Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo in need of some love

[jiggawhat2k]

Bought a new project as the Herald is up and running, plan was to find something more modern with a turbo, or buy something and turbo it. Spent ages looking at newer civics but couldn't get excited. Then found the coupe on Ebay and that was it. 

A silver one came up and I bid but it didn't hit the reserve and wasn't sold, the owner (nice chap) contacted me with an offer, we went back and forth a bit and did a deal.

Bought it unseen and got it trucked down to me. 

Was a bargain considering it has an mot, no such thing as a cheap Italian turbo car tho... 

It's a s**tbox, but will be a fun car to work on and learn how this turbo stuff all works. 

Spec/mods/issues:

- 150k miles, hard track-day miles (there is some exhaust damage from when he came off the track) 
- Uprated turbo apparently. Except it isn't uprated, looks like its running the original still
- Whatever the turbo is, it's blown. Blue smoke puffing away (I knew that when I got it) 
- ABS light on
- Door card falling off
- No stereo 
- Passenger door central locking does whatever it wants (except lock) 
- Rusty arches 
- Lacquer peel on roof and bonnet
- Nightmarish tinted rear lights
- Lots of spares and a spare set of original wheels refurbed in gun metal grey and good tyres
- Pretty much no history apart from the last owner
- No idea when cam belt was done
- Dump valve (basically why I bought it) 
- Floor had welding for mot in Feb. Lots of welding. Good news (cos it's done already) 
- Engine sits at perfect oil pressure despite the miles 
- Questionable rocker cover paint in red (to make it look like the later limited models) 
- Other bits of cosmetic crust underneath but basically solid
- Door paint on one side doesn't quite match. Also covered in drinks, and a weird ripple in the roof
- Stainless Steel exhaust system and new cat. Dented due to track day (with exhaust leak) 
- Actually a decent interior 

Only driven it once, got scared the turbo would blow and trash the engine. 

But wow its fast, like modern fast. Nothing happens till 3k rpm then off you go all the way to 7k, its as fast as I'd ever need where I live (lots of traffic). The 5 cylinder sounds meaty and rally car, already I love it so much. 

Bought a turbo off a coupe breaking on ebay for not much. 

Then drive it straight to a specialist to get the cam belt and water pump done (not as expensive as the internet tells me, it can actually be done without removing the engine). 

Then boost gauge (got a nice looking Stack jobbie), GTEC chip (coupe forum rates them, super cheap and bumps up boost to 1.2 bar and more fuel. Simple to install I think). 

A deep clean (the gear knob was the most disgusting I ever saw) and new knob, new bonnet struts, stereo. 

Will get arches done, then decide if I sort dinks and wrap it (the original silver), or get it painted, or just leave the rest as it is. 

It'll never be a mint car, it's had to hard a life, but I'll make it look a bit cleaner and drive it hard without worrying about value etc and fix as I go. 

[keithyboy]

I loved these when they were launched. One of my neighbours had a yellow one. Still love them now.

[Mercdan68]

I too have a secret like for these
I had one offered to about five years at £300
I still kick myself I should of bought the car
Great looking and as with all Italian cars great design
Good luck with it

[georgeb]

Sept 16, 2020 7:10:13 GMT keithyboy said:

I loved these when they were launched. One of my neighbours had a yellow one. Still love them now.

Totally the opposite and disliked them when they were new but, over the years that's mellowed and I reckon they look pretty cool now.

A pal in the village where I lived bought one and reckoned it was about the most fun per pound you could put on the road.

Look forward to seeing the progress.

[fr€$h&m1nt¥]

I was behind one of these on the back of a truck early on Saturday morning - I think I was around Daventry area on the A45 by that point if not might have been earlier on on the A5 or A38 - It might have been yours?


Any way I remember thinking how you don't see them any more and how popular the recessed rear light units were for modifiers in the early 2000s for adding them to other cars.

Good luck with it.

[duncanmartin]

These are really good cars. The handling isn't quite up with the best in class (of the time) because it's built on the Tipo platform, but with the Turbo engines they really shift and (economy aside) they are surprisingly practical (comfortable, space in back, decent boot). I tend to think of them as a GT car rather than a sports car.
I had a 16VT in the mid 2000s that had a strange intermittent missfire, but was otherwise utterly awesome. Sadly I sold it when I needed to commute 75 miles a day. When I bought it I really wanted a 20VT but couldn't afford a good one then, and now they seem to have gone to the point where there are no middling ones - either super shiny ones for serious cash or projects. There was a really good coupe owners club back then and the website, forum etc appears to still be there - www.fiatcoupeclub.org/ might be useful for parts or advice.

