Hillman Avenger Turbo

[jonomisfit]

To get the clamping force you're looking for that bracket will definitely need shape to it to get the stiffness up. Especially if it's mild steel.

A fence at 90 degrees along one or both edges will boost the stiffness a lot.

If you're looking to force the pressure from where the bolts clamped to the manifold, weld a 6mm rod on the back of the bracket that sits in the corner of the casting and it will tip the load forward. You don't need much of a rise to do this.

It also means you should have minimised the bending on the bolt. The longer the pivot height it, the greater the bend load you'll get on the bolt

[lebowski]

Jun 6, 2020 12:23:34 GMT jonomisfit said:

If you're looking to force the pressure from where the bolts clamped to the manifold, weld a 6mm rod on the back of the bracket that sits in the corner of the casting and it will tip the load forward. You don't need much of a rise to do this.

Thanks for the input. I'm not sure what you mean by the bit above. The clamp is as per Stealthstylz' drawing on the previous page.

My thinking behind the non fencing of the plate is that it's only held in by one 5/16 bolt. I'd have thought (and I may be wrong) that the thread would strip in the block before I get significant deformation of the clamp. I didn't measure it but the material I used for the clamp is in the 4mm ish range at a guess.

Nonetheless, I'll have a think about whether to improve it. The car's back together now so access is once again minimal, and I'm reluctant to pull it apart again. Any changes will have to be to the clamp itself for now.

[biturbo228]

Looks like there's plenty of room to drill and tap it to a bigger size 👍

[Norman]

Just read this from the start, great fabrication and welding skills. I will need try harder in future. Keep up the great work and updates. Norman

[lebowski]

Thanks Norman. Glad you like it.

[jonomisfit]

A very dodgy image may help explain what I was thinking

Brackets 3 by jono_misfit, on Flickr

Image 1

what I see happening in the arrangement at the moment is the majority of the force generated by clamping the bolt up, will be effectively lost through the bracket into the casting underneath. The bracket will be clamped hard on its flat face, but it wont be imparting much load onto the manifold. Mainly as the section is slender compared to the length of the span, so it will likely flex, with good movement opportunity around the red arrow points.

Image 2

My suggestion is weld on some rod etc. on the bottom face of the bracket this way the bolt will pull down on the bracket, but it will be stood off by the rod. This will force a reasonable moment onto the bracket and increase the clamping force onto the manifold. To do this thought you will need a vertical fence on one or both sides to up the "beam" strength of the bracket (the purple bit). it will put a bit of a point load on things, but I doubt it'll be significant.

You could likely get most of the effect by welding a washer onto the bottom face of the manifold side of the bracket and thinish strip of steel at the end behind the bolt.


If there's concern about strength of threads etc in the cast iron (or ali) then hellicoils are great. Easy to do with a drill and tap and really improve the pull out strength as the weak material has a lot larger tapped hole bitting into it v's the size of the item that threads in to the helicoil.


Just to echo others, its a great thread. Are you on ASOC as well? I used to have a few avengers / sunbeams and post up there, but having found retrorides I moved over here years ago.

[lebowski]

Thanks Jono for taking the time to draw those images. It is much appreciated.

Your first image is not quite correct.  My setup is as below, so the clamp is actually pivoting from the higher part of the blue block.  I think that the ideal solution is a bigger bolt/stud allowing a higher torque and then adding the fence to increase the clamp stiffness.  Unfortunately I didn't quite drill the hole in the centre of the block, which will limit how large I can go before it gets worryingly thin around the edges of the thread.

I am indeed a member of the ASOC.  Most of this thread is copied over from there, although I tend to write it here first nowadays and then copy it over to there.  The ASOC forum can be a bit quiet and feels a bit like I'm talking to myself.

Do you still have any Sunbeams/Avengers?

[jonomisfit]

Got you, i'd miss seen that.

I've still got a part finsihed avenger (spaceframed, AWD, with engine under the dash) but its been on hold since I got the morris... so about 10 years.

I've also got a sunbeam fitted with a V6 and AWD, but its not done more than been started in the last 8 years.

I sold all the spares and spare shells off ages ago to Big Mal on here.

[lebowski]

Ah yes I've seen your Avenger from your old thread on the asoc forum. It looks very interesting!

