PD lump (115/130/140)

[mgmrw]

Anyone on here got experience of them?

Looking at a cheap hack for towing. 115bhp Sharan/Alhambra are the same price as 130bhp b5/5.5 Passatt and 140bhp b6 Passat.


The MPV have higher tow ratings, which is going to matter for 30% of our use of it.

(1700kg twin axle caravan)

So they're bulkier and have more aerodynamic benefits. However 115bhp dragging 1700kg is going to be a tug.


Can they be wound up with a map to the same as 130s?


Know the 130 Passat can go to 170bhp and 320-340lb/ft... Which would be much better

[sausage]

Mainly injectors, turbos, IC, map differences, 115 can be mapped to 150+ easily, but i'd still go for a 130 to start with. see if you can find a sharan galaxy alhambra pd 130. PD 150 has best kit on it (but 2002 engines had chocolate cams) and there is a price premium on them.

pd140 will be 2.0 tdi so different engine with it's own unique problems.

You can buy maps for around £50 and leads to flash it yourself for £10. These wont be as good as a rolling road but the they don't cost £££s

[ChasR]

Injectors rarely go on PDs. Turbos can as can the pipework.

What does go are the camshafts irrelevant of age. Buy a PD VAG with the wrong oil in it at your peril. VW specified only VW505.01 (NOT 505.00 as some people will tell you) and Longlife VW507.00. They also don't take kindly to the Longlife service regime. There are many reasons cited for why the camshafts and followers go; VW revised the tappet design at least 3 times throughout the PD's life. Another is that the lobes for the valves are too small for the job; There are 4 large additional lobes to pump to injectors on the camshaft; the injector themselves are an injector/pump combo, aka a Unit Injector. The fallout from the metal can cause the turbo to potentially go.

Yup, I've bought one with a stuffed camshaft and mine was a 2006 105BHP TDI; an engine considered to be 'safe'. The good news is that with a bit of research you can change the camshaft in around a day, especially with a certain part of the procedure changed as the MyTurboDiesel video online outlines.

They are a great engine mind you. With the right care they can go on for ages and ages. The MPG is stellar for what they are.

[mgmrw]

Jul 16, 2018 11:51:17 GMT sausage said:

Mainly injectors, turbos, IC, map differences, 115 can be mapped to 150+ easily, but i'd still go for a 130 to start with. see if you can find a sharan galaxy alhambra pd 130. PD 150 has best kit on it (but 2002 engines had chocolate cams) and there is a price premium on them.

pd140 will be 2.0 tdi so different engine with it's own unique problems.

You can buy maps for around £50 and leads to flash it yourself for £10. These wont be as good as a rolling road but the they don't cost £££s

Cheers useful stuff.

Unless insurance is obscene, I'll be going for the Sharan/Alhambra, towing weight is 2200kg Vs 1800kg. Vans plates weights are 1750kg. So the leway would be good.

Plus fancy sticking MTB inside the Sharan/Alhambra by removing rear row and two of the middle seats. Effectively create a budget tat hauler/miniature dayvan.


There's lots of 115bhp ones, and only about 2x 130s in my beater budget.


Cheeky remap on a budget 115nho, some lowering springs to stiffen things up... Would seem a sensible idea.


130s attract a premium that's not really justifiable on a £1k hauler of curse word

[mgmrw]

Jul 16, 2018 16:16:00 GMT ChasR said:

Injectors rarely go on PDs. Turbos can as can the pipework.

What does go are the camshafts irrelevant of age. Buy a PD VAG with the wrong oil in it at your peril. VW specified only VW505.01 (NOT 505.00 as some people will tell you) and Longlife VW507.00. They also don't take kindly to the Longlife service regime. There are many reasons cited for why the camshafts and followers go; VW revised the tappet design at least 3 times throughout the PD's life. Another is that the lobes for the valves are too small for the job; There are 4 large additional lobes to pump to injectors on the camshaft; the injector themselves are an injector/pump combo, aka a Unit Injector. The fallout from the metal can cause the turbo to potentially go.

Yup, I've bought one with a stuffed camshaft and mine was a 2006 105BHP TDI; an engine considered to be 'safe'. The good news is that with a bit of research you can change the camshaft in around a day, especially with a certain part of the procedure changed as the MyTurboDiesel video online outlines.

They are a great engine mind you. With the right care they can go on for ages and ages. The MPG is stellar for what they are.

Ouch. Heard about the long life issues etc.


Ones I'm looking at are all 150,000 miles or more and 04/05 plate.

It's gonna be a 3rd car and a budget people/dog/bike/caravan hauling heap


Bonus points of it looks reasonable and I can drop it lower.


PD lump seems sensible for workhorse duties

[ChasR]

I know of 200k cars still on their original camshafts to be fair, but they did have reasonable service histories .

But I also know of a few that have succombed to camshaft failure. But it's far from being the end of the world . I'd rather a PD over a common rail, put it that way . And definitely a 2.0 PD (unless it's an 8V with certain things seen to) over the twin cam 2.0 PDs.

[sausage]

Ford galaxy 1.9tdi use same engine and are more plentiful.

[mgmrw]

Jul 16, 2018 20:02:06 GMT sausage said:

Ford galaxy 1.9tdi use same engine and are more plentiful.

Do they have isofix?

Aware that VW stuff does

[duggers]

I've had Pd 150 Golf and currently have '06 Galaxy with a Pd150.
The chocolate cam was actually chocolate lifters which the cam wore through and then was actuating stuff directly! These were replaced with hardened (black top) lifters and then from the factory with harder surfaced lifters. If not dead by now the issue won't rear its head.
The 130 is essentially the same lump with smaller inter-cooler and different mapping.
I've used Blacksmoke maps on both (£45 and loaded using a Galetto lead) and in fact they did a bespoke one on the Galaxy which deleted the utterly pointless EGR activation. Gave good torque and power with no reliability issues. the 130 will go to 160 without issue and obviously extra torque.

The 2.0 litre 16v PD had issue with the (chain driven?) oil pump but there is a conversion to gears apparently.the 1.9 8 valve is just better allround although very slightly less economical.

Sharan/alhambra/galaxy of the same shape (mk1 and Mk1 phase 2) suffer with corrosion at sill front and rear as well as rear beam (its not a beam but don't know what to correctly identify it as )mount area so check there.
On older ones can have electrical gremlins but you appear to be buying at the 'lower' end of the price scale so I guess you'll not worry too much about annoyances you can live without.

They are quite heavy so check control arms, ball joints and drop links all of which are very cheap and easy to change.

Given this Ive had a couple of the 7M chassis (made in Portugal at a joint factory) and they really are a good workhorse.

Older ones don't have isofix but they did an integral child seat-seat (group 1-3) which can be had for about £50 off the bay of evil.

HTH

[mgmrw]

Jul 16, 2018 21:26:28 GMT duggers said:

I've had Pd 150 Golf and currently have '06 Galaxy with a Pd150.
The chocolate cam was actually chocolate lifters which the cam wore through and then was actuating stuff directly! These were replaced with hardened (black top) lifters and then from the factory with harder surfaced lifters. If not dead by now the issue won't rear its head.
The 130 is essentially the same lump with smaller inter-cooler and different mapping.
I've used Blacksmoke maps on both (£45 and loaded using a Galetto lead) and in fact they did a bespoke one on the Galaxy which deleted the utterly pointless EGR activation. Gave good torque and power with no reliability issues. the 130 will go to 160 without issue and obviously extra torque.

The 2.0 litre 16v PD had issue with the (chain driven?) oil pump but there is a conversion to gears apparently.the 1.9 8 valve is just better allround although very slightly less economical.

Sharan/alhambra/galaxy of the same shape (mk1 and Mk1 phase 2) suffer with corrosion at sill front and rear as well as rear beam (its not a beam but don't know what to correctly identify it as )mount area so check there.
On older ones can have electrical gremlins but you appear to be buying at the 'lower' end of the price scale so I guess you'll not worry too much about annoyances you can live without.

They are quite heavy so check control arms, ball joints and drop links all of which are very cheap and easy to change.

Given this Ive had a couple of the 7M chassis (made in Portugal at a joint factory) and they really are a good workhorse.

Older ones don't have isofix but they did an integral child seat-seat (group 1-3) which can be had for about £50 off the bay of evil.

