Econo Jag MK2 1967 2.4 Auto

[homersimpson]

Mar 20, 2020 21:54:07 GMT pauly22 said:

Great car and great work.

Engine wise, I’d copy these people

rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F293041026829

I keep looking at that, it looks and absolute bargain for what it is and I can't believe it hasn't sold yet.

The original S-Type is a very nice car, I restored one back in around 2003 and it was awesome.

My wife would kill me if I brought another one home.

[homersimpson]

So with the front outer wing looking a bit more like it should my attention diverted to the inner wing.

I cut out the section that joins the inner wing to the front foot well as the seam was full of rust and found that the inner wing was weak in this location so a new section had to be made and welded to the bit I had already replaced earier :-(

Next I started on the front end of the outer wing and repaired the flange under the indicator.

Next I removed the side light pod, on this car this is made up of the outer wing, a piece which forms the bottom of the pod and the pod itself, the other one I did was a 1959 (this one is 1967) as the other one has the wing is solid so the pod was just welded directly to it.

This is the wing with the sidelight pod removed on the 1967 car.

This is the 1967 sidelight pod and the piece under it (you can just see a new one I have made in the background).

This is the wing of the 1959 car where the sidelight pod sits, its interesting to see how minor changes were made across the production life.  The 1959 car has the brackets on the body for a MK1 handbrake which were deleted on the later cars, until I had looked closely at both I didn't realise.

[homersimpson]

This is the repaired pod all welded back in.

Next up comes the sill to A post repair, pay attention all budding MK2 restorers, this area is very often neglegted when cars are restored but is really important to maintain the integrity of the body shell.  Its not uncommon to find this area just full of clag which rather unsurprisingly starts to crack.

I cut out all the rot and ended up with this.

I have really struggled to find pictures of what this should look like and all the cars I have had have had this area largely missing/rotted out.

From the limited information I have I think this area should look like this.

Then with a few more repairs to the outer wing I trial fitted a new arch section with self tapping screws and it looked like this.

I won't weld the arch on until I decide whether to have the body shot blasted and thats a decision I haven't made yet as I can't find anyone local who can do it due to the size and everyone a distance away wants a fortune to do it.  I had the other one done in 2013 by a guy in Redditch who has since moved, he charged me £600 for the shell, doors, boot and bonnet which was probably a bit too cheap.

[Phil H]

Enviro-strip in Tamworth? I’m sure @grumpynorthener will be able to advise as he uses them on a regular basis. He travels up from Hampshire to use them..and they’re relatively on your doorstep by comparison.

[goldnrust]

Mar 21, 2020 17:10:22 GMT homersimpson said:

Its not uncommon to find this area just full of clag which rather unsurprisingly starts to crack.

Yup mine was full of filler and cracking from the lower front corner of the door aperture...

Mar 21, 2020 17:10:22 GMT homersimpson said:

From the limited information I have I think this area should look like this.

There was enough original mental left of the bottom of my drivers A post, to confirm that is correct.

As you've already made good progress with the welding, what's making you consider shot blasting at this stage? Rather than just continuing the good job you've started?

[metalshapes]

A little tip for the next time you have to get seized pistons out of a rusty engine.

don't use diesel or any kind of penetrating oil.

Use water.

Fill the cylinders and let it sit, before trying to break it loose.

I have used this several times, and it works.

( but it wont if you have already tried diesel or oil )

I have used it to unstick rusty/ seized brakes as well ( rare finned aluminum drums I didnt want to beat on with a hammer )

Took the entire upright and put it in a bucket for a couple of days.

[Deleted]

Mar 21, 2020 17:14:46 GMT Phil H said:

Enviro-strip in Tamworth? I’m sure @grumpynorthener will be able to advise as he uses them on a regular basis. He travels up from Hampshire to use them..and they’re relatively on your doorstep by comparison.

