Engine Swap Mercedes W111 Coupe

[brc76]

Surely that means you just have a lot of spare time? Joking aside, people here generally just want to see what other people are up to and talk about cool old cars, stock, modified or what have you.

[Woofwoof]

Mar 19, 2020 17:13:00 GMT rmurph364 said:

 at 75 do not move as fast as I once did...

Good news that. Less chances of you making mistakes..... Rock on! 

[rmurph364]

Going to look at this Monday or Tuesday,1995 3.6 AMG says it runs good, but after buying a 3.2 that turned out to be 2,6 want to see myself.Going to buy complete car if it is what the guy says it is.

[carat 3.6]

Mar 21, 2020 4:16:57 GMT rmurph364 said:

Going to look at this Monday or Tuesday,1995 3.6 AMG says it runs good, but after buying a 3.2 that turned out to be 2,6 want to see myself.Going to buy complete car if it is what the guy says it is.

If your unsure if it really has a 3.6 engine in it, the block is stamped "AMG 36" just above the sump on the exhaust side near cyl 2.

I'm not a fan of using the 3.6 for engine swaps' getting these to run 100% perfectly cost's alot more time and money over a normal 3.2.

Also check which type of key it has, if it's the old school flat key your in luck. If it has electronics in the key of any kind you cant use the engine ecu for your swap, so walk away.


If I was in your shoes, I'd be looking for a w126 with a m117 v8. Or a w124 with a 3.2 m104.

[brc76]

Yes, that doesn't look like the AMG engine, the spark plug cover should extend to the front of the head. I think....

[Woofwoof]

This is what a C36 engine should look like. As per brc76, spark plug cover and normally it should have a AMG logo on it.  Also note the 3.6 stamped on the inlet crossover pipe.

[brc76]

Yeah, the 24v m104 looks the same, obviously minus the AMG script.

[rmurph364]

Ok guys thanks for the heads up.

[carat 3.6]

One other thing to watch out for with the 3.2 and 3.6 m104's...

On later cars in the engine ECU plug on the body side, there are 2 shrouded pins. These pins are linked to the ABS system, and if they don't see a vehicle speed signal your engine wont rev above 4000rpm.

If it's a w124 with cruise control, the engine wont rev without the cruise control ecu's being present. This is because the throttle signals to the ecu go via the cruise system, you cant bypass it either unless you swap ecu and throttle body to non cruise versions.

The points above are the reason alot of people just fit an aftermarket ecu, much less trouble.

Also keep to 4 speed gearboxes, the 5 speed unit is junk.

Don't discount a 300E with the 3.0 engine as a donnor, the old m103 engine has a fair amount of guts about it. And if you find a 300E-24, those scream like a banshee!

[Woofwoof]

Mar 22, 2020 23:54:01 GMT carat 3.6 said:

One other thing to watch out for with the 3.2 and 3.6 m104's...

On later cars in the engine ECU plug on the body side, there are 2 shrouded pins. These pins are linked to the ABS system, and if they don't see a vehicle speed signal your engine wont rev above 4000rpm.

If it's a w124 with cruise control, the engine wont rev without the cruise control ecu's being present. This is because the throttle signals to the ecu go via the cruise system, you cant bypass it either unless you swap ecu and throttle body to non cruise versions.

The points above are the reason alot of people just fit an aftermarket ecu, much less trouble.

Also keep to 4 speed gearboxes, the 5 speed unit is junk.

Don't discount a 300E with the 3.0 engine as a donnor, the old m103 engine has a fair amount of guts about it. And if you find a 300E-24, those scream like a banshee!

Sound and knowledgeable advise as usual.

The way I'd go about this transplant is: M103 or 104, 4 speed speed auto (or 5 speed manual) and a standalone engine management system.

What do you reckon Simon, am I missing anything out? 

[carat 3.6]

Mar 23, 2020 0:13:53 GMT Woofwoof said:

Mar 22, 2020 23:54:01 GMT carat 3.6 said:

One other thing to watch out for with the 3.2 and 3.6 m104's...

On later cars in the engine ECU plug on the body side, there are 2 shrouded pins. These pins are linked to the ABS system, and if they don't see a vehicle speed signal your engine wont rev above 4000rpm.

If it's a w124 with cruise control, the engine wont rev without the cruise control ecu's being present. This is because the throttle signals to the ecu go via the cruise system, you cant bypass it either unless you swap ecu and throttle body to non cruise versions.

The points above are the reason alot of people just fit an aftermarket ecu, much less trouble.

Also keep to 4 speed gearboxes, the 5 speed unit is junk.

Don't discount a 300E with the 3.0 engine as a donnor, the old m103 engine has a fair amount of guts about it. And if you find a 300E-24, those scream like a banshee!

Sound and knowledgeable advise as usual.

The way I'd go about this transplant is: M103 or 104, 4 speed speed auto (or 5 speed manual) and a standalone engine management system.

What do you reckon Simon, am I missing anything out? 

That's the sensible way to go about it, you land up with a far better car in the long run. Whilst you can (and I have many times before) use the original hfm setup, it burns through money and time quickly to the point that your costs are the same as a standalone setup.

The 3.0 M103/4 engines can be used as they are, infact you can actually run a m103 on 3 wires! Though if power and reliability is the goal an EFI conversion is the way to go.

