Motorbike engines in cars - Why do it?

[elfman]

Bike engine and such a light good handling car, great combination..
Who needs reverse so easy to push back..but electric version not to hard to fit to go backwards..
Is that then classed as a Hybrid ? lol

[pseudonymous]

Why not?!

[Ritchie]

I'm sure some are better than others but a few years ago I drove my mates brand new Hayabusa Westfield.
It was farking horrible, harsh, too loud, on/off clutch and a gearshift that felt brutal.
You couldn't drive it with any sort of mechanical sympathy and had to bang it into gear, I feel it's something to do with the heavier car having more momentum than the bike which makes it hard on the box. I could be talking shoite though.
That car in the original post is lovely though, and after riding 150-200bhp superbikes flat out everywhere for years I can certainly see the appeal.
I actually own an imported CBR250 4 cylinder 4 stroke which redlines at 18000rpm and sounds like an F1 car! Not powerful enough to stuff in a car though.
Maybe measures can be taken to try and make one more road friendly and easier to drive that my pals Westie.

[elfman]

I think a lot mount them solid in the chassis like in the bikes and for a race car its a good way to go but as you said in a road car its a different kettle of fish..
If its mounted on rubber mounts i would think it would make a difference but still quite frantic in many ways..same for the exhaust etc just try to insulate it a touch. And putting it in the rear of the car will also help leaving some of the noise behind you.
I'm just learning about bike engines and they fascinate me regarding the size, weight and power they seem to be built like swiss watches.

[Ritchie]

To give you an idea of scale, this is a 10mm spanner..

[metalshapes]

Mine is not done yet, so we'll see how good it works.

Seems to me, the drawbacks of most bike engines in cars are chaindrive, lack of reverse, possible weak ( wet ) clutch, possible weak transmission ( worse if it is in the same casting ), possible oiling problems at high cornering forces because you don't lean a car into the corner.

So I looked for a bike engine that could work with a regular dry clutch, and with a separate gearbox so I could mate it to a Hewland Mk9.

That solved all the clutch, reverse, & strength issues ( hopefully ).

Also the Hewland gives all the ratio options I could ever want, and it is a straight cut dog box with a internal diff and LSD.

Engine wise the possible options were Moto Guzzi ( rare, so more expensive ), Harley ( scene tax, and needs a expensive adapter to run a regular dry clutch ), Goldwing (good availability ), or BMW K1200RS ( good availablity, cheap, strong, good for high mileage )

I chose the K1200RS.

I modified the oilpan by making it deeper, and included baffles and trapdoors to cope with cornering forces.

At 130Hp the car will have about twice the power it had before ( before I turbo it )

The engine is a little heavier than the one it replaced ( a 1000cc Abarth ), but the Hewland is a lot heavier than the one it replaced ( Fiat 600 ).

And I went from rear engined to mid engined.

The car will have a lot more aero than it had before and things like the rear suspension are made to work with the aero requirements, not the other way around.

All in all a big project, and I'm still working on it...

[metalshapes]

forum.retro-rides.org/thread/194348/1968-fiat-500

[ovimor]

As prices fall/crashed/parting out happens....

.... I wonder if those 'get you home / petrol genny EV power packs' will be repurposed into a LoCost with electric traction?

Another example of "well, because I can!"


OVIMOR

[60six]

Sept 20, 2020 15:54:23 GMT Ritchie said:

To give you an idea of scale, this is a 10mm spanner..

So if the engine is that small, could it be adapted to fit on a lawn mower? Need to get the job done a bit quicker.

[mr2fc]

The blades won't cut if the front wheels are off the floor!

[bstardchild]

Sept 20, 2020 22:37:12 GMT metalshapes said:

Mine is not done yet, so we'll see how good it works.

Seems to me, the drawbacks of most bike engines in cars are chaindrive, lack of reverse, possible weak ( wet ) clutch, possible weak transmission ( worse if it is in the same casting ), possible oiling problems at high cornering forces because you don't lean a car into the corner.

So I looked for a bike engine that could work with a regular dry clutch, and with a separate gearbox so I could mate it to a Hewland Mk9.

That solved all the clutch, reverse, & strength issues ( hopefully ).

