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Aug 11, 2020 13:09:51 GMT
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I keep getting parking tickets on my Mitsubishi Celeste because Winchester City Council have decided that the road where I park it is now a permit zone, but... As you can see the road that it's parked on has no signage saying it's a permit zone, and no parking bays marked on the road saying it's a permit zone. Everywhere else in Winchester that is a permit zone has both bays painted on the road, and in some areas they're painted on the pavement so you have to park on the pavement which means people walking on the pavement now have to walk on the road. And they also have signs saying permit zone next to the bays so that you are completely aware that you're in a permit zone. So what I'm looking for knowledgeable folk of Retro Rides is this, Does the council have to put up signs, and paint bays on the road so that you know you're obviously parking in a permit zone, or can they not give any notification so that you park there unaware, and they can therefore give you a ticket. Also, I've been away for the weekend, and in that short amount of time I've amassed a fair collection of tickets, and at £70 a pop I'm not sure I can afford to pay them all, so if I am in the wrong, does anyone know the best way I can get out of paying them? As always your opinions are very welcome, and highly valued.
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Parking Finesfr€$h&m1nt¥
@freshandminty
Club Retro Rides Member 99
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Aug 11, 2020 13:15:18 GMT
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That's crazy, are they leaving drivers to guess? I thought / guessed the law was a single yellow line and / or a dashed white line bay with a relevant sign indicating restrictions / penalty every X metres. The sign erection / line painting might be delayed due to reduced workforce in covid times or other delays but if that was the case surely the penalties shouldn't be issued until the warnings were in place? ETA: www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/parking-guide/It doesn't mention required signage www.winchester.gov.uk/parking/residents-parking/residents-on-street-parking-permitsThis has a list of streets applicable -https://www.winchester.gov.uk/assets/attach/23392/20%20Apr%20Residents%20Permit%20INFORMATION%20only.pdf
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Aug 11, 2020 14:04:14 GMT
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The only thing I think I know about parking regulations and Yellow lines is, for yellow lines to be valid they have to be unbroken and capped at the end. I was told of someone who got away with not paying a parking fine because a leaf was left on the road when the lines were painted, resulting in a leaf-shaped gap in the line, making it invalid. I don't know how true that is, but if it is true, then id imagine you wont have a fine to pay.
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ecosse01
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 42
Club RR Member Number: 28
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Parking Finesecosse01
@ecosse01
Club Retro Rides Member 28
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Aug 11, 2020 14:11:17 GMT
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Aug 11, 2020 14:59:09 GMT
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Not really interested in your fines..... (see smiley wink)
But that looks like a car that would fit nicely on my drive.
Like that shape.
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Last Edit: Aug 11, 2020 14:59:53 GMT by grizz
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Aug 11, 2020 15:33:35 GMT
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that looks like a car that would fit nicely on my drive. Like that shape. Yeah it's a lovely little thing, and I've had it a real long time... I can't see it gracing anyone elses drive if I'm honest No, I know it doesn't mention required signage, but everywhere else they've done the permit parking scam they've put up signs and marked out bays. the thing is, I reckon I'll end up stumping out the money because you just don't seem to be able to reason with the council. I've even applied for a permit half a dozen times but because their offices are shut due to the pandemic I've had no replies to my applications or letters. All that being said when I had my Pontiac Trans Am a few years back I was forever getting tickets because although I could get all four wheels tucked inside the bays the bodywork would hang out slightly, therefore I got tickets because it was not parked within the bay... I've really got to find a better place to live.
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Aug 11, 2020 15:54:03 GMT
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Very pretty too, quite dainty if a car can be that.
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Aug 11, 2020 16:28:57 GMT
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Very pretty too, quite dainty if a car can be that. Yep, it's a lovely little thing to drive.
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duncanmartin
Club Retro Rides Member
Out of retro ownership
Posts: 1,320
Club RR Member Number: 70
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Parking Finesduncanmartin
@duncanmartin
Club Retro Rides Member 70
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Aug 11, 2020 16:43:25 GMT
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No, I know it doesn't mention required signage, but everywhere else they've done the permit parking scam they've put up signs and marked out bays. the thing is, I reckon I'll end up stumping out the money because you just don't seem to be able to reason with the council. I've even applied for a permit half a dozen times but because their offices are shut due to the pandemic I've had no replies to my applications or letters. If you can prove to the council that you've applied to them for the relevant permit, then surely they can't fine you for their tardiness in sending it to you? In Oxford a few years ago I got a bunch of tickets for parking in a residents only zone, and I successfully appealed them with a picture showing my car parked next to a post where the "permits only" sign had been vandalised and was not legible. I failed to win my appeal where I had written on the permit in pencil though! This: www.knowyourparkingrights.org/News/know-your-parking-and-traffic-signs implied that it would be OK to put signs at the entrance and exit of a zone without marking the road or putting up signs that apply to specific parking places, so it might be worth seeing if you can find that sort of sign. Also, their website (https://www.winchester.gov.uk/parking/residents-parking/residents-on-street-parking-permits ) says: That definitely implies that no sign means no zone.
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Aug 11, 2020 16:49:44 GMT
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Todos con Lorca
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ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 981
Club RR Member Number: 13
Member is Online
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Parking Finesferny
@ferny
Club Retro Rides Member 13
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Aug 11, 2020 16:50:26 GMT
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Out of interest.
How is it possible to repeatedly gain fines if the car hasn't moved? You can only park once if it's stayed where it is.
Same for speeding. Get caught by five cameras in a row and you've been caught once. Slow down for #3 but get caught by #4 and you've been caught twice.
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Aug 11, 2020 17:35:24 GMT
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I'd expect to see at least some signs,
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Parking Finesslater
@slater
Club Retro Rides Member 78
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Aug 11, 2020 18:19:52 GMT
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Is there a sign at the end of the street? There usually is in these cases. Not sure of the legality but I've been caught out by it before. Thinking no lines/bays means good to go.. Not always it appears.
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Parking Finesfr€$h&m1nt¥
@freshandminty
Club Retro Rides Member 99
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Aug 11, 2020 18:35:32 GMT
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Out of interest. How is it possible to repeatedly gain fines if the car hasn't moved? You can only park once if it's stayed where it is. Same for speeding. Get caught by five cameras in a row and you've been caught once. Slow down for #3 but get caught by #4 and you've been caught twice. I guess it’s different for parking otherwise you could say I was fined 6 months ago so I’ll carry on parking here now I’ve been fined once. There’s probably a one fine per 24 hour period clause.
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merryck
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 477
Club RR Member Number: 9
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Parking Finesmerryck
@merryck
Club Retro Rides Member 9
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Aug 11, 2020 19:14:26 GMT
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The only thing I think I know about parking regulations and Yellow lines is, for yellow lines to be valid they have to be unbroken and capped at the end. I was told of someone who got away with not paying a parking fine because a leaf was left on the road when the lines were painted, resulting in a leaf-shaped gap in the line, making it invalid. I don't know how true that is, but if it is true, then id imagine you wont have a fine to pay. I had a friend who got out of paying any fines for about 6 months because his car was parked there when they painted the lines. Every time he parked back there they'd ticket him and he'd just send off the same letter telling them they couldn't enforce it. This went on for ages until eventually one day the line painters got there while he was out and filled it in. I think he did it for the fun of it rather than anything else.
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merryck
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 477
Club RR Member Number: 9
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Parking Finesmerryck
@merryck
Club Retro Rides Member 9
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Aug 11, 2020 19:15:32 GMT
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Out of interest. How is it possible to repeatedly gain fines if the car hasn't moved? You can only park once if it's stayed where it is. Same for speeding. Get caught by five cameras in a row and you've been caught once. Slow down for #3 but get caught by #4 and you've been caught twice. They can fine you every 24 hours, I got hit by that once, I left my car somewhere for a weekend and ended up with four fines!
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Aug 11, 2020 19:24:45 GMT
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Out of interest. How is it possible to repeatedly gain fines if the car hasn't moved? You can only park once if it's stayed where it is. I'm not sure it works like that here, I've seen removal lorries pick up 10+ tickets in a day while they're loading peoples belongings into the back. Is there a sign at the end of the street? There usually is in these cases. Nope, no sign at either end of the street. I took the photos this morning just minutes after getting the latest ticket, and made sure you could see either end of the street in the photos. [There’s probably a one fine per 24 hour period clause. I hope so the last two tickets are only 23 hours and 51 minutes apart! I think duncanmartin may have hit the nail on the head when he spotted this little gem on the Winchester city council website... I think I'll print that out and put it in the letter with the photos of the car showing no signs of any parking restrictions
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brc76
RR Helper
Posts: 1,107
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Aug 11, 2020 20:15:19 GMT
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Very pretty too, quite dainty if a car can be that. Maybe it's a size thing.... in contrast to the giant refrigerator parked behind it? But yes well proportioned and just a nice design
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Aug 11, 2020 21:27:53 GMT
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There have to be signs surely!? I don't live in Winchester so if I visit how am I supposed to know where the parking permits apply or don't apply? doesn't make sense to have no signs or markings visible.
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skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,546
Club RR Member Number: 11
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Parking Finesskinnylew
@skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member 11
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Aug 12, 2020 13:57:04 GMT
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My gut feeling is that is it completely unenforceable without the correct signage and markings. These don't have to be outside every property but at least at the beginning and end of the zone.
We have some issues locally where it is permitted to park two wheels up on the pavements (in marked bays) in some streets but others not. Many a time people fall foul of this. Although pavement parking has been banned in London for nearly 40 years (except when instructed to do so!). Whenever these signs get damaged or hit they are replaced speedily as the tickets would be unenforceable!
Did they send you a letter notifying you of the change in zoning, have there been notices put up on lamp posts informing of the change in road category. There are legal frameworks through which everything must pass before you can declare a zone something different.
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