1970 Ginetta G15

[Darkspeed]

Sept 2, 2024 21:08:31 GMT blackamoor said:

Looks like I need to stock up on biscuits and dive into the Stratos thread

That, and there is quite a bit on Imp engines in the Flowbench thread if you were looking to make it a fast G15 - Once you have worked your way through and fully digested all these threads you will have gained enough knowledge to be fully aware of what you are getting yourself into....

[blackamoor]

I’m going for strength, reliability and decent, predictable handling before searching for more power. That can come later when everything else is in place and we want to get further up the finishing order.

I’m going to view another G15 tomorrow so fingers crossed it’s a good un

[Darkspeed]

Sept 3, 2024 19:42:55 GMT blackamoor said:

I’m going for strength, reliability and decent, predictable handling before searching for more power. That can come later when everything else is in place and we want to get further up the finishing order.

I’m going to view another G15 tomorrow so fingers crossed it’s a good un

Strength

Reliability

Predictable handling


Hmmm - not characteristics that G15's are renowned for


I think bizzo chose the G15 as he was previously rallying an Imp, was fed up chasing rust, liked the look of them. Naively he thought it could be turned into a rally car, was lucky enough to find someone who would work for food and liked a challenge, and had a thick enough skin to accept the abuse that is part and parcel of dealing with said someone.


Lacking all the above attributes you are looking for, they do have one redeeming feature - they can be turned into this in just a few evenings.








Tempted by the offer of Tortilla Chips - Dips - Spicy and non Spicy Pizza - Diet Beverages. A team of 4** can be assembled for the operation of "lifting and separating" ..... Smirk.


There is a meeting of the G15 DS owners club on the 18th and I will let you know how the chassis has faired. What we do know is that it cannot be too cracked or perforated as its not leaking !!

G15 chassis undergoing an oil change





They are fun with a good strong 875 Sport engine - but are made so much better with a top spec 998 - As bizzo discovered when he first took PHX out for a drive - there are 998's and there are 998's

As there is very little difference in the price of a G15 with an 875 and one with a good 998 you are better to buy on a good known engine spec than the condition of the car as the car is the cheap and easy bit to to fix - unless paying someone else to do it - If doing that - stop and buy something else.

**ETA - Only takes two people to lift a G15 Body

[blackamoor]

Well, the first car in my quest (the white one on Car and Classic)- that I went to see this afternoon down in Newcastle turned out to be a bit of a pup and not at all as described. Loving restored meant its had a chassis replacement and thats about it.
It wouldn't start or run, the brakes were stuck on (some job to push it back into the garage), the paint and body work was shocking, chrome work rusted and pitted, interior almost non existent, steering UJ seized solid, gear linkage worn to the point you couldn't get a gear and the cooling pipes were all B&Q grey push fit. I suspect the chassis isn't the best either as the photos provided showed it being rebuilt on pallets and blocks of wood in a farm shed. That said it was very original (even down to the non functioning dynamo- which is poinless because the wiring was a nest of tape, twisted ends and chocky blocks)

And yet I still took a shine to it. I have made a cheeky offer but I suspect its the 500 mile round trip to Norfolk at the weekend to see XPD.

[ovimor]

Ahh... Canna whack a bit 'fire pump' action 😉

Unrepentant IMPnutter, me 🔧⚙️


OVIMOR

[Darkspeed]

www.carandclassic.com/l/C1711841


Yes well, early car

No Sunroof - a tick from me - but bizzo thinks its essential for road rallies.





Do like an early small window car - but the chassis needs more work to get right and chances are if someone else has done work on the chassis it will not be correct. Being 55 years old more likely than not

Exactons are nice but generally too wide and rub on the front arches - especially on an early car as the body is lower on the chassis.

Love the block mounted oil pressure gauge - surprised the needle is still attached

Looks like thick wall metric tubing used to repair chassis - worlds worst air filters - manage to restrict airflow whilst letting rocks through ! - Carbs probably leak - hence need for valve on G/F tank outlet. Interesting mounting of the Bog Brush

£8900 - I would want a lot more car and engine for that money

The £20K car in High Wycombe - Comical



Facebook G15

This one rings alarm bells


XPD - Andy Hills car ? The Ford metallic Orange car.

For the life of me I cannot recall what Orange car had the horrible Cottage Classics "race" chassis fitted to it - Same as the one I spent time trying to sort.

[jimi]

Sept 4, 2024 20:20:47 GMT ovimor said:

Ahh... Canna whack a bit 'fire pump' action 😉

Unrepentant IMPnutter, me 🔧⚙️


OVIMOR

The very first jackup rig I worked on offshore (in 1989) had a emergency fire pump and engine package built by Coventry Climax, the rig was built in Redcar shipyard in 1968 so the pump/engine would have been new around 1967/68. Heard it running a few times, quite a machine

[blackamoor]

XPD - Andy Hills car ? The Ford metallic Orange car.

For the life of me I cannot recall what Orange car had the horrible Cottage Classics "race" chassis fitted to it - Same as the one I spent time trying to sort.

XPD is the ex Simon Hulse sprint/ hill climb car that was previously owned by Ginetta MD Martin Phaff. It looks quite tidy in the photos but has a few issues to sort

[bizzo]

Sorry, just catching up... Can't post pictures as away for few days. Ref earlier post, yes PHX runs an 8mm Dural type sump guard (modern equivalent to Dural anyway), plus a 6mm front skid plate between and 3mm underbody guard. Turns it into a sledge which is useful for any ruts - as long as the tyres make occasional contact with the ground then forward motion is maintained! A G15 is really a bit low for a rally car, no doubt why they were raced and hill climbed in period rather than rallied? Doesn't alter that it's great fun to drive and compete in though, would recommend historic rallying to anyone, just be selective over events and avoid the ones with rough special tests.

[blackamoor]

Thanks Mike. No doubt I’ll be asking lots of pesky questions over the next few months.

Big day tomorrow. Off to Preston to look at a possible candidate. Fingers crossed it’s a good starting point.

[blackamoor]

Here we go. Seven hour round trip and she’s home

[bizzo]

More than happy to help regarding historic rallying and G15 preparation. Have been historic road rallying an Imp / G15 for almost 20 years and no need to make a lot of the mistakes I made along the way. Most important thing is a reliable navigator, and remember to keep the nav happy and comfortable at all times with anything they need, best way to a good result is in the left hand seat, going fast is great but pointless if it's in the wrong direction... Where abouts are you in the world?

[blackamoor]

Northumberland and increasingly North Yorkshire

I did a few events 15-20 years back before family, workload etc. but the murky world of the G15 is a grey area for me. I think it has potential to be good fun though

[bizzo]

Oh it will be good fun for sure! I was up for Ilkley Jubilee on Catterick Ranges last weekend, latest round of HRCR Championship. Son was competing, not me, car in bits as per DS earlier posts. That's a good event. If you're ever in the NW (Chester) I'd be more than happy to shine some light into those murky depths... 🤣 Car looks good from the photo, what's the history /specification?

[blackamoor]

The car was ex GOC chairman’s car and was completely rebuilt early 90’s. Ginspeed built the new chassis. Engine was built up around a B1 block with a wills ringed big valve head, R20 cam and a bunch of other nice parts by Hartwells. It looks to have an Imp works style sump on there too. It’s currently on Stromberg 150s but there’s a tidy looking pair of Italian DCOEs in one of the spares boxes. Gearbox was new old stock late model. Lots of parts came from a car that was written off when two weeks old, stripped and stored for decades. 

However Martin became ill some years back and the car ended up in a damp and leaking garage so it’s now going to need pulling apart again and going through.

i just found some pretty cool period belts in one of the boxes. Brand new if a little dusty smelling 

[Darkspeed]

Very early G15 for sale on eBay





Not a particularly economic proposition for restoration, but if you feel the need to have a really early one you do not get much earlier....


ETA

May appear to the seller to have never been crashed but that front has been modified.

[Darkspeed]

Three G15's for sale on eBay this week





They all appear to be a bit on the high side price wise - But that appears to be the norm these days - load the price and settle on somewhere between 60 - 45 % of that number


Back in the real world bizzo has been doing an extreme detail of PHX The only way of getting to all the dirt accumulated during the past couple of years rallying.





The chassis had taken a few knocks, even through a full 3mm thick aluminium main chassis undertray, a 6mm aluminium forward skid plate and an 8mm aluminium gearbox and engine guard. No cracks, tears or bends found in the chassis so the strengthening works appear to be as effective as anticipated.

PHX is now in many boxes and will be having a full rebuild and colour change - As Mr Biz' is not particularly impressed with the POR15 performance the chassis will be getting blasted and protected in the same Epoxy primer / Epoxy Mastic combination as my Litton.

[Darkspeed]

Chassis repair parts were prepared, and during on of our Ginetta group Pizza nights they were welded in. Replacing reinforced chassis parts is a little more involved than just a straight chassis repair.

















Not 100% completed at this stage but that was after a fair bit of work


Works included replacing a main chassis section as it had taken a huge hit by something, and replacement was going to be better than repair. A repair of a section of rear crossmember that had also been dented in, it was more of a cosmetic repair than a structural one, but it looked poor. no more than you might get with careless use of a trolley jack, but whilst doing other works...

A couple of bolts that can be a PITA to fasten were converted to captive studs. In normal use these are only a pain once every quarter century during restorations but with PHX it has been rather more frequent.

There are a few final welds to complete, a bracket to fix and the second turret reinforcement plate to do and that should be it.

[Darkspeed]

Another evening spent grafting away on PHX's chassis. bizzo has promised to provide words and pictures to cover our endeavours to complete the works started previously.

Thanks to v6john for the loan of his tube notcher, made the modifications on the cage a fair bit easier to carry out.

Hopefully that's the major works I have been assisting with done and I can move on to doing my own things - Oh!, hang on I still have that bloody Amica to sort out...

[bizzo]

PHX update - turned out to be a very long evening just 'finishing off'... However after sterling efforts on DS part, the ugly has now largely been removed from the chassis and it's ready for blasting and epoxy priming. Big thanks to DS, plus also to Stratos John for the use of the tube notcher which made life much easier. The major repairs were to address damage to the underside from the rougher rallies I've competed in (will be avoiding these in future, don't want another body off rebuild...). These were strengthening the front suspension turrets where the tops had banana upwards, despite the folded return edge; a cross rail that was at the lower end of the front skid plate had clearly taken some major hits and was cut out and replaced, but it wasn't the only one. The other major change was a re-design of the rear cage legs, to replace the hockey sticks with straight legs and a much improved mounting - as per the latest Safety Devices version (not altogether surprising as DS had a hand in the development of this). The old cage legs only had a single bolt, but worse was that the mounting fouled on the shock absorber bolt and didn't lie flat - there is apparently some history as to why the cages were built like this to suit an earlier G15 version, but it was clearly wrong on on PHX and I'm very pleased it's been corrected. Along with a few tabs, crush tubes and repairing a (hopefully) isolated bit of rot / thin metal in the rear cradle it has all resulted in PHX chassis being restored to health. Few pictures follow, hopefully all self-explanatory.