HTH

Cheers, raft of information.


As you correctly noted, I'm buying in beater territory. So, the odd bulb that pops or electric windows that don't work.... I'll roll with.


It's gonna be an end of life car, tow stuff, move stuff, keep going.

Likewise suspension rattles etc will be tolerated.


The 115bhp one as dog slowas I imagine?

[hkr91]

Jul 16, 2018 21:26:28 GMT duggers said:

The 2.0 litre 16v PD had issue with the (chain driven?) oil pump but there is a conversion to gears apparently.the 1.9 8 valve is just better allround although very slightly less economical.

The early B6 engines were chain driven, I am however unsure if the 1.9 transverse engines continued with the chain drive or whether they too converted to the gear system in roughly 2006...

The 1.9 bkp engine found in the b6 has weak bottom ends and many have had or are in need of replacement engines.

I'd stay away from the B6 in general. The rear calipers use electric motors, the steering column has micro switches, the piezo electric injectors which were subsequently recalled and the notorious oil pump drive are all common failures. I have two BKP B6 Passats and have changed the Lancaster balance shaft for a regenerated one and a solid longer hex key and I'm roughly 200k miles on one and 140k on another...

Saying that the fleet also has 3 x B5.5 Passats. They're all the 130 bhp however two are the 6 speed avf whilst ones a 5 speed awx. If you get one give the shocks and bushes a good going over, check and clear the plenum drain, change the pollen filter seal or seal it more and finally seal the doors (where the regulator hits the door). Miles wise they're on 160k, 115k and 280k.

[ChasR]

Mine was a B6 and I echo hkr91's advice. In short

-Camshaft was shot; despite it being a safe engine.
-EPBs went (£150+ a side with fitting, preferably with VCDS etc.) and mine previoiusly had replacement motors
-I had the dreaded steering lock problem (£150 + fitting and coding via Dealer or someone with dealer software if it’s not te microswitches) and mine was an early car ; this makes it potentially a £1k fix as more modules require replacement due to steering lock communication issues in addition to CCM problems
-Bushes died; it made the car horrendously unsafe; it would 'twitch' from the rear at 50MPH+, and make rear passengers decorate the seats in a lovely shade of brown... I’ve had bushes go on a car but never make a car unsafe to drive. Obviously this brought up ESP errors which was the car clueless as to what was wrong.
-When the gearbox blew up I scrapped the car; I just couldn't bear throwing more cash at that heap of curse word. Speaking to a breaker (Sanburns) he informed me the 5 speeds blowing up wasn't as unknown as people thought.
-host of other electrical issues

Mine was a 2 owner car from a colleague to add insult to injury.

To make matters worse we bought the car off a mate as a stop-gap car.

On the plus side, it did break for spares very quickly. The engine went within days, as did the steering lock. If I had a £1 for everytime I was asked about the EPBs I'd be a very very rich man by now.

It's a shame as they are a great car when working, but a royal pain when not.

In short, if you want a beater a B6 Passat is not the car to do it in. The 2.0s have oil pump issues which can finish off the engine too.

[hkr91]

Jul 17, 2018 6:08:59 GMT ChasR said:

Mine was a B6 and I echo hkr91's advice. In short

-Camshaft was shot; despite it being a safe engine.
-EPBs went and mine previoiusly had replacement motors
-I had the dreaded steering lock problem and mine was an early car ; this makes it potentially a £1k fix as more modules require replacement due to steering lock communication issues in addition to CCM problems
-Bushes died; it made the car horrendously unsafe; it would 'twitch' from the rear at 50MPH+, and make rear passengers decorate the seats in a lovely shade of brown...
-When the gearbox blew up I scrapped the car; I just couldn't bear throwing more cash at that heap of curse word. Speaking to a breaker (Sanburns) he informed me the 5 speeds blowing up wasn't as unknown as people thought.

To make matters worse we bought the car off a mate as a stop-gap car.

On the plus side, it did break for spares very quickly. The engine went within days, as did the steering lock. If I had a £1 for everytime I was asked about the EPBs I'd be a very very rich man by now.

It's a shame as they are a great car when working, but a royal pain when not.