[paulmakin]

I'm on my 4th now = previously had a NA 20V, then a 16VT, then a NA 16V and now a 20VT (keeper).

i'm sure you know but just in case - when you send it for the belts, get the CHOD done at the same time unless you know it's been swapped previously.

My current example was a little overdue for belts when i got it. 14 years if the service book is accurate. engine removal is definitely not required and, as you've found, not as financially devastating as the internet would have you believe. mine fought me very inch and nut and bolt of the way, even had to grind the bottom pulley off, so i suspect that 14 years between changes was right.

most stuff can be got from the bay of dreams and even from Fiat themselves. 20VT rads are cast in unobtanium but there's a couple of regulars on that auction site who can supply most other things used

paul

[jiggawhat2k]

Sept 16, 2020 8:15:42 GMT fr€$h&m1nt¥ said:

I was behind one of these on the back of a truck early on Saturday morning - I think I was around Daventry area on the A45 by that point if not might have been earlier on on the A5 or A38 - It might have been yours?


Any way I remember thinking how you don't see them any more and how popular the recessed rear light units were for modifiers in the early 2000s for adding them to other cars.

Good luck with it.

Could well have been, I got it trucked down to me. Cheers, the parts are piling up, nearly time to start pulling it apart!

[jiggawhat2k]

Sept 16, 2020 8:37:53 GMT duncanmartin said:

These are really good cars. The handling isn't quite up with the best in class (of the time) because it's built on the Tipo platform, but with the Turbo engines they really shift and (economy aside) they are surprisingly practical (comfortable, space in back, decent boot). I tend to think of them as a GT car rather than a sports car.
I had a 16VT in the mid 2000s that had a strange intermittent missfire, but was otherwise utterly awesome. Sadly I sold it when I needed to commute 75 miles a day. When I bought it I really wanted a 20VT but couldn't afford a good one then, and now they seem to have gone to the point where there are no middling ones - either super shiny ones for serious cash or projects. There was a really good coupe owners club back then and the website, forum etc appears to still be there - www.fiatcoupeclub.org/ might be useful for parts or advice.

Cheers yep that forum is turning out to be really useful, so much knowledge.

[jiggawhat2k]

Sept 16, 2020 21:32:40 GMT paulmakin said:

I'm on my 4th now = previously had a NA 20V, then a 16VT, then a NA 16V and now a 20VT (keeper).

i'm sure you know but just in case - when you send it for the belts, get the CHOD done at the same time unless you know it's been swapped previously.

My current example was a little overdue for belts when i got it. 14 years if the service book is accurate. engine removal is definitely not required and, as you've found, not as financially devastating as the internet would have you believe. mine fought me very inch and nut and bolt of the way, even had to grind the bottom pulley off, so i suspect that 14 years between changes was right.

most stuff can be got from the bay of dreams and even from Fiat themselves. 20VT rads are cast in unobtanium but there's a couple of regulars on that auction site who can supply most other things used

paul

Thanks, that hose I'm pretty sure hasn't been done so good point.

Found a few being broken at the moment so gonna stock up on a few bits that seem hard to get hold of (mine has a pretty new looking rad so that's good)

[jiggawhat2k]

Finally got the coupe back home from my mate's driveway. Awesome drive back (first proper run I've done), blue smoke isn't ideal but pulls really hard. Doesn't feel standard, I was told it had some goodies but it has almost no history. 



Had a bit more of a look around, not got under it yet so I'm sure it'll reveal plenty of horrors. 

Issues found so far (there will be more)... 

Turbo on the way out
Blowing exhaust, not bad tho (previous owner banged it going off on a track day) 
2 mismatching front tyres
No evidence of cam belt being done recently (or ever) 
Passenger door central locking doesn't work 
Interior blower/aircon doesn't do anything, no air even coming in 
Damaged interior to the painted section on dash (covered by a badge glued on. Wtf!) 
Sticky centre console 
Gearknob is rank 
Passenger front seat doesn't lock in place, slides around 
Set of dash buttons pushed in, broken off the console 
Driver door card hanging off, possibly due to door not hanging right
No stereo 
Alarm seems to have been removed, no immobiliser issues yet
Broken bonnet latch handle (my fault, yanked it like an idiot) 
Bonnet struts are busted
Rust on rear arches
One door looks a different colour to the rest of the body
Lacquer peel on roof and a bit on the bonnet
Awful aftermarket spoiler stuck on with nightmarish glue, partially broken off
Rear lights and indicators painted with nasty dark tint 
Indicator doesn't self cancel when turning right
It has moss growing on it
Headline just starting to sag in a few places 
Petrol cap has a different key, that I've not got. Doesn't lock anyway so all good
Boot lock doesn't work with my key, have to open from interior 
Clutch is pretty high

Good things tho! 

