|
|
Sept 17, 2018 19:24:28 GMT
|
I am restoring as best as i can !! a 1987 mini advantage. There is rust in lots of places, but its either getting cut out, or in teh case of the inner wings treated.
Now, if you look at this pic
You can see where ive used a strip and clean wheel on the metal to clean it up, but there is still rust! I'm not a fan of these rust treatment gels, but is that me being funny? Plan when its all stripped back, it to hp body 2k epoxy prime it. If i just clean it back now i take it the rust will jsut come back threw?
What to do???
thanks
|
|
|
|
|
GJUK
Part of things
Posts: 238
|
|
Sept 17, 2018 19:40:49 GMT
|
Would not take long to make a shape to fit that, then mig it in. IMHO If the cars worth saving do it properly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sept 17, 2018 19:46:38 GMT
|
ah no, i don't mean behind the shock mount, i mean the spots of rust on teh inner wing in general. Shock mount part will get cut out for sure
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sept 17, 2018 19:48:42 GMT
|
I am restoring as best as i can !! a 1987 mini advantage. There is rust in lots of places, but its either getting cut out, or in teh case of the inner wings treated. Now, if you look at this pic You can see where ive used a strip and clean wheel on the metal to clean it up, but there is still rust! I'm not a fan of these rust treatment gels, but is that me being funny? Plan when its all stripped back, it to hp body 2k epoxy prime it. If i just clean it back now i take it the rust will jsut come back threw? What to do??? thanks
I have been restoring vehicles on a professional basis for a long time (40 years) so where you cannot or don't have access to a sandblaster - you can go over the areas that are still pitted with rust with a rotary wire wheel - either in a drill or a angle grinder (the dense / hard wire knot wheels don't really work that well on thinner steels - you need a fine wire wheel) then treat with this prior to priming: www.bilthamber.com/hydrate-80It's never failed me
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sept 17, 2018 20:00:52 GMT
|
right ok! i do actually have some of that but not really used it, ill do the inner wing in it and then epoxy prime it! thanks!
|
|
|
|
Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
|
|
Sept 17, 2018 20:53:12 GMT
|
Hydrate80 is magic stuff - like the old Jenolite or RustRemedy except it’s so easy to apply and works an absolute treat. I have a 19 year Anerican RV - lacking in rustproofing but plentiful in heavy surface rust. It’s bringing it up a treat. Have used almost half a litre so far - good job I bought a twin pack!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sept 18, 2018 9:45:20 GMT
|
ah no, i don't mean behind the shock mount, i mean the spots of rust on teh inner wing in general. Shock mount part will get cut out for sure Yes, it's just because your flap disc can't get into the lower areas where the spot welds are recessed into the panel - it's held away by the surrounding metal. Same for any badly-pitted areas - they might look a bit shiny, but in the pits it may well be still rusty.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sept 18, 2018 18:10:15 GMT
|
what s the difference between hydrate 80 and the gel? its the gel i have int he garage
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sept 18, 2018 18:54:49 GMT
|
IIRC Hydrate 80 is for stuff you can put in solution in a bucket, the Gel is for stuff you can't.
I used both on my 88 Rocco and found the gel needed a couple of goes on a couple areas but that may down to my prep/impatience.
|
|
Needs a bigger hammer mate.......
|
|
|
|
Sept 18, 2018 19:35:50 GMT
|
Hydrate 80 can be brushed on any surfaces that you can access and is a lot faster acting than the Gel - the Deox gel is for areas that are larger in size / larger radius panels & parts where the Hydrate 80 tends to run off - it's critical for the Hydrate 80 to work that all the areas treated are free from grease, oil & silicone so you may want to go over them with a degreaser first - I stock both the 80 & the gel but rarely use the gel - 80 is my go to product in the majority of situations
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sept 18, 2018 19:40:59 GMT
|
thanks just bought the 80 from ebay now... cant wait to try it!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sept 19, 2018 7:56:29 GMT
|
Gel is used to remove rust, its eats it away and then is washed off with water.
Hydrate 80 treats rust and changes it to an inert form. Only really to be used on areas that cannot be replaced and after as much of the surface rust has been removed.
