74 Country Squire, 1970 Rover P6B & 1971 Stag

[wildrover]

I mentioned earlier in this thread that I wanted to get a personal plate for the wagon. I kind of like the notion of 46O WGN - a reference to the 460 CI engine and the wagon body but, there is a problem

The number zero is not available on personalized plates - I mean it is on a regular license plate as at least one of my cars has a zero but, for reasons unknown to mere mortals not for private plates; however, the letter "O" is but here's the problem... the California vehicle code prohibits using a letter to represent a number or vice versa - and - when you apply for the plate you must be able to explain the meaning to the DMV's satisfaction.

To give you an idea of what a bunch of pedants they can be I recently applied for "NW4" as a plate for my daily - I explained that NW4 is the post code (translated it to ZIP code for them) for Hendon, north London where I was born. It passed muster in the online application and they charged my card the $50. After waiting about 12 weeks I got a letter saying that they would not approve my plate as some anonymous moron felt that I was trying to use a letter to represent a number or a number to represent a letter or something equally vague. The letter came with a phone number that I could call if I had questions - after two hours on hold - yep two hours, I had the bit between my teeth at this point - I spoke to a very nice lady who told me there was nothing she could tell me. The department responsible for the denial don't have a number that is listed, even within the DMV - probably cause they're a bunch of ****s. To add insult to injury it took another 4 weeks to get my refund.

Anyway - I regale you with this tale of woe as I need some suggestions - can anyone come up with a plausible explanation for 46O WGN? Answers on a post card please.

[maf260]

Mar 23, 2022 6:06:03 GMT wildrover said:

I mentioned earlier in this thread that I wanted to get a personal plate for the wagon. I kind of like the notion of 46O WGN - a reference to the 460 CI engine and the wagon body but, there is a problem

The number zero is not available on personalized plates - I mean it is on a regular license plate as at least one of my cars has a zero but, for reasons unknown to mere mortals not for private plates; however, the letter "O" is but here's the problem... the California vehicle code prohibits using a letter to represent a number or vice versa - and - when you apply for the plate you must be able to explain the meaning to the DMV's satisfaction.

To give you an idea of what a bunch of pedants they can be I recently applied for "NW4" as a plate for my daily - I explained that NW4 is the post code (translated it to ZIP code for them) for Hendon, north London where I was born. It passed muster in the online application and they charged my card the $50. After waiting about 12 weeks I got a letter saying that they would not approve my plate as some anonymous moron felt that I was trying to use a letter to represent a number or a number to represent a letter or something equally vague. The letter came with a phone number that I could call if I had questions - after two hours on hold - yep two hours, I had the bit between my teeth at this point - I spoke to a very nice lady who told me there was nothing she could tell me. The department responsible for the denial don't have a number that is listed, even within the DMV - probably cause they're a bunch of ****s. To add insult to injury it took another 4 weeks to get my refund.

Anyway - I regale you with this tale of woe as I need some suggestions - can anyone come up with a plausible explanation for 46O WGN? Answers on a post card please.

I'd guess that somebody saw your NW4 as NWA. If you know what that's an acronym for then you'll also know why they refused it.

Could you claim the O is the symbol for degrees and make something plausible from that...?

[mrbounce]

How about that the "46" and "WGN" relates to a 1946 wagon a relative had and the "O" was due to it being orange, or owned by an Irishman and known as the O'Wagon? (Bit silly but all I can think of...)

Or why not advise that it's a replica of a 460CI Wagon a relative had? They might go for it... 

46-0-0 is a type of fertiliser but I am really struggling to come up with something positive for that!! 

[The Rascal King]

When you were cleaning the car after purchasing it, you found 46 cheerios under the passenger seat. Ever since, it's been known as the 46 'O' wagon.

[75swb]

Rule 46 of the internet is: they will not bring Snacks. This probably doesnt help.

Rule 46 of the supreme court is "dismissing cases". Claim its a legal reference?
"46 outright. winner get nothing."

[wildrover]

Mar 23, 2022 10:06:09 GMT maf260 said:

I'd guess that somebody saw your NW4 as NWA. If you know what that's an acronym for then you'll also know why they refused it.

Could you claim the O is the symbol for degrees and make something plausible from that...?

That thought had indeed crossed my mind - and as I'm not that far from Compton I suppose there *may* have been a rational basis for the DMV bot making that leap... however, with that said if you Google "NW4" you get page after page of information about Hendon.  I suppose I could be a dedicated NWA aficionado making a determined and devious effort to obtain the plate of my dreams... it seems like the slightest effort on the behalf of the jobsworth could have established my intent.

I fear that if I told them the "O" represented degrees they would deny it on the basis of using a letter to represent a number/symbol or some such lame excuse

Mar 23, 2022 11:15:21 GMT mrbounce said:

How about that the "46" and "WGN" relates to a 1946 wagon a relative had and the "O" was due to it being orange, or owned by an Irishman and known as the O'Wagon? (Bit silly but all I can think of...)

Or why not advise that it's a replica of a 460CI Wagon a relative had? They might go for it... 

46-0-0 is a type of fertiliser but I am really struggling to come up with something positive for that!! 

Good efforts - the O"wagon has crossed my mind - 460 CI is what I want to represent but can't due to letter/number thingy

Mar 23, 2022 11:21:59 GMT The Rascal King said:

When you were cleaning the car after purchasing it, you found 46 cheerios under the passenger seat. Ever since, it's been known as the 46 'O' wagon.

Go and stand in the corner and think about what you've done... good effort - keep the creativity flowing

Mar 24, 2022 3:45:23 GMT 75swb said:

Rule 46 of the internet is: they will not bring Snacks. This probably doesnt help.

Rule 46 of the supreme court is "dismissing cases". Claim its a legal reference?
"46 outright. winner get nothing."

Interesting suggestion about the Supreme Court Rule 46... hmmm.  I just don't know how you get the O WGN explained away.

Thanks for all the suggestions - please do keep all the ideas coming.  I may try and appeal the decision by letter - perhaps I can make a better argument for my hometown rationale - after all, they acknowledge that they want people to be able to express pride in their backgrounds and origins.  I am just wondering if I have enough fire in my belly to go to the effort of drafting a letter that my be summarily ignored.

Please do keep the suggestions coming though - it has to be plausible enough to withstand scrutiny and also something that can't be disproved by a quick Google search.  For example, I had thought of saying that 46 was the manufacturer's engine code OW referred to a 4 door wagon and GN the color code - all of which can be disproved in a heartbeat.

Cheers mateys

[Duggy]

If you can't have numbers masquerading as letters couldn't you just have 74 WGON instead?

Sounds like they're even more anal over such things there as they are here!

[maf260]

Mar 24, 2022 5:49:23 GMT wildrover said:

Mar 23, 2022 10:06:09 GMT maf260 said:

I'd guess that somebody saw your NW4 as NWA. If you know what that's an acronym for then you'll also know why they refused it.

Could you claim the O is the symbol for degrees and make something plausible from that...?

That thought had indeed crossed my mind - and as I'm not that far from Compton I suppose there *may* have been a rational basis for the DMV bot making that leap... however, with that said if you Google "NW4" you get page after page of information about Hendon.  I suppose I could be a dedicated NWA aficionado making a determined and devious effort to obtain the plate of my dreams... it seems like the slightest effort on the behalf of the jobsworth could have established my intent.

I fear that if I told them the "O" represented degrees they would deny it on the basis of using a letter to represent a number/symbol or some such lame excuse

It's far easier for them to jump to conclusions than to Google anything about a strange and faraway land! Straight outta' Hendon?

[grizz]

I should put you in touch with my buddy JB Math over in Oklahoma who loves a personal plate, and has some very interesting plates.

On his Godzilla powered Cobra it is MPG LOL

[wildrover]

In the spirit of trying to keep the thread flowing here is a brief update.

One of the problems with the wagon when I got it was that you couldn't fill the gas tank or it would leak when cornering. The issue wasn't with the tank as that had a NOS replacement just before I bought it. The problem lay with the rubber grommet/seal/thingy where the filler neck enters the tanks.

The previous owner told me he had a part number which he provided and I duly bought it... when that didn't fit, I spent hours on Google trying to locate the correct piece. It went something like this... find website that claimed to have correct piece, buy, throw away as not correct. The cost of these various grommets was such that it wasn't worth trying to get a refund when shipping was factored in.

I eventually made contact with Ray at Henry's Parts Depot www.henryspartsdepot.com/. Ray helpfully informed me that the part in question was wagon specific and had been NLA for years... oh good...

I was talking to Sal (the mate that allows me to hide my wagon from prying eyes) - he suggested that we try and make one - Sal runs a machine shop that specializes in aerospace and other precision stuff that stops planes from falling out of the sky; he is also a very talented programmer and machinist - still, it wouldn't be easy. Anyway measurements were taken and that was that. A few days later Sal forwarded a link to a rubber grommet he found that seemed to match the criteria.