I will never have a bodyshell blasted again - firstly the risk of distortion is huge especially to the larger panels / roof skin - secondly blasting will only get to the areas that the blaster can access - I always have my shells & panels dipped & primed at Envirostrip - they are fantastic at what they do and the only company that I trust - I normally send 2 - 3 shells a year to them - you can save a little money if you just have it dipped and not primed if you can undertake that process yourself - they use 'Novol' which is a good protective primer that is also weld thro' - by dipping all the rust is removed from not just the seen areas but from the cavities too - well worth the effort & expense - (add up the cost of abrasives / time slogged in removing paint)

A recent collection from them

[jjeffries]

GN, does envirostrip spray the primer or dip the body somehow? Thx, John

[Deleted]

Mar 22, 2020 0:06:59 GMT jjeffries said:

GN, does envirostrip spray the primer or dip the body somehow? Thx, John

John - The primer is sprayed on all external / internal surfaces that they can access - its more than good enough to protect the shell & panels whilst the car is being restored - of course its important to apply cavity wax to all the inaccessible areas once the car is painted / completed but provided the shell / panels are kept in a dry area whilst work is being undertaken - its not a problem

[homersimpson]

Mar 21, 2020 20:47:30 GMT goldnrust said:

Mar 21, 2020 17:10:22 GMT homersimpson said:

As you've already made good progress with the welding, what's making you consider shot blasting at this stage? Rather than just continuing the good job you've started?

I wanted to have it shot blasted to get it all back to bare metal, I only started welding to put the structural strength back into the shell so it could go on the rotisserie to be sent away to do this.

I got carried away with the welder!

[homersimpson]

Mar 21, 2020 22:01:00 GMT @grumpynorthener said:

Mar 21, 2020 17:14:46 GMT Phil H said:

Enviro-strip in Tamworth? I’m sure @grumpynorthener will be able to advise as he uses them on a regular basis. He travels up from Hampshire to use them..and they’re relatively on your doorstep by comparison.

I will never have a bodyshell blasted again - firstly the risk of distortion is huge especially to the larger panels / roof skin - secondly blasting will only get to the areas that the blaster can access - I always have my shells & panels dipped & primed at Envirostrip - they are fantastic at what they do and the only company that I trust - I normally send 2 - 3 shells a year to them - you can save a little money if you just have it dipped and not primed if you can undertake that process yourself - they use 'Novol' which is a good protective primer that is also weld thro' - by dipping all the rust is removed from not just the seen areas but from the cavities too - well worth the effort & expense - (add up the cost of abrasives / time slogged in removing paint)

I've contacted them for a quote, however, I suspect that it will be more expensive than I can afford/justify on this project.  If I can't find anyone local to do it then I will have to do it all by hand in which case I will be looking for recommednations on what to use on the rust that I can't get out/off.

With shotblasting i've always only had the rusty areas blasted so large panels like the roof I just strip them, run a DA over and then they might blast any small localised rust.  This car has a massive dent in the roof that has been filled over (badly) thats fallen out so the roof is quite rust and not very straight already.

I really couldn't have picked a worse one to start with :-)

[homersimpson]

After the weldathon on the wing I moved into the engine bay and started to repair around the pedal box and at the rear of the battery.

I don't have any pictures of the bit around the pedal box byt you can see where I had to change the battery base bracketin the picture above.

[homersimpson]

Next I turned my attention to the rear wheel arch, I chopped out a rusty section.

Then the rear jacking point went in.

The D post was next to put some stength back in (on Jaguar MK2's they call this the D post but to me its the C post).

The outer section is where the rear wheel spat fits to and this was totally rotten so it was removed and replaced, this is the old and the new together.

The underside of the D post was cleaned up and repaired.

I then fabricated new inner and out arch front sections and the inside closing panel for the D post.

There were a few more repairs of the inner wheel arch which for some reason I don't have picrures of the finished article and then I called this bit done for now as I will do the rear sections of the inner arch when I do the tonneau panels.

The next bit was the underside of the panel under the rear window in the boot, this is important for the strength of the rear seatbelts and can't usually be seen but on this car I could see it when the rear inner wheel arch was removed and it didn't look good.

The only way to repair this properly is to cut a large hole in the outer wing, here goes nothing!

[homersimpson]

I don't seem to have a picture of the section of the rear wing welded back in but suffice to say that was done and I then repaired the panel at the back of the back seat where it meets the rear wheel arch.

I then turned by attention to the base of the B/C post and again don't seem to have photos of the finished product but it was put back to how it should be,

[homersimpson]

[Deleted]

Mar 22, 2020 9:59:20 GMT homersimpson said:

Mar 21, 2020 22:01:00 GMT @grumpynorthener said:

I will never have a bodyshell blasted again - firstly the risk of distortion is huge especially to the larger panels / roof skin - secondly blasting will only get to the areas that the blaster can access - I always have my shells & panels dipped & primed at Envirostrip - they are fantastic at what they do and the only company that I trust - I normally send 2 - 3 shells a year to them - you can save a little money if you just have it dipped and not primed if you can undertake that process yourself - they use 'Novol' which is a good protective primer that is also weld thro' - by dipping all the rust is removed from not just the seen areas but from the cavities too - well worth the effort & expense - (add up the cost of abrasives / time slogged in removing paint)

I've contacted them for a quote, however, I suspect that it will be more expensive than I can afford/justify on this project.  If I can't find anyone local to do it then I will have to do it all by hand in which case I will be looking for recommednations on what to use on the rust that I can't get out/off.

With shotblasting i've always only had the rusty areas blasted so large panels like the roof I just strip them, run a DA over and then they might blast any small localised rust.  This car has a massive dent in the roof that has been filled over (badly) thats fallen out so the roof is quite rust and not very straight already.

I really couldn't have picked a worse one to start with :-)

Its normally around the £1,000 mark + vat for just dipping - the primer will add another £500 + vat to the bill - if you can do the primer yourself then you can save yourself a lump of money - I would think that a blaster would want circa £800 + to blast a MK 2 shell & panels and you still have to do all the large panels by hand hence you have the expense of stripper / abrasives + your time & the associated mess of doing so and at this point you are not saving any money - If you can get the shell & panels dipped for sub £1500 I would count that as probably the best money most economically spent on this project - I went for years thinking that I was saving money by undertaking the stripping process myself not having the hassle of trailering / transporting bodyshells - turning point for me was a client insisting that the dipping process is what they wanted - I now will not have it any other way - its just the most cost effective / clean sheet solution to removing the paint & rust - I fully appreciate that you are on a budget BUT given the extent & quality of work that you are undertaking on this project it would be an injustice to your skills to not clean sheet the metalwork for the sake of few hundred quid

[07lilredwagon]

What an education in economics, Grumpy.


and the work to this car is exceptional thus far. very well done...looking forward to more pics.

JP

[homersimpson]

Mar 22, 2020 10:43:09 GMT @grumpynorthener said:

Mar 22, 2020 9:59:20 GMT homersimpson said:

I've contacted them for a quote, however, I suspect that it will be more expensive than I can afford/justify on this project.  If I can't find anyone local to do it then I will have to do it all by hand in which case I will be looking for recommednations on what to use on the rust that I can't get out/off.

With shotblasting i've always only had the rusty areas blasted so large panels like the roof I just strip them, run a DA over and then they might blast any small localised rust.  This car has a massive dent in the roof that has been filled over (badly) thats fallen out so the roof is quite rust and not very straight already.