The only thing to be wary of with only using a wire brush is that if the panel is covered in greasy underseal it will end up spreading around a thin film of residue on the surface which will stop the hydrate 80 working fully. Either wipe it off with thiners or use a strip/clean poly disc over the area. The poly discs do not really eat away the metal like a flap disc or grinding disc so no thinning of the piece, and they give a slightly rough surface which aids things gripping to it later (like blasting does)
|
|
|
|
Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
|
|
Sept 19, 2018 8:25:44 GMT
|
The Hydrate instructions do say to remove as much rust as you can, then wash it (read: remove dust and grease), then apply. Follow them for the best results.
I always decant a small amount into an old pot/dish so as not to risk contaminating the bottle as the last thing you want to do is start it reacting and ruin the rest of it.
|
|
|
|
samta22
Club Retro Rides Member
Stuck in once more...
Posts: 1,276
Club RR Member Number: 32
|
|
Sept 19, 2018 10:32:36 GMT
|
^^^ all good advice. I've recently used it when sorting the underside of my celica. So easy to brush on but as with anything surface prep beforehand is key. More details of what I did in my thread on page 13.
|
|
'37 Austin 7 '56 Austin A35 '58 Austin A35 '65 Triumph Herald 12/50 '69 MGB GT '74 MGB GT V8'73 TA22 Toyota Celica restoration'95 Mercedes SL320 '04 MGTF 135 'Cool Blue' (Mrs' Baby) '05 Land Rover Discovery 3 V8 '67 Abarth 595 (Mrs' runabout) '18 Disco V
|
|
slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
|
|
Sept 19, 2018 16:17:12 GMT
|
The Hydrate 80 is pretty much the same as all the other phosphoric acid based 'converters' the acid can react with the iron oxide and forms a passivated layer protecting the steel beneath. It works well as it can't attack the iron until it's become oxide so doesn't eat away the good metal over time like most other acids would. The problem is you have to make sure you clean as much of the rust off as you can before hand or you just end up passivating the top layer and if the top layer gets broken it will allow oxygen back in to start the reaction off again. It's a bit like painting over it tbh. If you wire wheel first to remove all loose grot generally I find it works well tho. I'm unconvinced the verious branded converters work any better than straight phosphoric however.
|
|
Last Edit: Sept 19, 2018 16:18:34 GMT by slater
|
|
|
|
Sept 20, 2018 19:59:31 GMT
|
As Mantasport said
Hydrate 80 is the rust converter product they sell, for when you removed as much as possible but cant remove everything and the metal is basically sound and doesnt need to be replaced. There is no Gel version of this.
The Gel people are referring to is Deox gel, it also comes in power form to be dissolved to make liquid to leave small parts in. The Deox products are completely different to Hydrate 80. Deox is to actually remove the rust, not convert it. Its slow and not ideal for large areas, but it does remove the rust very well. The best tip for using the Gel is to cover it with cling film to prevent it drying out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sept 21, 2018 21:39:51 GMT
|
right ok, so i should get the deox c for nuts and bolts and small parts too?
the hd 80 is here but i cant work on the car atm!
thanks for the advices
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sept 23, 2018 17:39:05 GMT
|
right ok, so i should get the deox c for nuts and bolts and small parts too? the hd 80 is here but i cant work on the car atm! thanks for the advices Yes. Note, the Deox C gats exhausted when so much rusty has been removed. Therefore to get best value for money get as much rust as possible off by traditional methods such as wire brush or abrasive discs etc, less to do for the Deox means it will last longer. Use it to get the last of the rust off very thoroughly rather than to get the thick off.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sept 23, 2018 17:41:46 GMT
|
right ok, so i should get the deox c for nuts and bolts and small parts too? Get some citric acid off eBay would be my advice - it's very similar in appearance and operation to Deox C, but much less costly. Dilute the powder into water at 10% concentration, then soak stuff just as you would in Deox C. Citric acid also gets exhausted once it's done a certain amount of work, and you should remove as much rust and grease as you can prior to soaking.
|
|
Last Edit: Sept 23, 2018 17:42:26 GMT by droopsnoot
|
|
|
|
Sept 24, 2018 21:47:26 GMT
|
right ok, so i should get the deox c for nuts and bolts and small parts too? Get some citric acid off eBay would be my advice - it's very similar in appearance and operation to Deox C, but much less costly. Dilute the powder into water at 10% concentration, then soak stuff just as you would in Deox C. Citric acid also gets exhausted once it's done a certain amount of work, and you should remove as much rust and grease as you can prior to soaking. I've been happy with Deox, but I'll be doing exactly what you say and trying the citric acid.
|
|
|
|
|