Makes choo choo noises
Nice looking aftermarket exhaust manifold 
Exhaust sounds great 
Leather seats are excellent 
Just feels solid, engine is so cool

Gonna just do it bit by bit, keep it on the road. Next jobs are turbo (got a replacement from a breaking car), bonnet struts, interior blower, cam belt, boost gauge, bin the airbox for an indication kit, stereo. 

[legend]

brilliant cars, i did 100k in my 20vt, wish I never sold it, but I needed more seats

[duncanmartin]

All old fiat buttons (well all soft-touch plastics) do that. It's a feature not a bug.
The turbo and the cambelt are the key things to do - if either fails properly then it's basically scrap. If you have to daily it then I could understand doing the interior bits and the bonnet struts, but if it's a project while you daily something else then I think you need to look at the arches next as they are the other thing on your list that would make the car uneconomical to repair if left unattended. Cool car though, and the engines are awesome.

[legend]

i want another one, but the rust does put me off. turbo went on mine, made proper smoke screens

my mate fitted a bigger turbo as a replacement and it was really fast. turning circle was the biggest ball ache.

[paulplom]

Nice to see it being brought back from the brink.
I test drove one back in the day, it was properly rapid. I can't remember why I didn't buy it though. Probably all out of my price range now and it's years since I've seen one on the road.

[dazvr6]

Oct 5, 2020 10:49:59 GMT duncanmartin said:

All old fiat buttons (well all soft-touch plastics) do that. It's a feature not a bug.
The turbo and the cambelt are the key things to do - if either fails properly then it's basically scrap. If you have to daily it then I could understand doing the interior bits and the bonnet struts, but if it's a project while you daily something else then I think you need to look at the arches next as they are the other thing on your list that would make the car uneconomical to repair if left unattended. Cool car though, and the engines are awesome.

Definitely look carefully where the rear arch meets the sills and in the boot where the floor meets the inner arches.
The sills look like they are starting to go and it can get expensive quite quickly unless you can weld. I've had 3 of these and all of them have had a bit in the boot. Great fun car though and they sound fantastic.

[jiggawhat2k]

Oct 5, 2020 10:49:59 GMT duncanmartin said:

All old fiat buttons (well all soft-touch plastics) do that. It's a feature not a bug.
The turbo and the cambelt are the key things to do - if either fails properly then it's basically scrap. If you have to daily it then I could understand doing the interior bits and the bonnet struts, but if it's a project while you daily something else then I think you need to look at the arches next as they are the other thing on your list that would make the car uneconomical to repair if left unattended. Cool car though, and the engines are awesome.

Haha noted, found a much less sticky one on ebay so I'll be having a crack at it with nail varnish remover which the internet told me will work. We'll see! 

[jiggawhat2k]

Nov 9, 2020 11:11:50 GMT legend said:

i want another one, but the rust does put me off. turbo went on mine, made proper smoke screens

my mate fitted a bigger turbo as a replacement and it was really fast. turning circle was the biggest ball ache.

I've only driven it twice and both with Bond-style smoke pouring out, bought a rebuilt hybrid again off ebay with this cartridge fitted, so should be a nice upgrade. www.turborebuild.co.uk/webshop/prod_5485439-Fiat-Coupe-20V-Stage-1-HYBRID-Turbo-CHRA-Cartridge-454154-Turbocharger-TB2810.html

I didn't believe what I read about turning circle, I mean who really cares? Thought that right up until I tried to do a quick u turn, surrounded by oil smoke while I held up traffic. All makes more sense now... 

[jiggawhat2k]

Nov 13, 2020 15:25:07 GMT dazvr6 said:

Oct 5, 2020 10:49:59 GMT duncanmartin said:

All old fiat buttons (well all soft-touch plastics) do that. It's a feature not a bug.
The turbo and the cambelt are the key things to do - if either fails properly then it's basically scrap. If you have to daily it then I could understand doing the interior bits and the bonnet struts, but if it's a project while you daily something else then I think you need to look at the arches next as they are the other thing on your list that would make the car uneconomical to repair if left unattended. Cool car though, and the engines are awesome.

Definitely look carefully where the rear arch meets the sills and in the boot where the floor meets the inner arches.
The sills look like they are starting to go and it can get expensive quite quickly unless you can weld. I've had 3 of these and all of them have had a bit in the boot. Great fun car though and they sound fantastic.

