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Sept 3, 2020 13:57:37 GMT
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I'm considering buying a vehicle but I'm unsure about it's status.
DVLA tells me for historic status...
the vehicle was built or first registered more than 40 years ago
no ‘substantial changes’ have been made to the vehicle in the last 30 years, for example replacing the chassis, body, axles or engine to change the way the vehicle works
The vehicle was built in 1958, but it was imported from Ireland, in 2011 I think. Vehicle tax checker tells me it has a date of first registration as 2011.
Secondly, it has a different, bigger engine, the engine is from 1955. V5 has the current engine cc, not the original engine. The engine swap will have been done in the 60s or maybe the 70s.
So, it should qualify as historic. It may already be, seller hasn't responded to questions. Does the date of first registration suggest it's not currently historic?
How would you even prove when the modifications were done? Or do you just declare it was done historically?
It has it's original registration number (4 numbers, 2 letters, Irish?) so DVLA must know exactly what it is.
If the seller gets back to me they may be able to shed more light on this, but I may have to decide if I'm going to own it or not before they do.
It's also possible that the original log book was lost and it has been 're registered, but if that's the case, they still managed to keep the registration. The plate is period and it has an old tax disc.
Thanks.
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Last Edit: Sept 3, 2020 13:58:28 GMT by VW
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Sept 3, 2020 15:47:19 GMT
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Its based on when the vehicle was built not registered so don't see any issues there.
Also i don't think the engine matters for historic vehicle class. Thats just for the MOT exemption (it wont be exempt). You still get the tax free status even with modifications tho.
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Sept 3, 2020 16:07:49 GMT
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Its based on when the vehicle was built not registered so don't see any issues there. Also i don't think the engine matters for historic vehicle class. Thats just for the MOT exemption (it wont be exempt). You still get the tax free status even with modifications tho. Really? The gov site says it's mot exempt if it's over 40 years old and hasn't been modified 'in the last 30 year's'. This should qualify then. It was modified 50 or 60 years ago! Or do you thinking not mot exempt for a different reason?
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Last Edit: Sept 3, 2020 16:08:24 GMT by VW
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Sept 3, 2020 16:11:13 GMT
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Also says this...
they are changes of a type which can be demonstrated to have been made when vehicles of the type were in production or within 10 years of the end of production
When the changes were made both vehicles were within 10 years of production.
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Sept 3, 2020 16:37:16 GMT
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Got a response from the seller, it's down as historic on the v5
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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Sept 3, 2020 21:23:16 GMT
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There’s two seperate issues - historic class VED (“Road tax”) which you can get when the vehicle is 40 years old (in the April as it’s a budget exemption) and MOT exemption which is as soon as it’s 40 years old - as long as it’s a vehicle of historic interest “VHI” (ie not modified within the parameters stated).
The two exemptions are in no way related but just to confuse the issue they put historic in both titles and the online VHI declaration on the online VED renewal page!!!
So your example will be historic VED based on its age but may not be VHI if it’s modified (although it was years ago so just declare it VHI and make sure you have some evidence in case you’re ever questioned on the issue).
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Sept 3, 2020 22:12:30 GMT
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There’s two seperate issues - historic class VED (“Road tax”) which you can get when the vehicle is 40 years old (in the April as it’s a budget exemption) and MOT exemption which is as soon as it’s 40 years old - as long as it’s a vehicle of historic interest “VHI” (ie not modified within the parameters stated). The two exemptions are in no way related but just to confuse the issue they put historic in both titles and the online VHI declaration on the online VED renewal page!!!So your example will be historic VED based on its age but may not be VHI if it’s modified (although it was years ago so just declare it VHI and make sure you have some evidence in case you’re ever questioned on the issue). I'm aware the tax and mot situations are separate, but on the gov site about mot exemption it does say the vehicle has to not have been modified in the last 30 years, not that it can't be modified at all. I wasn't aware of that, I thought if it was modified it wouldn't be mot exempt. Seems that may not be the case.
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Sept 3, 2020 22:13:40 GMT
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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You might get away with the MOT if you can prove it was modified years back yeh.
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Copied from another forum. Hope it helps.
After seeing lots of cars for sale claiming 'mot exempt' just a quick reminder that if you have an engine which is not marque correct fitted ( ie Rover in a Ford) or was not a factory option then it is NOT MOT exempt and you will be making a false declaration to DVLA .
Only exemption to this is if you can PROVE it was done more than 30 years ago AND declared to DVLA at that time .
Also if pre '60 the MOT exemption doesn't work in the same way and is granted as a right WITHOUT a declaration
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82 Ford Bronco
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Copied from another forum. Hope it helps. After seeing lots of cars for sale claiming 'mot exempt' just a quick reminder that if you have an engine which is not marque correct fitted ( ie Rover in a Ford) or was not a factory option then it is NOT MOT exempt and you will be making a false declaration to DVLA . Only exemption to this is if you can PROVE it was done more than 30 years ago AND declared to DVLA at that time . Also if pre '60 the MOT exemption doesn't work in the same way and is granted as a right WITHOUT a declaration Good point about the engine change being declared at the time. Pretty sure the DVLA will have known about it. Also had not really twigged to the pre 1960 thing. I don't understand why pre 1960 is different, doesn't mention anything about modifications. The gov site also has (excluding motorcycles) written in the heading listing the substantial changes. It is a motorcycle I'm wondering about. I don't really understand all the ins and outs, but it certainly seems to me that one way or another it will be mot exempt. I guess it doesn't really matter anyway, motorcycle mot's tend to be pretty basic.
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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I wasn't aware of that, I thought if it was modified it wouldn't be mot exempt. Seems that may not be the case. Yep, you can modify it and still be MOT exempt. You can’t “substantially modify” it and claim MOT exemption. It can be “substantially modified” and MOT exempt - if it was done over 30 years ago etc,etc.
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Sorry for a bit of hijack and hopefully not confusing VW any more than he already is but does this mean i can import a modified car ...roof chop different engine and register it easily just have to mot it or would it need inspections and red tape as it wouldn't be mot exempt, would there be more issues than just not being exempt.
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Sept 4, 2020 20:27:32 GMT
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It would depend if it has a seperate chassis or not, if it doeent the roof chop would mean it will potentialy need an IVA.
I don't think the engine swap will be an issue.
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Sept 4, 2020 21:01:39 GMT
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so separate chassis body mods are no problem this is good to know and old car should be straight 6 old V8 conversion all good as well ...this is all really good news to me. Thank you kevins
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ftz313
Part of things
Posts: 221
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Sept 24, 2020 22:22:14 GMT
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Lots of people try & apply the registering a vehicle legislation to a vehicle that’s already registered (there is currently no need to reregister a vehicle). Notifiable changes are listed on the v5 & are colour, engine size, fuel etc. Also don’t listen to all the hearsay on mot exemption. You can fit a more efficient engine, better brakes, steering etc & all still be mot exempt. This comes under the caveat ‘ axles and running gear have been changed to improve efficiency, safety or environmental performance ’ Note the change is only to make it better. Fitting a gas guzzler carb fed to say a 79 golf gti would be a backwards step ! However the vehicle must still be roadworthy. This all applies to pre 2003ish vehicles as that’s when type approval came out & the type approval legislation can’t be retrospectively applied. (Says this in that legislation). Admittedly it is hugely confusing & a lot of people rely on what others interpret it as so much advice is satisfy yourself on your understanding of it all. Make yourself familiar with the legislation (some people will try & quote the previous proposed legislation sadly). www.gov.uk/government/publications/historic-classic-vehicles-mot-exemption-criteria/historic-classic-vehicles-mot-exemption-criteria#substantial-changes
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Sept 25, 2020 8:30:56 GMT
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You were wrong last time you were here and you're still wrong.
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-( 2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap V8 Humber Hawk 1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD 1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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Paul Y
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,948
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Sept 25, 2020 8:37:15 GMT
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Just take it for an MOT. Cant see a problem. P.
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Sept 25, 2020 8:43:00 GMT
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Yup. Re-reading the original post an MOT is all that's needed.
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-( 2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap V8 Humber Hawk 1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD 1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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Sept 25, 2020 9:44:57 GMT
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I didn't buy it in the end anyway, but the Info is still good to have Thanks.
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