[lebowski]

I have been getting the rest of the bodywork sorted on the Avenger so that I can paint the main shell.

My Dad bought a Mirka sander which is excellent, so I've been using it on the roof to prep for paint.  There were 4 spots of damage in a square on the roof, where I can only assume someone had previously had a roofrack fitted.  These needed panelbeating into shape and there were a few other spots which were a bit pitted so they got ground back.

IMG_20200611_181054 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr

The bootlid also has a dent in it which was fillered and cracked.  I ground out the filler and it's a bit of a mess underneath so I'll cut out that section and weld in a new piece.

There was also a small bit of rust above the left rear light which has now been dealt with.  When I removed the lights I also found a patch had been poorly welded in from inside the boot.  You can just about see where in the pic below, about 1/3 of the way up the LH light where there's thick filler.

IMG_20200611_181044 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr

It looked fine from the outside and the filler had held up well but I cut it out to prevent future troubles.

IMG_20200613_144747 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr

First bit welded in.

IMG_20200613_153234 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr

Blurry repair panel made.  I also accidentally made the initial slit in the wrong place as you can see, which didn't help during welding as it wanted to twist.

IMG_20200613_183144 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr

IMG_20200613_191502 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr

I also replaced the flange on the top edge of the boot which the seal pushes onto, as it was rotten (I'm really bad at getting before photo's).

IMG_20200613_153246 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr

And then I gave the whole lot a good Hydrate 80 to protect it until I'm ready to fill/paint.

IMG_20200613_195142 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr

Next I need to finish de-rusting the back panel around the numberplate recess, then the back window needs to come out and I can rub everything down properly and apply filler where needed.  I'm starting a new work contract on Monday so progress might be a bit slower unfortunately.

[jjeffries]

Excellent work as always, proper solutions. John

[lebowski]

Did a bit more today on the back panel.

There were a couple of ropey sections.

IMG_20200614_144432 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr

IMG_20200614_144439 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr

IMG_20200614_183442 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr

IMG_20200614_183452 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr

I could do with knot-wheeling the rest of it to make sure it's ok and remove the rest of the corrosion.  I left it for today as it's collosally loud and I'm sure the neighbours had probably had enough.

[jonomisfit]

The sponge paint removal wheels for angle grinders are great for quickly lifting paint.

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253702172842

Whilst not quiet, I think they are quieter than twist knott wheels.

They also lift rust as well, but not like a twist knot

[lebowski]

I might give some of them a try Jono. The boot seems to act as an amplifier for the knot wheel. Nobody has complained but I'm very conscious of the racket I'm making.

[biturbo228]

Looking good!

Yeah the roof of my spitfire worked like a drum skin when wire wheeling that, as does the boot. Proper racket. Loud even through ear defenders so can't imaging what it 's like form the outside...

[jonomisfit]

Jun 15, 2020 6:21:36 GMT lebowski said:

I might give some of them a try Jono. The boot seems to act as an amplifier for the knot wheel. Nobody has complained but I'm very conscious of the racket I'm making.

You can try sticking a sack of sand down behind the panel, with a sheet of metal between then. The mass should help dampen a bit

[lebowski]

The back panel is now de-rusted

IMG_20200616_153224 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr

The drivers side door shuts and sill need rubbing down and prepping next, then filler application wherever required, before primer and paint.

Does anyone have recommendations to eliminate filler sinkage? Preferably not along the lines of 'fill it and then leave the car in a warm dry place for months before paint'. I notice the doors that I did a few months ago have very slight sinkage in a few areas. It's not severe, just slight ripples in a few places where there was none after painting.

[jjeffries]

Our (American) verbiage may be different but have you been using a glaze/stopper/fine build filler (on top of the "regular" filler) before primer? Not the single stage stuff which comes in a toothpaste-like tube, but a product that uses an activator? John

[lebowski]

I've been using Mipa P99 fine filler.

[lebowski]

Work on this has been ticking over in the background. The body is mostly prepped for paint, with the exception of the drivers side sill.

It had a few pinholes on the top of it, and the b post was slightly rotten at the bottom.

IMG_20200630_164520 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr

IMG_20200630_173022 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr

IMG_20200702_185726 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr

IMG_20200702_185736 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr

IMG_20200702_185757 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr

IMG_20200702_185808 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr