1928 Ford Model A Sedan- Drag it til the wheels fall off…

[Dez]

Other stuff.
I got this made up ages ago when the pendine rules changes were announced.
Basically if you go over 100mph you’ll be sidelined if you don’t have roll over protection. As I have as much if not more horsepower as the cars that are doing that, plus am a bit more streamlined due to the belly pan, etc. it’s seems inevitable, so I decided to add one. I think you have to have door bars as well now, but I can make them bolt-in if necessary.
It’s the industry standard 1-3/4”CDS (or 45.5mm as it’s become these days), but i deliberately wanted it to look like a simple old fashioned gas bent job, so it’s super basic. Literally two bends and two mitres and that’s it.


It’ll sit here(well slightly further forward towards the B-pillars) with the legs going back to the top corners of the rear kickup. But that’ll mean reworking all the body floor framing, so that’ll be getting redone. Well, it’ll mostly be going in the bin tbh.


You may have noticed the fuel tank there.
Originally I’d got a reworked ldv400 steel tank behind the rear crossmember in the larger space to this side here, with the battery in the smaller compartment.


But that kinda contradicted the roll hoop, as if I managed to put it on its roof I’d smash the fuel tank to hell as it was mounted to the body.
So I decided to get a different tank that would fit within the confines of the chassis. That way if I did roll it it would be protected. Next to my head yes, but still protected.
So i got this spun ally tank that fits in the chassis void between the seats and the rear crossmember just perfect.


I especially like the way the tapered ends match the shape of the rear crossmember gussets. Just need to fab up some appropriately fancy mounts, but that’ll happen after the axle is in.

It’s also a pretty major factor in the ‘drivable chassis’ plan sorted, the other one being the battery location.

[Dez]

I’m gunna put the battery here in the passenger footwell, in the tray that previously mounted the pedal assemblies. This is convenient as it’s right next to the starter motor and solenoid, and close to where the fusebox etc. will be. So a minimum amount of wiring. It’ll also serve to balance the weight across the car a bit, and keep it nice and low.




I’ve also sourced a different steering box. I wasn’t happy with the reworked VW bay window one, although the lengthened output shaft was nicely done, the way the column originally mounted left it quite unsupported, as it was originally on a rag joint with a splined flange not designed to support an outer column as well. As I’m looking to make the bare chassis drivable, I really need a steering box that doesn’t need tying to the bodywork to support it.

After much searching I found that rover p4 was a very good candidate. They have a very long output shaft cos of the deep chassis, (I need a long output shaft to step the steering arm across so it’s outside the car, on my cowl steer setup) they have a proper supported outer column, turn the right way, and even look quite nice too being a ‘50s ally casting. Only bad thing really is the funny British threads.

I managed to pick one up cheap cos someone had chopped the column in half, so none of the rover boys wanted it. It was a little short for my needs too, but I needed to adapt it a bit anyway so this was no major problem. First thing I did was remove the stub of the old outer column from the casting that attaches it to the box. This involved grinding some rivets out from the inside and drifting them out.


Leaving me with this-


I then purchased a new length of tube to make a new outer column. 1-1/4” diameter from memory. I managed to source it in stainless, it was a bit pricey but will look spiffing when polished rather than painted.
Here it is test fitted.


I then needed to graft on the upper column part of a ford column to give me a ‘normal’, (to me anyway) Keyed taper for steering wheel attachment. Conveniently the rover inner column is 3/4”, as are most of the ford ones, so I could used a leftover bit of ford pilot column to do this. I could even use the redundant pilot steering lock sleeve to join them, once I’d whittled it down a bit in the lathe so it fits inside the new tube.


I’m just waiting on a bronze bush for the top end before final trimming to length and welding together.
Also still deliberating on what steering wheel to go for.

[bstardchild]

was this the one that was powered by an oil burner many years back - bloody loved that car

[Paul Y]

Yay! New Dez thread.

Boo! More burnt offerings.

Looking forward to learning more.

P.

[Dez]

Jun 16, 2020 23:18:44 GMT bstardchild said:

was this the one that was powered by an oil burner many years back - bloody loved that car

Nah that was the Hudson truck. I’ve just sold it actually.

[Dez]

Jun 17, 2020 8:09:57 GMT Paul Y said:

Yay! New Dez thread.

Boo! More burnt offerings.

Looking forward to learning more.

P.

I keep thinking there can be much burnt stuff left now, but I keep finding things to send to the sandblaster!

[Dez]

Bit more cleaning today. Cleaned down the valley cover area properly, blew it off and tack ragged it to removed all detritus.


Then removed it to check everything inside was good. It was.


Also wiped down a lot of the rest of the motor (that I could get to) and it’s come up pretty well. Looks like I’ll probably get away with a re-coat rather than having to strip it all.



I found the replacement rear shocks too. Proably use the old linkages though as they’re rebuildable and these aren’t.

[forkliftfred]

Awesome thread. I'd love to get to Pendine Sands one year, just as a spectator though.

[Dez]

Jun 18, 2020 11:18:34 GMT forkliftfred said:

Awesome thread. I'd love to get to Pendine Sands one year, just as a spectator though.