I checked the information I got from Sal - it was a gas tank grommet for 63 - 66 Mopar A body cars. At $9 and free shipping it was worth a punt. The part arrived and what do you know? It was a perfect fit. I ended up buying another grommet from Classic Industries - this was $16 but as it is down the road from me I got it same day. The Classic Industries grommet seems to be of better quality as it is an "official" Mopar reproduction part - so this is the one that was installed and it works a treat. I gave the other grommet to Ray at Henry's Parts Depot so he can now begin listing them as available again, not that it's a huge market but, perhaps it'll help someone out there one day.

Not a particularly interesting update but, sometimes it's these small things that hold us back.

When Mopar met Ford...

[wildrover]

Another wagon update!

As mentioned here, the wagon lives at my mate's yard - it has several stable mates such as a '66 Le Mans, a '70 Nova, a '63 Bel Air, and soon a '66 GTO. Sal, needs to be able to move the cars around as and when needed and as most of them have sat for a while it isn't always easy to get them fired up. So a plan was formed.

Sal remembered someone he had used in years gone by - someone he calls an "Uber mechanic"... not so much because of his talent, although he does seem to be very good, more so because he comes to you. Having done some work on the Bel Air which was both reasonably priced and well done we thought we might let him have a stab at the wagon.

The main (known) mechanical problem with the Country Squire was a leaking rear main oil seal. The previous owner had done a ton of work to the car - new brakes and discs, new radiator, new distributor and HT leads, new gas tank, new shocks, etc. but the seal needed replacement. So we decided to let the new guy tackle the job and give it a basic tune up to get it running again.

Also mentioned previously was the problem with the bonnet/hood/head covering of your choice not closing properly since we had replaced one hinge. Prior to getting the mechanic to work on the seal, Sal drove the wagon to a local body shop where men in overalls scratched their chins, drew in their breath and made serious pronouncements about "it's not the parts, it's the labor..." You know the kind of stuff we've all heard at least once in our lives. The explanation being that there was unequal tension on the springs that could only be remedied by practice of the dark art of alchemy and they were they only ones with the required knowledge... which could be had for a reasonable $350 or thereabouts with no tax if paid in cash.

Long story short, what we took from this conversation was that if we got a pair of new or used springs we could solve the problem ourselves   So now the search for an appropriate set of springs began.

Back to the mechanic.  He started work on the rear main seal - unfortunately I wasn't there for any of this so I don't have any pictures - Sal reported back that there were several more leaks found during the course of the work, including one of the transmission seals and the oil pan - the green light was given and the work done in record time.  Additionally a check was performed of all service items under the hood - as noted above, the previous owner had put a new distributor and leads on but, curiously had not changed the plugs - very odd.  The carb was in fairly good shape but a few vacuum leaks were found and sorted.  Timing was set, oil flushed and changed.  But, the icing on the cake was the hood - Sal was looking on the security cameras and noticed the mechanic playing with the hood - when he spoke to him later it seems that he had solved the fitment problem without being asked and without asking for extra money - result! 

The cost for the rear main seal and the tune up, including all parts came in at $475 which I thought was a deal - due to his efforts with the hood and a few extra bits and bobs we bunged him another $150 as we want to keep him happy.  So, a good day all in all.  I've not driven it yet but, Sal tells me it starts right up and runs as smooth as silk - this is impressive coming from Sal as he detests the wagon.

The pictures show the new panel on the front, the much better shut lines of the hood and that those wheels must be cast into the fires of hell replaced.

But wait!  There's more...  While he was out rummaging around a local wrecker's yard the mechanic came across this

And, the front windshield is in good condition.  What are the odds - you just don't see these cars in the scrappies around here any more.  A check of the interchange book shows that the screen from a '77 will fit a '74.  The website says that the price for a screen is $49.

Sal is meeting me there tomorrow morning as I will need his Spanish to get sheet done - there is an auto glass business that is located right next to the yard.  So our mission is to get them to remove the screen for us and to see what other parts might be usefully harvested from the wagon.  Fingers crossed as it is so hard to get bits that are specific to the wagon.  Wish us luck.  More soon, hopefully.

[igor]

Just buy the whole car. You can never have too many spare parts.

[wildrover]

May 23, 2022 5:20:36 GMT igor said:

Just buy the whole car. You can never have too many spare parts.

That is a reasonable suggestion except...

You cannot buy a whole car from a California junkyard, once it's through those automotive pearly gates that's it, it is no more, it ceases to be.  They often have a selection of cars that are for sale but once it's inside it stays.  I am sure, that like most things the problem could be solved with cash but, there is another reason why this is a non-starter... death... mine, at the hands of my missus as I fear that having two secret station wagons would be a bridge too far.  As helpful as my mate is I don't know that I could ask him to hide store another rusty pile of shyte timeless classic away from the all seeing eyes of the wife.