I really couldn't have picked a worse one to start with :-)

Its normally around the £1,000 mark + vat for just dipping - the primer will add another £500 + vat to the bill - if you can do the primer yourself then you can save yourself a lump of money - I would think that a blaster would want circa £800 + to blast a MK 2 shell & panels and you still have to do all the large panels by hand hence you have the expense of stripper / abrasives + your time & the associated mess of doing so and at this point you are not saving any money - If you can get the shell & panels dipped for sub £1500 I would count that as probably the best money most economically spent on this project - I went for years thinking that I was saving money by undertaking the stripping process myself not having the hassle of trailering / transporting bodyshells - turning point for me was a client insisting that the dipping process is what they wanted - I now will not have it any other way - its just the most cost effective / clean sheet solution to removing the paint & rust - I fully appreciate that you are on a budget BUT given the extent & quality of work that you are undertaking on this project it would be an injustice to your skills to not clean sheet the metalwork for the sake of few hundred quid

Thanks, its definately food for thought, however, at the moment I'm just about to move house and where we are going has a much smaller garage and the house needs a lot of decoration and the garden needs a lot of work so it might be something that I have to delay.  I would like to have it cleaned, its interesting that they say that they don't use any chemicals that will cause problems in future, the chemical process has always put me off as I have seen three vehicles where they were dipped at a firm in the black country and they have all had serious corrosion problems on the seams, one was a rust free Frogeyey sprite from the US which after a couple of years had rust bleeding out of the front wing seam like it had been a the bottom of the ocean.

The car is now locked away in my mums garage surround by stuff until we move which was meant to be next friday but as exchange was delayed as the bottom of the chain weren't ready who know how long this could take (or even if it will happen).

[Phil H]

On another note (and something else recommended by Grumpy, others and now myself) is Bilt Hamber Hydrate 80 rust converter. Might seem expensive in £/litre but it goes an awfully long way.

[Deleted]

Mar 22, 2020 12:14:38 GMT homersimpson said:

Mar 22, 2020 10:43:09 GMT @grumpynorthener said:

Its normally around the £1,000 mark + vat for just dipping - the primer will add another £500 + vat to the bill - if you can do the primer yourself then you can save yourself a lump of money - I would think that a blaster would want circa £800 + to blast a MK 2 shell & panels and you still have to do all the large panels by hand hence you have the expense of stripper / abrasives + your time & the associated mess of doing so and at this point you are not saving any money - If you can get the shell & panels dipped for sub £1500 I would count that as probably the best money most economically spent on this project - I went for years thinking that I was saving money by undertaking the stripping process myself not having the hassle of trailering / transporting bodyshells - turning point for me was a client insisting that the dipping process is what they wanted - I now will not have it any other way - its just the most cost effective / clean sheet solution to removing the paint & rust - I fully appreciate that you are on a budget BUT given the extent & quality of work that you are undertaking on this project it would be an injustice to your skills to not clean sheet the metalwork for the sake of few hundred quid

Thanks, its definately food for thought, however, at the moment I'm just about to move house and where we are going has a much smaller garage and the house needs a lot of decoration and the garden needs a lot of work so it might be something that I have to delay.  I would like to have it cleaned, its interesting that they say that they don't use any chemicals that will cause problems in future, the chemical process has always put me off as I have seen three vehicles where they were dipped at a firm in the black country and they have all had serious corrosion problems on the seams, one was a rust free Frogeyey sprite from the US which after a couple of years had rust bleeding out of the front wing seam like it had been a the bottom of the ocean.

The car is now locked away in my mums garage surround by stuff until we move which was meant to be next friday but as exchange was delayed as the bottom of the chain weren't ready who know how long this could take (or even if it will happen).

There is a untold amount of horror stories about cars being dipped / dipping companies taking short cuts / stunning restorations ruined by the process - Its essential that you chose the correct process & company - I continue to use the services of Envirostrip whom have always produced excellent results - I have several restorations that have all been through the dipping process with EV that have been completed and have been out there with the clients / owners for several years - all without issue

Good luck with the house move but you have broken the golden rule - the rest of us 'upsize' on the garage space when we move - but I'm sure that you have your own reasons - good luck regardless - Chris