Paul Y
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So as we go into, week 7?, of lock down I am sorting out all the nuts and bolts for Woody. Having seen the time cleaning them would quite like to keep them that way so looking at methods of perseveration - cold galv spray or electroplating seem to be the two options. Question is then who has done some home plating, what kit did you use, was it worth the agro or should I just take a bucket of bolts to the platers? OR... Cold galv spray using something like the no nonsense product available from Screw Fix? OR OR... Just throw them back open and hot with a bit of paint when they are all tightened up? Thanks in advance. P.
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I bought the zinc passivating kit from Gateros plating, and I've done some stuff with it. I've actually just bought a proper adjustable power supply for it (the kit comes with a very basic one) with the intention of plating some stuff for my current project. The key to getting a decent plated surface is how well you can clean the original part. I've done quite a few good pieces, and quite a few that came out dull because (I think) it wasn't clean enough to start with. But another reason might be the current, which is why I bought the proper PSU. If the item is pitted, you'll get black dots on the final finish. As for whether it's actually worth it, I guess that depends on how much it costs you to get them done properly. The experimentation with current and so on is something a proper commercial plater won't need to do. I had a batch of stuff done which worked out quite expensive relative to other people using other companies, but I don't have other companies around here which would involve quite costly postage due to weight. But it was all very bright and shiny. I like being able to do these things myself, so from that point of view it was worth it. But it does take a bit of room up, so my plating kit isn't set out at the moment. Photo of variable results: The two big shaped washers are pretty good, the others no so much. You can see on the bonnet bin what I mean about the black marks where the surface is pitted. That's no different than a commercial plater. Another thing to bear in mind is that with some plating processes, you can run into a thing called "hydrogen embrittlement", I'm not certain of the details but it does mean that if you're doing something like a suspension bolt, you need to subject the piece to high heat (oven on full for a couple of hours, from what I read) after the plating process to stop it going brittle. Another thing that I hope the commercial plater will take into account.
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Paul Y
Posted a lot
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Thanks for the swift reply. I didn’t know about hydrogen embrittlement and, as the majority of the nuts and bolts are suspension, good job I found out now. Might be a bit tricky using the oven over lockdown.... might have to resort to gin. Or chloroform... Will have a look at that kit. P.
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Last Edit: May 1, 2020 8:57:07 GMT by Paul Y
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Kron
Part of things
Posts: 260
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I'm just throwing ideas out there, but would anodizing be another option?
I have no idea if it offers rust protection on steel, or even if it can be done at a home level on steel, although I know anodizing aluminium components can be done at home..
Just a thought.
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Last Edit: May 1, 2020 20:04:00 GMT by Kron: Grammar & Spelling.
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Can you not replace them for BZP items, or even stainless?
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Paul Y
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Posts: 1,948
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Not thought of anodising, not sure if it works on steel, will do some research. Cost is a major factor in replacing the components, that and the fact that they are a combination of A/F and shanked. P.
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Ive always used a zinc phosphate wash, Eastwoods do one called fast etch, or if you have a local powder coaters near you see if they will sell you some
Its great for removing rust on anything and leaves a zinc/phosphate coating which is a dark grey colour and more natural looking, it seems to last just as long as plating without rusting, no special equipment needed except a plastic tub to chuck everything in!
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v8ian
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Posts: 3,748
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Annodizing is not for steel....... Alluminium and some magnesium variants,
Is hpme plating worth the effort, I'm not sure, as with painting, prep is what gives good shiny results, and its the prep that takes the time, and, how long or fussy are you wanting to get the finish you may require, plating over rust, I think will be a waste of effort inn the long term,
Hydrogen Embrittlement would not be a problem with normal medium tensile bolts, the problem occurs in high tensile applications. and is not only caused by plating, but pickeling to remove rust as well, and is one of the reasons you should never see HT bolts plated, thy normally come with a black finish
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Last Edit: May 1, 2020 12:47:39 GMT by v8ian
Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style. Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
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I didn’t know about hydrogen embrittlement and, as the majority of the nuts and bolts are suspension, good job I found out now. I hadn't until recently, it came up on the Gateros facebook group. Hydrogen Embrittlement would not be a problem with normal medium tensile bolts, the problem occurs in high tensile applications. Yes, I should have said "high tensile" rather than specifically suspension bolts.
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Hi, If you want or don't mind a black finish, you could try oil blacking by heating red hot and dropping in used engine oil. Or try gun blueing or blackening, a cheaper alternative is to immerse them in a mixture of bleach and vinegar gives the same finish.
