1951 Pontiac Chieftain

[Morris63]

Love this thread - and another vote for backlighting the grille emblem.

What sort of length is that straight 8? Looks like a fair amount of weight to have dangling on an engine crane, especially if it's still got the g/box attached!

[PhilA]

All cast iron, block and head. And gearbox.

I haven't measured it exactly but I do know that the engine and gearbox assembly together weigh in at 865 lbs (392 kg). The car has a curbside weight of 3300 lbs (1496 kg) so the drivetrain accounts for a significant portion of the vehicle's mass.

Phil

[SmokeEm]

Just read the enite thread from the start. Top work fella. Lovely car.

[jamesd1972]

Jan 24, 2019 13:54:59 GMT PhilA said:

All cast iron, block and head. And gearbox.

I haven't measured it exactly but I do know that the engine and gearbox assembly together weigh in at 865 lbs (392 kg). The car has a curbside weight of 3300 lbs (1496 kg) so the drivetrain accounts for a significant portion of the vehicle's mass.

Phil

Wow that is a heavy old thing !
Going to need a truck sized crane, at least in the USA that’s an easy option.
Thanks for the engine pics.
James

[Frankenhealey]

Jan 24, 2019 13:54:59 GMT PhilA said:

All cast iron, block and head. And gearbox.

I haven't measured it exactly but I do know that the engine and gearbox assembly together weigh in at 865 lbs (392 kg). The car has a curbside weight of 3300 lbs (1496 kg) so the drivetrain accounts for a significant portion of the vehicle's mass.

Phil

If that had been an Austin it would have been 3 main bearing with a crankshaft made from iron filings and cheese

[PhilA]

Even as a five main bearing (plus 5 cam bearing) engine, take it much above 4000 RPM and both the camshaft and crank begin to whip.

If you note in the picture, the crank has no counterweights- straight eight is inherently balanced but once you add the effect of the rods and pistons on it at high speed it's just too long.
Hence why V8's gained rapid popularity once big power (from higher RPM capability) became popular in the late fifties.

This engine is all about smooth torque delivery, which it manages with effortless ease.

Phil

[PhilA]

Jan 24, 2019 14:37:58 GMT jamesd1972 said:

Wow that is a heavy old thing !
Going to need a truck sized crane, at least in the USA that’s an easy option.
Thanks for the engine pics.
James

I'm just going to pick up a 2 ton crane. With the front grille removed the engine has to lift up about 5" to clear the sump on the crossmember, then it just wheels out.

Phil

[51rider]

Another vote for the front emblem light.
Love this thread & the attention to detail.

[PhilA]

Jan 24, 2019 12:59:01 GMT Morris63 said:

Love this thread - and another vote for backlighting the grille emblem.

What sort of length is that straight 8? Looks like a fair amount of weight to have dangling on an engine crane, especially if it's still got the g/box attached!

Just the block, 33 inches (84cm).
Or 2.3 times as long as an Austin A-series engine. Granted, if you were to chop it in two, it's a 2.2 litre engine, but that's more for scale.

Fan to flywheel 42 inches (1m 6cm).


Fan to tailshaft, not a clue!

Phil

[PhilA]

Been on a little hiatus with the car recently. Jacked it up tonight to take a look up underneath if I can get to the bolts that hold that U shaped section in- no. I'm going to have to remove the ventilation ducting if I want to be able to get to it. Silly design.

Phil

[peteh1969]

Phil

Tobe honest they designed cars in a much more sensible way back then in the UK and US and if it's there it's there for a reason yes there is a lot of over engineering designed in but compared to modern design where everything is crammed in to the smallest area and you cannot do anything without plugging a computer in it to see if anything is working they are practical to work on.

They would be boring if there was nothing to do to them.

[PhilA]

To be fair I'm still learning about this car, but some parts of the design are definitely there to aid rapid manufacture, not so much disassembly after the fact. I guess labor was a cheaper commodity back in the day.
For instance, the service manual states to remove the lower radiator apron. I don't see how and neither did the previous owner because it's been cut open and peeled back to provide access (to quite what I'm unsure, you can get at everything the holes give access to from the top, as far as I can see).

It's not a complicated car though. You can see how well car design has come on in terms of metalwork, even thirty years on by the eighties, with pressed box section legs and crumple zones and such. This car gains most it's strength from the chassis, which is U section. It's also not what I would call exceptionally rigid when it comes to chassis torsion, either.
All part of the charm

Phil

[PhilA]

Removed the driver's side wheel to take a better look up underneath. I think I may be able to get to the bolts that hold the front strengthening panel in.


Noticed this wonderful addendum- brake flexi held back by zipties attached to the fuel line. Even so, it's rubbed through. That's on the to-do list because single circuit brakes...

Phil

[PhilA]

One nice thing, my in-house accountant has cleared me to purchase an engine crane, so I should be able to make some progress finally.

Phil

[Coakers]

Very much enjoying this thread, I love this era of American cars, when cars where designed with soul, both inside and out and not limited by government interventions etc, from the mid 70's onwards It just went into a bit of a dark age in terms of style and design (80's and 90's being the low point) I guess that's I why I have a lot of admiration for guys like you keeping these cars on the road. Look forward to see how she progresses.

[PhilA]

Looking at that picture, I think the wheel is going back on, I'll push the thing outside, jack it up, wheel off and have a jolly good go at it with the pressure washer before continuing.

I'm on call this weekend so I'm kinda limited on going places but Harbor Freight have a moderately good 2 ton crane (67" reach and capable of lifting 900 lbs on max extension).
I may sneak off to get if they have it in stock. It folds up also, which is a nice feature. My old crane used to fold up neatly.

Phil

[jjeffries]

Don't forget your 20% off H-F coupon. John

[PhilA]

I got a thing in the mail with that on. Good call.

Phil


*Edit: I didn't see it first time round on the page!

[craigrk]

Phil,

Loving this. I really need to take the same approach with my Aerosedan. It also needs a rewire, but I really don't want the pull the whole car to bits.

Keep up the good work!!

Craig

[PhilA]

Pushed the car out of the garage, jacked it up and pulled the driver's side wheel off for access.


Much cleaner than it was. That also took some of the old underseal off.


Pushed it back in after cleaning the garage floor, wiped it down and set the big drum fan on it to dry it off.


This was the point my pressure washer quit running. Spent 40 minutes pulling the tank, carburetor and petcock apart to clean it all out before getting it going again and cleaning up.

Going to see if I can get the front grille and such off tomorrow. The wheel is all mashed up where some moron was tightening one stud so much it sheared- backwards threads on old GM stuff.

Phil