 Porsche 924, without a license plate or any means of identifying it. Many Porsches of this place do not have any, which suggests some "switches" of cartes grises with manufacturer plates that have been fitted to other models. #4 Porsche 924, very beautiful in her red dress, retractable headlights blocked in open position! No way to identify it either. #5 1987 Porsche 924 S re-registered in 1999. It's a rare "S" among the last produced. She came from Nord (59) to die here, I am unable access in rear because many brambles... as in many abandoned places, and even worse in summer. #6 1979 BMW 320i E21 re-registered in 2008. Probably the last arrival here. Since my photos the rear lights, the windows, the front lights and the interior were gone. #7 Porsche 924, no way to identify it either. Note the "A" disk present on the rear window, in France this indicates "Apprenti" and must be fitted on the vehicle for 3 years after the date of obtaining the driving license. I think it's the equivalent of the L (Learner) in UK ? #8 Porsche 924, re-registered in 1993. The registration is however unknown in the French databases, it is probably a Carte Grise switch or registration usurped. #9 1981 Porsche 924, re-registered in 2002. It is in a beautiful blue and is probably the most complete of this place. Unfortunately since my pictures parts have disappeared, like the rear lights. At this point, we enter the yard where other vehicles are present, but also many objects! I did not think about taking pictures of the Pontiac Trans Sport ... #10 1988 Peugeot 205, re registered in 1989. Initially I thought of a GTI, but it is actually a 1.4, I had to remove a lot of objects on the roof to make a photo presentable ... Here are two next cars ... #11 1978 Mercedes 280CE W123, re registered in 2005. It is a LPG, the pump was present in the trunk and a specific plate in the engine compartment, too bad because it is a 280CE, it becomes rare to find all that it has only 180110km. #12 1986 Talbot Samba Cabriolet, re registered in 1991. Unfortunately it is dead : the "cabriolet hood" being torn, water has completely infiltrated the chassis which has gradually damaged. A shame given the rarity of the model, with its vintage wood steering wheel ! Of the 270555 models produced, only 13062 were cabriolets. #13 1986 Renault Espace, it's a diesel with J8S 88ch engine, very robust and very reliable. As proof, this Renault Espace has 502753km before abandoned in 2004.
#14 1974 BMW 2002 E10, re registered in 1990. Probably the most regrettable... Since then, she has lost almost all the parts still savable: so they no longer have its headlights, its grille and some other small part.
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#15 BMW E30 Cabriolet, not is there any way to identify it. Same problems as for the Talbot Samba Cabriolet, same causes, and it will know the same fate end.
#16 1983 Volkswagen Golf, re registered in 1999. The registration is not identifiable, so I can not know if it's a real GTI, or a base model that has been transformed into GTI, someone could confirm it?
#17 1987 Renault Trafic, re registered in 1992. Unfortunately, the vegetation is so important that it is inaccessible.
#18 Italian Porsche 924, it is the only one among the others to be in the inner courtyard. The registration on one of the windows is Italian, which explains the lack of plates.
#19 1984 Mercedes-Benz TN 309D, re registered in 1998. Much rarer in France than the 307D and 308D, he has only 291045km... too bad because these small trucks are indestructible ! Later, I also think to buy one for traveling with my girlfriend and our two cats. It will have to be converted into a "motorhome" ... which will not be easy !
#20 BMW 2002 E10 re registered in 1998. It is partly dismantled, it is probably an abandoned restoration... but the strangest thing is that it blocks the front door that gives access to the courtyard from the street!
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Last Edit: Sept 8, 2019 12:18:47 GMT by drake
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Sept 7, 2019 19:15:49 GMT
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Quite a collection! Here in the UK, those German cars would probably all get either rescued or cannibalised for parts, within weeks of them being left.
The Espace did well to make it to over 500,000 km - over 300,000 miles. Of course, the body won't rust, at least! A friend's dad had one new in the same colour, back in the late 1980s.
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drake
Part of things
Posts: 43
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Sept 7, 2019 20:04:16 GMT
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Thanks It's the highest mileage I've seen on a wreck, but a friend has already found 996000km on a Mercedes W123 wreckage that scrapped... pity, she was almost in the milion ! On french forums boards I had many requests to know where were these wrecks, there is a very lucrative market of oldtimers that has developed here since 2010. These car wrecks had no value when they were abandoned, now they are very expensive even in this lamentable state.
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foe
Part of things
Posts: 127
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Sept 8, 2019 20:55:38 GMT
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Thanks It's the highest mileage I've seen on a wreck, but a friend has already found 996000km on a Mercedes W123 wreckage that scrapped... pity, she was almost in the milion ! On french forums boards I had many requests to know where were these wrecks, there is a very lucrative market of oldtimers that has developed here since 2010. These car wrecks had no value when they were abandoned, now they are very expensive even in this lamentable state. Some of the best pictures of abandoned vehicles I've seen. Nice work! My sister lives in Brittany, and there are so many sheds, barns and garages filled with old cars. Keep the pictures coming!!
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gte86
Part of things
Posts: 611
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Sept 8, 2019 22:52:35 GMT
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drake your pictures are amazing. You are inspiring me to go a bit urbex and see what's about locally
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drake
Part of things
Posts: 43
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Some of the best pictures of abandoned vehicles I've seen. Nice work! My sister lives in Brittany, and there are so many sheds, barns and garages filled with old cars. Keep the pictures coming!! Brittany is the region that has the least wreckage of abandoned cars, with Alsace. There was a big clean-up campaign in 2005-2008, few car wrecks still exist today.
The only one I found during my stay in Saint-Malo and Rothéneuf (35) in February 2009 is a 1987 Fiat Uno 45 ...
In other regions there are many, especially Rhône-Alpes, Midi-Pyrénées, Provence-Alpes-Côte-d'Azur (PACA), and finally Corsica. Corsica is probably the region where there is the most: when I was go here in 1999, I remember going down the D81 from Calvi to Ajaccio, to pass the time I counted the wrecks of cars in the ravines ... I had counted forty ! Unfortunately, I have never had the opportunity to return since. I really would have to go again ... but for 20 years, many car wrecks have disappeared unfortunately. Some estimates indicated 3000 car wrecks all over Corsica, now it must remain I think about 2000 to 2500.
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drake
Part of things
Posts: 43
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drake your pictures are amazing. You are inspiring me to go a bit urbex and see what's about locally Many thanks
Don't hesitate. I know 22 abandoned places in England with car wrecks, which I intend to visit soon ... alas, one of them is no longer accessible because of the sale of the land and wrecks are gone.
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paul99
Part of things
Posts: 410
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Quite a collection! Here in the UK, those German cars would probably all get either rescued or cannibalised for parts, within weeks of them being left. The Espace did well to make it to over 500,000 km - over 300,000 miles. Of course, the body won't rust, at least! A friend's dad had one new in the same colour, back in the late 1980s. Seems odd o me that a 205 gets the barn, while porsches, mercs and all are left to rot in the fields
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Last Edit: Sept 9, 2019 8:22:01 GMT by paul99
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drake
Part of things
Posts: 43
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Seems odd o me that a 205 gets the barn, while porsches, mercs and all are left to rot in the fields
If you want the Peugeot 205, you should look in underground quarries ! For example this one in another quarry I visited, not far from the quarry of 31 car wrecks that I posted previously.
I always wondered if it was not a GTI: it is red, and it had extensions on the front wings (we see the holes), it's a Mk2. Unfortunately, there is no way to identify it ...
This quarry is the one with most abandoned vehicles: there are 34 car wrecks ! Many modern cars since there are 5 Peugeot 306, 4 Peugeot 205, 4 Renault Clio Mk1 ... in May 2014, many cars were burned by idiots who do not realize the danger of doing so. Many cars arrived here in 2010 and 2011, two in 2014 and one in 2016. They are all reported as stolen !
I have not been back since July 2016. I wanted to go in April 2018 with my girlfriend, but unfortunately we felt a foreign presence which was confirmed after. We preferred to leave.
11 cars are also abandoned in the external surroundings, of which these two:
The Renault Twingo was not here when my first passage in february 2015, but it was here when the second time I visited in september.
Others pictures coming soon ...
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Sept 9, 2019 12:56:01 GMT
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^^Intriguing....feel free to let us know more about the 'foreign presence'.
The wheels on the burned red 205 look likes steels so probably not a GTI.
Thanks for sharing all these pics - I remember the highlight of family holidays in France being that every single garage seemed to have lots of 1960s, 70s and early 80s cars lying around it often they were all French cars and vans that were a fairly rare sight in England.
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drake
Part of things
Posts: 43
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Sept 9, 2019 14:25:01 GMT
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^^Intriguing....feel free to let us know more about the 'foreign presence'. The wheels on the burned red 205 look likes steels so probably not a GTI. Thanks for sharing all these pics - I remember the highlight of family holidays in France being that every single garage seemed to have lots of 1960s, 70s and early 80s cars lying around it often they were all French cars and vans that were a fairly rare sight in England.
We heard people who were visibly lost and they asked if there was anyone, call help probably. In quarries, you never know who or what you can find, that's why I never go alone, I always go with friends in groups ranging from 2 to 6. I know this quarry very well, but if something happened to me my girlfriend could not find the exit alone, I preferred to avoid taking any unnecessary risk ... anyway, these people were only about 250/300m from the exit they were able to leave without problems becauseI did not hear of a "serious incident" afterwards. I happened to meet other explorers in quarries, it always went well.
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Last Edit: Sept 9, 2019 14:41:26 GMT by drake
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drake
Part of things
Posts: 43
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Sept 10, 2019 13:20:35 GMT
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Another quarry located in Oise (60). She is called "Carrière des Bocaux" (Jars Quarry), because in one of its parts is stored an incredible number of glass jars, can be 50 000 or 100 000 jars, but there is no lid ! It is 5km from the nearest town, and nearby is a tire manufacturing plant, maybe at the time it was a factory manufacturing glass objects. In this one is the biggest wreck that I could see in a quarry. What a MMMMMMMMassive truck. It is a very rare 1966/1967 Saviem TP170, range "Travaux Publics" released only in two years : in 1968, this model was replaced by the Saviem H32 derived from the MAN 19-215, only the brand changing but the cabin being identical in every way. The grids at the headlights are original, a central grid completed them at the engine but it no longer exists today. He was re-registered in 1974 but unfortunately, impossible to know when he was abandoned. Probably in 1980s. It was abandoned here because it was not possible to get out of this quarry : indeed if you look at the ceiling, the tipper has completely ripped this one. We see that it is parked not even 10m from the exit ... a pity for him. 91207km mileage, which is very little. And the jars themselves ... tons and tons of glass jars, there is at least 30m long. Two cars were set on fire near him, with traces on the ground, and the quarry ceiling, which is black with soot. They were removed well before I arrived here unfortunately, but this truck was not removed certainly due to its size, and the impossibility of taking it out.
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drake
Part of things
Posts: 43
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Sept 10, 2019 13:41:48 GMT
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PS: does anyone live in Norfolk, Nottinghamshire or Lincolnshire here ?
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Last Edit: Sept 10, 2019 13:42:09 GMT by drake
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Sept 10, 2019 15:05:42 GMT
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You would have thought they could have used some common sense, and reduced the tyre pressures on one side to lower it enough to clear the ceiling!
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drake
Part of things
Posts: 43
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Sept 10, 2019 15:22:59 GMT
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You would have thought they could have used some common sense, and reduced the tyre pressures on one side to lower it enough to clear the ceiling!
Obviously they have not thought since the tires are still well inflated, but I do not explain why the rear-left wheel is absent ... and no way to find it on the spot !
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Sept 10, 2019 16:13:29 GMT
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PS: does anyone live in Norfolk, Nottinghamshire or Lincolnshire here ? I'm North East Lincolnshire?
Nice pictures, its a shame everything is so far gone with rust
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Sept 10, 2019 16:37:34 GMT
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so is it just wreck spotters and pyromaniacs that go hunting in these quarries?
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'80 s1 924 turbo..hibernating '80 golf gli cabriolet...doing impression of a skip '97 pug 106 commuter...continuing cheapness making me smile!
firm believer in the k.i.s.s and f.i.s.h principles.
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