Colin
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v8ian
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,748
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Oil blacking up to Cherry would kill the heat treatment and the Tensile value of the bolt,
Another thing thats a bit of a NoNo is chroming suspension parts, chrome will hide cracks, you will never see chrome suspension on a racer, its all nickel.
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Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style. Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
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Hi, If you want or don't mind a black finish, you could try oil blacking by heating red hot and dropping in used engine oil. Or try gun blueing or blackening, a cheaper alternative is to immerse them in a mixture of bleach and vinegar gives the same finish. Colin DO NOT mix bleach and vinegar. It releases chlorine and can be deadly.
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-( 2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap V8 Humber Hawk 1948 Standard12 pickup 1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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Ive always used a zinc phosphate wash, Eastwoods do one called fast etch, or if you have a local powder coaters near you see if they will sell you some Its great for removing rust on anything and leaves a zinc/phosphate coating which is a dark grey colour and more natural looking, it seems to last just as long as plating without rusting, no special equipment needed except a plastic tub to chuck everything in! So this works for suspension bolts etc? How long before the bolts start to rust again?
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,710
Club RR Member Number: 34
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In my experience, screwfix cold galv spray lasts longer than home electroplating.
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Paul Y
Posted a lot
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May 11, 2020 13:34:02 GMT
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Is that the No Nonsense branded variety DezWould seem like the easy option. P.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,710
Club RR Member Number: 34
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May 11, 2020 13:44:12 GMT
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Yeah it is. I’ve always had very good results with it.
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May 11, 2020 13:51:55 GMT
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Ive always used a zinc phosphate wash, Eastwoods do one called fast etch, or if you have a local powder coaters near you see if they will sell you some Its great for removing rust on anything and leaves a zinc/phosphate coating which is a dark grey colour and more natural looking, it seems to last just as long as plating without rusting, no special equipment needed except a plastic tub to chuck everything in! So this works for suspension bolts etc? How long before the bolts start to rust again? The Viva has been done about 10yrs and they have just started to go again, on bolt heads/nuts you need to touch them up again once you've tightened them up though
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May 14, 2020 22:26:32 GMT
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I too have the zinc kit from Gateros. I got some good results initially but had power supply problems and started getting very dull results. I now have a proper PSU and intend to have another go at it.
However, it is very time consuming. It takes a while to get the 'process' dialled in, and then I had the power supply problems before I got it properly sorted out. I found that the plating current was fairly important to get right. It was so many mA per square inch so you had to estimate the surface area you were plating. Commercially that's probably easier because you have so much stuff in the tank that errors in current are less significant.
I'll give it another go, if nothing else because every time I look at the engine I'm faced with a sea of rusty nuts and bolts and that winds me up. I also have to say that I'm tending to replace the original nuts and bolts that hold trim panels on with stainless ones. I wouldn't use if for any thing important though 'cos I suspect that stainless is more brittle than mild steel.
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moglite
Part of things
Posts: 815
Club RR Member Number: 144
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May 19, 2020 15:11:30 GMT
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I too have the zinc kit from Gateros. I got some good results initially but had power supply problems and started getting very dull results. I now have a proper PSU and intend to have another go at it. I'm looking at a kit from Gateros too but I see their power supplies are out of stock, and judging by your experience - aren't great. What power supply did you go for ?
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1967 Morris Oxford Traveller 1979 Toyota LandCruiser BJ40 1993 Daimler Double Six 2007 Volvo XC70 2.4D
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May 19, 2020 16:58:26 GMT
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I'm looking at a kit from Gateros too but I see their power supplies are out of stock, and judging by your experience - aren't great. What power supply did you go for ? To be fair to them the problems I had were my own stupid fault. With the kit you get a curly resistance wire and you control the current by moving a croc clip up and down the wire. Probably, if I'd stuck with that and not messed about I'd be fine. But I wanted to have better control of the process so things were repeatable so I got my multimeter to measure amps and replaced the curly wire with a home made switching regulator thing. (I'd been playing with LED dimmers at work and had a very dirty design to hand.) My problem came because the switching regulator thing I built couldn't cope with the load that the plating tank gave it and it blew up. That would have been fine if it just died but instead it went short circuit and dumped 12V into the plating tank at God alone knows what current. The first I realised was when I spotted the tank fizzing really badly. That destroyed the plating solution and that's where I am now. Totally my own fault. When I was trying to diagnose the problems after I'd boiled the plating solution I was in contact with Gateros and they were very helpful and responsive. Some time ago I made up a new plating solution and I've bought this... uk.farnell.com/tenma/72-10480/power-supply-1ch-30v-3a-adjustable/dp/2251946Which is currently running the big loop clock from work (another story). But hopefully it'll run the tank when I get round to resurrecting it. Wish me luck! James
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