Hmmm best check the boot then, have had a nose around and the underneath looks solid and recently repaired so that's something positive at least! 

[jiggawhat2k]

Finally made some good progress on the coupe, now that the weather is closing in I want the Triumph off the road, not because I'm worried about rust but more because it's old and dangerous, the heater sucks and generally it won't be a great place to be in the winter.

So the fiat is going to be the winter hack! A rusty coupe as a winter car you say? Well I've bought it now so may as well give it a go... We do have a family car so it's not really a daily, but i can't not drive a fun car all winter. 

With the help of a friend, we got the blown turbo out. Been spraying the bolts every few days for 2 weeks, and by some miracle no bolts snapped. The turbo came out fairly easily, took us maybe 2 hours. Followed this excellent guide which helped. tdkj.co.uk/coupe/Turbo_Replacement_20vt.htm

The good thing about an unloved modified car is that a lot of the time there are bits missing already, which speeds things up. No under tray and no turbo heat shield, excellent! Will buy a heat shield, if I can find an undertray then that'll be another thing to do (hard to find though these days). 

There is oil in the intercooler piping so the turbo must really have been b*ggered. I've picked up a 2nd hand replacement off ebay for £30 which I'll clean up. Much better to start off with a clean intake I think. 

Ran out of light so we gave up, next weekend the new hybrid goes in. It's a lovely looking thing, never been used and built by what I believe is an alright place (although I could be wrong!!). 

Since then I've gotten under it to have a poke around with a screw driver and see whether I should put some money into it, or just keep it running enough to be in the road until it dies. The floor has had recent work and it looks decent, been painted in fresh stone chip and generally looks good. I'm pleased! Think I'll be in for the long haul. 

The arches are definitely going and need attention, the back sill is getting a light crust too. Gave it an aggressive spray of rust converter for now, hopefully it'll slow until I get around to having it done. It works on the Herald (yes I know the Herald doesn't have to get an mot so anything works on it). 

The exhaust is loose, just needs some tightening. It took a bash from where it went off at a track day (previous owner) but apart from a dent, it looks good. 

Thought I'd give some interior bits a tidy up. First was to tackle the cr*p pininfarina badge someone stuck on the lovely coloured interior. With this nightmare epoxy, why would they do that!! Ffs. Popped it off, then went at it with a dremel. Hateful stuff, managed to get it in better shape so it doesn't offend my eyes (it's directly ahead of my eyes). I'll decide whether to remove the strip and repaint it, or maybe I'll just put the phone mount there and cover it up that way... 

The original gear knob is so crusty, the hand slime of 17 previous owners covering it. So much cheese if you ran your nail over the leather it left a white line. Put a Richbrook knob in as it came recommended by other coupe owners, went on no drama and looks nice I reckon. I do like the original design but finding a good condition undiseased one is impossible, one day maybe I'll get the original retrimmed. Low priority now though.

Another annoying 'feature' of this coupe is a totally non functioning heater/aircon fan, so you fog up the windscreen unless you drive with the windows open (not great in winter in the UK). Checked the fuse, not blown, changed it anyway. 

Thought I'd take a look behind the heater controls console, luckily it's barely attached anyway. Removed it, unplugged any bits that have plugs, and had a look. What a mess... 

The plastic has gone brittle and the places where screws attach various bits to the console have all broken, so someone has glue gunned it all together. Which hasn't worked, because the emergency blinkers button and fog light button were totally pushed in. 

Tried to bodge it myself but couldn't bring myself to do the superglue and rubber fuel hose repair I was going to do. Surely I'm better than that (I'm not). Instead I'm working on sourcing a replacement console and all the relevant bits, so I can put if back properly.

Then we'll see if it is the switch that is busted (it is in a mess so could well be). The internets also tells me that I'm being hopeful and it's probably wiring to the fuse box/ecu. I'll replace the wiring if the replacement heater switches doesn't work.

Last job was to drop the oil ready for a fresh dose with the new turbo. Alas, the plug is stuck hard, it's a hex bolt which I think is 9mm, I only had an 8mm and a 10mm and worried about rounding it. Tried heating around the bolt and using mole grips and a pipe, but no luck. Will pick up a 9mm hex and give it another go with an impact gun. Any tips on removing a sump plug greatly received! Makes m



So far I'm enjoying working on it, there isn't much space and it's all a bit modern and complicated (with the Triumph I just hit things with a hammer) but it's getting under my skin for sure. There's enough information out there to help with fixes too, essential for a bodge artist like me. 

Next will be getting the turbo on, the dash/heater sorted, then start using it until I've got the cash together for a cambelt change this winter.