[Woofwoof]

Mar 23, 2020 15:04:34 GMT carat 3.6 said:

Mar 23, 2020 0:13:53 GMT Woofwoof said:

Sound and knowledgeable advise as usual.

The way I'd go about this transplant is: M103 or 104, 4 speed speed auto (or 5 speed manual) and a standalone engine management system.

What do you reckon Simon, am I missing anything out? 

That's the sensible way to go about it, you land up with a far better car in the long run. Whilst you can (and I have many times before) use the original hfm setup, it burns through money and time quickly to the point that your costs are the same as a standalone setup.

The 3.0 M103/4 engines can be used as they are, infact you can actually run a m103 on 3 wires! Though if power and reliability is the goal an EFI conversion is the way to go.

cheers, good to have your input 👍

[rmurph364]

You guys were correct, was not AMG,and the steering col. had been removed and speedo, so could not see milage so I walked away,I am still on the hunt.With the above post from woofwoof and carat 3.6 about being able to use with 3 wires, leaning toward M103/4.Would really like to use the car I just bought but afraid of the smaller engine as the w 111 is a heavy car. I bought the 300E non running and had it running fine in about an hour, drove a couple of miles shifted fine and temp, oil pressure everything was good.It was not charging, and found a cut inn the ground cable from alternator, fix break and charged fine.Any thoughts on using the 2.6 103 in my W111? Thanks everyone feel fortunate to find such a helpful group.

[mrea]

Mar 24, 2020 0:58:37 GMT rmurph364 said:

You guys were correct, was not AMG,and the steering col. had been removed and speedo, so could not see milage so I walked away,I am still on the hunt.With the above post from woofwoof and carat 3.6 about being able to use with 3 wires, leaning toward M103/4.Would really like to use the car I just bought but afraid of the smaller engine as the w 111 is a heavy car. I bought the 300E non running and had it running fine in about an hour, drove a couple of miles shifted fine and temp, oil pressure everything was good.It was not charging, and found a cut inn the ground cable from alternator, fix break and charged fine.Any thoughts on using the 2.6 103 in my W111? Thanks everyone feel fortunate to find such a helpful group.

If you want a relative quick swap I would go with a M103/4 and a manual gearbox, but since I guess it'll be a nice daily cruiser I would suggest an autobox for comforrt, I am not sure how the electronics for the auto will work but probably OK if you can keep the original control module.

But in regards as it is a heavy car, it's not that heavy really, in reality only 45kg/100lbs heavier then the W124 260E Sedan. Then if you calculate the engine and gearbox weight it's probably around the same as the W124 260E, please note that I used the 260E as a reference only, it'll be less difference with a 320E/300E.

So roughly the same weight as the donor and thus around the same performance, with the main difference being the gearing in the differential.

Best regards,

Mr EA

[carat 3.6]

Mar 24, 2020 0:58:37 GMT rmurph364 said:

You guys were correct, was not AMG,and the steering col. had been removed and speedo, so could not see milage so I walked away,I am still on the hunt.With the above post from woofwoof and carat 3.6 about being able to use with 3 wires, leaning toward M103/4.Would really like to use the car I just bought but afraid of the smaller engine as the w 111 is a heavy car. I bought the 300E non running and had it running fine in about an hour, drove a couple of miles shifted fine and temp, oil pressure everything was good.It was not charging, and found a cut inn the ground cable from alternator, fix break and charged fine.Any thoughts on using the 2.6 103 in my W111? Thanks everyone feel fortunate to find such a helpful group.

You already have the m103 so why not use it? It is physically the same in every way as the 3.0 version so you can always swap it for one at a later date.

The m103's wiring harness is self contained, the connections for that are under the fusebox. You just need to label the vacumm pipes and valves that control the gearbox, as those can be confusing. The ignition is taken care of by the EZL unit which has it's own mini harness.

Just take your time with it and you'll be fine.

[Woofwoof]

Good idea initially using the M103 2.6, as Simon says you can always get a good 3.0 later and then it will be a direct swap. For reference the Euro (no smog equipment) 2.6 non Cat produced 166 BHP and the 3.0 188 BHP and probably a similar torque difference ( I can check that if you want), so not the end of the world provided your current 2.6 is in good health. I'm presuming you won't have the requirement/need to fit a Cat on the W111?

Even if you're not too keen on the 2.6 (I wouldn't be) you can use it as a mock up, that will give you a true picture of everything required and how everything is sitting.

[motardman]

And if you do abandon the 2.6, you might find a W201 owner who would happily have it.

[rmurph364]

I bought this yesterday, 1997 E320 mfg. date 12/1996 M104 .995, 130,000 miles,checked out car runs well, ran Carfax and the car was dealer serviced here in Denver since 2004, bought complete car for the swap, Decided to sell 1990 300E, will make someone a cheap driver, needs paint but runs and shifts good after I did new trans filter and some adjusting.

[rmurph364]

The E320 has some hail damage and a couple of small dents so Insurance company did not want to fixe and called it complete loss.I bought with regular Colorado title, which makes no difference to me as I am just going to park it next to W11 and start the swap.Let the fun begin...

[fiataygo]

Apr 9, 2020 23:45:27 GMT rmurph364 said:

Let the fun begin...

Excited about this, I'll be watching with interest. Good luck!