I will trawl through the wagon to see what, if anything can be reasonably salvaged and is worth buying - as it's a '77 there will be some parts cross over but probably not as much as I'd hope for.

[akku]

Erm, that car there in the wreckers is a LTD II. That is an intermediate platform car, derived in a long line from the Fairlane and Torino. I will bet you a ton of exotic butter that this car has absolutely zero parts which will fit your Country Squire.

Same with that hubcap. It is for a 4.5" PCD wheel and from '73 the full size platform stepped up to a 5x5" PCD until the Panthers came along in 1979. I have those exact hubcaps on my '68 but the hubcaps for the '73 - '78 are different both in style and size. I have a set on my '75

Pick A Part is famous for not selling whole cars but having the sort of cars you would want to buy. Dicks. Its company policy not a law. This is oft debated on the internet.

[wildrover]

akku you are 100% correct - I thought there was something about the front end that warranted a check but, I got tunnel vision about the idea of finding a windscreen locally and for cheap; it never even occurred to me that it was an LTD II.

I have checked the parts interchange book again and it isn't really any help - the book is for the '74 model year and while it shows interchangeability through late 70s there is no way to cross-reference from later models back - there is no mention that I can find of the LTD II.

I suppose we could take detailed measurements of my windshield and compare, but even that is a little hit and miss - there could be other variables such as curvature that we couldn't easily measure.

What do you lot think? Is it too much of a gamble? Does anyone here have a '77 Parts Interchange book they can check?

akku Thanks again for your sharp eye and input.

[akku]

I believe (but I am not placing money on) the fact that the '73-'78 FOMOCO fullsize all use the same screen. There is a possibility that the Lincoln Continental / Town Car has its own screen, and maybe the "pillarless sedan hardtop" and the standard "Sedan" has a different screen, in which case I put a beer down that the Country Squire uses the same one as the regular sedan.

Experience with the older full size says Ford and Mercury use the same screens and there are usually 2 per season- so for '74 its Galaxie 500, LTD, Marquis / Grand Marquis sharing screens. At some point Lincoln came to the standardisation party but not 100% sure when.

I know for '65 to '72 the screens go this way:

Screen 1: 2dr sedan, 4dr sedan, wagon
Screen 2: 2dr HT, 4dr ht, convertible, fastroof (if offered)

(with '65-'66, '67-'68, ''69-'70 and '71-'72 being interchangable across years only)

[wildrover]

Lincolns from '63 through '74 have pretty much no cross-compatibility. The Mark Series have some windshields in common with the T-bird.

Like akku said '73 - '78 full size FOMOCO pretty much all share the same screen with a few exceptions for the hard top models - no 2 door HT from '73 - '78 and no 4 door HT from '75 - '78

We spent some time analyzing photos of a '77 LTD II wagon vs. the '74 Country Squire and it does seem that the CS has a flatter screen.

Bearing all of this in mind we opted not to go to the wrecker's yard as it seemed pointless - I am pretty bummed as I was excited at getting a new screen without the need to trade a kidney. Oh well, c'est la vie. The search continues.

To quote akku on Pick-a-part sales policies... "dicks" - this about sums it up. Over the years me and my mates have come across cars we would love to buy - A Mark II Capri in perfect rust-free shape, an Austin America and a convertible Peugeot 403 - we had zero success trying to buy any of these cars.

[PhilA]

All I can suggest is finding a 514ci engine for it.

That would remedy the issue with the plates

[wildrover]

May 24, 2022 12:59:16 GMT PhilA said:

All I can suggest is finding a 514ci engine for it.

That would remedy the issue with the plates

Thanks Phil.  I think I am going to try a different tactic though - I am going to lie   I am going to say that it was the number plate on my first car in England - the worst that can happen is that they say no.

[wildrover]

I think I mentioned earlier in the thread that I had my local trimmer, Alex, redo my dash pad. 

The original was ferked not as good as it could be so I bought a replacement from eBay.  The replacement was a different color and would require a re-color to match - I spent quite a few shillings at my local paint supplier and had them custom match some vinyl paint for me.  In the meantime, because I a) have no common sense b) am impatient c) have a slavish devotion, bordering on insanity, to reusing as many original bits as I can I took the old dash pad to Alex.

Alex was reluctant beyond words delighted at the challenge

Before

After

I will be up with the car next week and will try to get a better picture - at the time it was too exciting to get the dash pad in to worry about photos.  All in all, it cost me about the same to have Alex retrim the dash pad as it did to buy and get the eBay one delivered.  The only difference being that Alex had to put a seam along the edge to get the vinyl to sit right - I think I prefer it that way.