Was yours a 1.9 B6? I initially thought they were all six speed. The rear bushes are a common issue, usually causes uneven wear on the rear tyres as a start. Regarding the EPB, I never use mine anymore.

OP, check the passat forums such as ukpassats and on Facebook.

[mercedeslimos]

These damn things are my bread and butter (both fortunately and unfortunately). Had probably twenty plus of them. I’ve had my B6 1.9 for 7 years, love it. Nothing is too complicated or hard or expensive to fix really. Any questions don’t be afraid to ask me.

[mercedeslimos]

Oh and the Alhambra is a good call. Relation has a taxi of one, 2004 115BHP one, and has over a half million on it. All things up graded with fail proof items. EGR deleted, solid clutch and flywheel conversion. Hasn’t ever broken down, and worked hard every day for ten years.

[mgmrw]

Jul 17, 2018 17:42:39 GMT mercedeslimos said:

Oh and the Alhambra is a good call. Relation has a taxi of one, 2004 115BHP one, and has over a half million on it. All things up graded with fail proof items. EGR deleted, solid clutch and flywheel conversion. Hasn’t ever broken down, and worked hard every day for ten years.

I quite like them and the Sharan. My thinking is;

02-05 plate one, 115. Then EGR blank and black smoke map. Probably air filter and cat out.

Cheap coilovers would be a plus... Get it firmer, so it didn't sag when loaded

[mgmrw]

Jul 17, 2018 17:38:48 GMT mercedeslimos said:

These damn things are my bread and butter (both fortunately and unfortunately). Had probably twenty plus of them. I’ve had my B6 1.9 for 7 years, love it. Nothing is too complicated or hard or expensive to fix really. Any questions don’t be afraid to ask me.

Appreciate your help. I'm researched up, now just need to sell the classic car to release funds

[mgmrw]

Jul 17, 2018 16:26:09 GMT hkr91 said:

Jul 17, 2018 6:08:59 GMT ChasR said:

It's a shame as they are a great ca
OP, check the passat forums such as ukpassats and on Facebook.

Cheers, joined a few pages. Info on passats was how I went down the MPV route

[mercedeslimos]

Jul 17, 2018 17:55:49 GMT mgmrw said:

Jul 17, 2018 17:42:39 GMT mercedeslimos said:

Oh and the Alhambra is a good call. Relation has a taxi of one, 2004 115BHP one, and has over a half million on it. All things up graded with fail proof items. EGR deleted, solid clutch and flywheel conversion. Hasn’t ever broken down, and worked hard every day for ten years.

I quite like them and the Sharan. My thinking is;

02-05 plate one, 115. Then EGR blank and black smoke map. Probably air filter and cat out.

Cheap coilovers would be a plus... Get it firmer, so it didn't sag when loaded

Only mechanical difference to the 130 and 150 engines is the turbo, If you were creative far as know they are bolt on (GT17 rather than GT15). Maybe bigger injectors. They are able for big power. You’ll “enjoy” the ride on cheap coilovers  

Honda S2000 Air filter (ADH22236 from Blueprint) is the only way to go as you’ll ruin the MAF with an oiled cone, Paper cone sounds great. Decat and middle box gone and she will sound lovely. EGR blanking plate, clean manifold and valve and map it out. Done.

[mgmrw]

Jul 17, 2018 20:15:08 GMT mercedeslimos said:

Jul 17, 2018 17:55:49 GMT mgmrw said:

I quite like them and the Sharan. My thinking is;

02-05 plate one, 115. Then EGR blank and black smoke map. Probably air filter and cat out.

Cheap coilovers would be a plus... Get it firmer, so it didn't sag when loaded

Only mechanical difference to the 130 and 150 engines is the turbo, If you were creative far as know they are bolt on (GT17 rather than GT15). Maybe bigger injectors. They are able for big power. You’ll “enjoy” the ride on cheap coilovers  

Honda S2000 Air filter (ADH22236 from Blueprint) is the only way to go as you’ll ruin the MAF with an oiled cone, Paper cone sounds great. Decat and middle box gone and she will sound lovely. EGR blanking plate, clean manifold and valve and map it out. Done.

If possible I'd find a 130. The galaxies are mostly 130, but I'm loathed to have another Ford.


Assume cheapie coilovers are concrete hard?