Also the Hewland gives all the ratio options I could ever want, and it is a straight cut dog box with a internal diff and LSD.

Engine wise the possible options were Moto Guzzi ( rare, so more expensive ), Harley ( scene tax, and needs a expensive adapter to run a regular dry clutch ), Goldwing (good availability ), or BMW K1200RS ( good availablity, cheap, strong, good for high mileage )

I chose the K1200RS.

I modified the oilpan by making it deeper, and included baffles and trapdoors to cope with cornering forces.

At 130Hp the car will have about twice the power it had before ( before I turbo it )

The engine is a little heavier than the one it replaced ( a 1000cc Abarth ), but the Hewland is a lot heavier than the one it replaced ( Fiat 600 ).

And I went from rear engined to mid engined.

The car will have a lot more aero than it had before and things like the rear suspension are made to work with the aero requirements, not the other way around.

All in all a big project, and I'm still working on it...

Makes a change to see the whole engine used - most seem to be robbed for the heads for 16V A series conversions

I have a K1200RS Motorcycle and I reckon it will make a very good engine

It has lots of grunt - top gear I can take it down to 15mph and pull away smoothly
Doesn't rev stupidly high (8000 rpm ish)

I reckon that will go nicely - better still you have't had to use the std BMW gearbox which always sounds like a kenwood mixer with rocks in it

[ovimor]

K1200 does grand work in the IMP

Whooooshhh [+163%] !!!

images.app.goo.gl/ukyAd6xcNXp3bTsf8

retro-motoring.com/events/RetroRidesGathering-2017/picviewer.php?file=IMG_1216


OVIMOR

[yoeddynz]

oooohhhh I reckon an engine from a honda goldwing motorbike would be neat in a small car (said the man pi$$ing about looking at buying a micra and not finishing his proper project )

[elfman]

Yes I agree there are some really great bike engines about...

[slater]

K1200 into an Imp is a common one.

The BMW motors work well because they come from a tourer style bike rather than a more race orientated 'superbike' the BMW engines/heads with the LT cams are entirely road sensible. The same cant be said for some other bike engines which are just too peaky.

[Thanatos]

This may be a stupid question, is there a way to put more silencers in to make it quieter or would it would it affect power??

[VW]

Bikes are very fussy about exhausts. Small exhaust changes tend to mean dyno set up and 're jetting.

[elfman]

Sept 27, 2020 8:32:10 GMT VW said:

Bikes are very fussy about exhausts. Small exhaust changes tend to mean dyno set up and 're jetting.

yes i agree ,  once the motor is in a car a few small things change so a dyno run is a very good idea .. 

[metalshapes]

Sept 27, 2020 9:10:50 GMT elfman said:

Sept 27, 2020 8:32:10 GMT VW said:

Bikes are very fussy about exhausts. Small exhaust changes tend to mean dyno set up and 're jetting.

yes i agree ,  once the motor is in a car a few small things change so a dyno run is a very good idea .. 

That is the plan.

I have to change the airbox for clearance ( so whatever shockwave tuning they did at the factory will be disrupted )

And I made a new exhaust manifold which I will run without a cat or muffler.

I bought a controller that should help with remapping it.

Apparently a good remap on a K1200RS is worth quite a bit of HP.


But if any of that doesn't work for whatever reason, plan B is to put twin Webers on it. ( cause I can tune those myself with a wideband.)

[bstardchild]

Sept 28, 2020 12:57:05 GMT metalshapes said:

Sept 27, 2020 9:10:50 GMT elfman said:

yes i agree ,  once the motor is in a car a few small things change so a dyno run is a very good idea .. 

That is the plan.

I have to change the airbox for clearance ( so whatever shockwave tuning they did at the factory will be disrupted )

And I made a new exhaust manifold which I will run without a cat or muffler.

I bought a controller that should help with remapping it.

Apparently a good remap on a K1200RS is worth quite a bit of HP.


But if any of that doesn't work for whatever reason, plan B is to put twin Webers on it. ( cause I can tune those myself with a wideband.)

On a 22 year old 100 K miles K1200RS the only mod I did was ditch the cat and put a freer flowing muffler on it and it made just over 130 bhp on the dyno which equated to stock bhp when new