I marshalled there the other year, running joke was I got more runs down the beach than the racers! They weren’t timed though.

Getting to pendine as a racer is proving an issue, in this car anyways. See the following update...

[Dez]

So, I’ve been trying to put my roll bar in. If I can potentially do 100mph I needs roll bar, 110mph I need a cage.

For now I was planning a roll bar than can be turned into a cage later. But know I’m doubting if its worth the effort for half a dozen runs up a beach once a year. Problem is the regulations seem ill thought out for this type of car.

These are the regs-


Problem one is the width. My chassis is 44” wide from the B-pillar back, the absolute max with it can be and still get the body off. So obviously the cage can’t be any wider than that either. But model As are much wider at the top than the bottom, as the body rolls in.
I can just about get away with it on it being ‘shoulder width’ but it’s right on the limit. I’m 18” at the shoulder, the seat pads are 15” wide and there’s a 6” tunnel. It probably OK though.

The real issue is the fore/aft positioning. Today I fitted the cage in what seems the most natural position-




Here seems most natural in terms of vision, comfort and ease of getting in and out, but is too far forward to meet regs. So tomorrow I’ve got to try moving it back and see if it’s any good there. Both I think the kickup will be in the way. I’m already fairly sure I won’t be happy with it there though, so am considering getting rid altogether and not bothering making it pendine legal.

[Darkspeed]

There does not appear to be a requirement for the main hoop to be vertical or the assembly to be fully welded - Could you not place it at the kick up and then angle the main hoop back to where it needs to be to clear heads. Make it a bolt in assembly sleeving the chassis using removable back stay's etc. that you just fit for the weekend if racing and stored away the rest of the time. It makes special mention that cages must be fully welded but not roll bars - Just "sufficiently braced to prevent collapse" Only needs to be attached to the frame - no mention of welded.

[Deleted]

Great to see this back on RR.
Your builds are a favorite of mine.
Some day I hope to build a Model A myself. Someday.

[PhilA]

An assembled one for inspiration(?!), just got this one running at the weekend for my neighbor. Must've been a sign.

Glad you've decided to get back to yours though.

Phil

[Dez]

Jun 18, 2020 22:21:42 GMT Darkspeed said:

There does not appear to be a requirement for the main hoop to be vertical or the assembly to be fully welded - Could you not place it at the kick up and then angle the main hoop back to where it needs to be to clear heads. Make it a bolt in assembly sleeving the chassis using removable back stay's etc. that you just fit for the weekend if racing and stored away the rest of the time. It makes special mention that cages must be fully welded but not roll bars - Just "sufficiently braced to prevent collapse" Only needs to be attached to the frame - no mention of welded.

One of the major issues is that I now can’t have a roll hoop then add bolt-in front bars to make it a cage. It has to be a full assembly. So my original plan (to the old regs) of a welded in hoop for street use with an additional front section for racing is now a no-go, even though for most forms of motorsport bolt in cage sections are perfectly acceptable, and often the only way to actually get a cage in a car.
I’d have to make a fully welded assembly, but it can be bolt in. This becomes problematic for fitting, especially mounting the front legs, as The only way to get it in there is drop the body over the cage once bolted to the chassis, but I think front legs will prevent this.
The only way I can think of to get round this is use the existing loop as the front loop and add another further back, more of a cell than a cage.

Other regs further complicate things, as I also have to have a 5-point harness. I can add a harness bar to the cage or chassis but there’s nowhere for a submarine Strap without moving the seat up slightly which will cause head height issues.
They’re now also saying arm restraints too, which is fairly stupid in a closed car. They serve a purpose in a roadster but I don’t see the point if you’ve got a roof and doors.

Overall it adds a lot of complexity to what is a pretty simple car, for no appreciable increase in safety, and kinda goes against the spirit of the event to me really.
I understand the need for some concessions to appease insurers, etc. But I’m most cases the full cages being asked for will do nothing more than a roll hoop would if the worse Happened.

Ultimately I don’t want to ruin my cars usability for other things for the sake of what is maybe 5mins a year racing. If I can make it all bolt in so I can take it out again for street use then fine, otherwise It’s just not worth it.

[dazee]

Good to see this build coming back on track. Will follow with interest.

[mungo]

Don't bother with the roll bar ...tell'em it's only geared do 95mph .... shhhh
love the car by the way .

[jonomisfit]

How important is aero?

Can you make the cage bolt onto the outside of the body, like hill rally landrover?

[thomge]

As an owner of a Model A pick-up I really like this.

Regarding the cage, what are you doing for a roof insert? If this were removable, could you drop the cage down into the car to allow fitting/removal?

[Ralph.Wrecked.It]

Oh wowzers, I did not like seeing those unfortunate photos.

That aside, this car is going to look absolutely killer!!!! Very much looking forward to following the progress.

[Dez]

Jun 18, 2020 22:37:32 GMT @quickrack1 said:

Great to see this back on RR.
Your builds are a favorite of mine.
Some day I hope to build a Model A myself. Someday.

They seem pretty cheap at the mo, for stock stuff anyway. I know where there’s a complete stock running and driving chassis For £3.5k.