gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Cheap Injector cleaner/tester?gryphon
@gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member 157
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Nov 18, 2020 10:33:31 GMT
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When I rebuilt the AJ30 V6 that's now in my MX5, the donor engine didn't come with injectors, I bought a used set and plonked them in on the basis that if the engine ran, I'd then get them serviced and flow tested. I did do a brief test firing them into jars - visually the spray patterns looked fine, volumes looked very similar. Good enough. The engine runs pretty well, but has a cold start issue where it starts, bogs, and doesn't run on all cylinders until a solid blip of the throttle clears it up. My suspicion is a sticky injector, so time to get them serviced. Actually I've bought a new used set to get cleaned up (£25, seemed stupid not to) so that the car stays running. Looking at injector cleaning and testing quotes, £15-£20 per injector seems the ballpark figure, so around £100 - £130 once postage is factored in. Alternatively, a Cheap 4 injector cleaner and tester is around £200 from here: vevor.co.uk/products/ct150-auto-fuel-injector-cleaner-tester-cleaning-tank-petrol-siemens-pumGiven that I could potentially clean and sell (assuming good) my current set of injectors, then I have a couple of MX5 injector sets that could probably benefit from a clean, I can see it paying for itself pretty quickly. Has anyone had any experience with them? Are they just going to be useless? Thanks all
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Nov 18, 2020 11:06:12 GMT
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Interesting, I have almost exactly the same issue with my range rover with it's ancient 1980's Lucas flapper system , it starts perfectly but won't initially pick up under load, if you rev it in neutral it chucks out loads of fuely smoke then runs OK, One thing i have noticed is the fuel pressure disappears as soon as I key off, I'm assuming at least one of the injectors leaks. I've also bought a secondhand set for £25, given re-manufactured the injectors for this are around £100 each I need to find a cheaper way to test and clean them.
I have lying around a high pressure pump, and regulator so was thinking of building my own test rig, just need to work out what to use for fluid to pump through them to clean them internally. Ultrasonic will clean them nicely externally But I don't think it will do much internally.
Mr injector do the seals and filters etc.
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Nov 18, 2020 11:51:16 GMT
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Looks tempting. I’ve been thinking of making one but at that price it’s barely worth it.
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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TessierAshpool
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 507
Club RR Member Number: 168
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Cheap Injector cleaner/tester?TessierAshpool
@tessierashpool
Club Retro Rides Member 168
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Nov 18, 2020 12:39:00 GMT
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Dunno if you are familiar with Mighty Car Mods, but Benny whose been on there a few times has an almost idential one and talked about it quite a bit on a recent video - see video below from about 12 mins in until about 16 minutes in.
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Cheap Injector cleaner/tester?gryphon
@gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member 157
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Nov 18, 2020 13:08:32 GMT
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I have lying around a high pressure pump, and regulator so was thinking of building my own test rig, just need to work out what to use for fluid to pump through them to clean them internally. Ultrasonic will clean them nicely externally But I don't think it will do much internally. Mr injector do the seals and filters etc. Good point on the seals and filters. I need to work out what to clean them in/with too. A bottle or two of cheap injector cleaner possibly... Worried that stronger stuff such as a TFR solution would damage the internals. I need a scrap injector to pull apart and experiment with.Looks tempting. I’ve been thinking of making one but at that price it’s barely worth it. Nick Agreed, I don't have much of what I'd need lying around, and I'd like to have an ultrasonic cleaner anyway... Considering the time it would take too, that machine looks well worth a punt. TessierAshpool I hadn't seen that video, thanks. I'll have a watch after work!
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Nov 18, 2020 14:13:05 GMT
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Downside.....
Reviews of Vevor, the vendor, are about as bad as I’ve seen anywhere......
Maybe there is another source ....
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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rodharris83
Club Retro Rides Member
Day Dreamer...
Posts: 759
Club RR Member Number: 4
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Nov 18, 2020 14:40:36 GMT
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Cheap Injector cleaner/tester?gryphon
@gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member 157
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There are a few sources for them - I just put a link to the first one Google showed. Ebay tends to be my go-to for cheap rubbish!
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Nov 20, 2020 11:37:38 GMT
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Interesting.....
Looks better than one might hope at the price....
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Nov 20, 2020 11:52:53 GMT
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And another.....
Big bro CT200 6 pot version I think.
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Cheap Injector cleaner/tester?gryphon
@gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member 157
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Nov 20, 2020 13:30:09 GMT
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They do look pretty good. The 150 is actually pretty compact too - I had thought it was bigger!
Who's going to be the guinea pig and buy one then?!
I might see if there are any black friday deals I can take advantage of...
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Nov 20, 2020 15:08:08 GMT
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Who's going to be the guinea pig and buy one then?! I might see if there are any black friday deals I can take advantage of... Err..... that would be me then...... pulled the trigger about half an hour ago...... Have two diy EFI cars in the family running injectors with, errr extensive previous experience, plus a fairly large pile of alternative injectors. I’ve been wanting to clean/ test a set for my Vitesse for a long time. If I sent a set of 6 off to any of the online cleaning services I’d be spending 2/3 of the cost anyway. Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Nov 20, 2020 17:27:09 GMT
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I've read the on bumph on line about these but nowhere does it say that the injector voltage can be changed, I guess to use it on older ballasted injectors I would need to wire in a resistor?
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Nov 20, 2020 19:44:02 GMT
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Yes, I reckon you would for low impedance injectors. There used to be a useful how to on the MS form for that.
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Cheap Injector cleaner/tester?gryphon
@gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member 157
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Nov 22, 2020 10:50:56 GMT
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Err..... that would be me then...... pulled the trigger about half an hour ago......
Looking forward to seeing what you think. Did you go for the 150 or the 200?
The main thing holding me back is finding space for another thing that I'll not use that often! But I have just committed to rebuilding a 1.8 mx5 engine for a supercharger, and have 4 maybe genuine RX8 Injectors of unknown providence that would have to be sent off as well as my 6 for the V6.
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Last Edit: Nov 22, 2020 10:51:54 GMT by gryphon
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Nov 22, 2020 13:11:38 GMT
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I went for the 150 even though most of my cars are sixes......
Partly because I’m cheap and partly because it’s smaller and easier to house. Just means the process will take a little longer.
In the unlikely event I decide to go into business doing cut price cleaning and flogging used sets of cleaned, flowmatched sets on eBay then further investment may be needed.
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Cheap Injector cleaner/tester?gryphon
@gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member 157
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Dec 23, 2020 19:53:22 GMT
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I bit the bullet, mine arrived a couple of weeks ago - although it's sat in its box waiting for me to play with it until today.
First impressions - solidly built and it all feels surprisingly good quality - only flimsy bit really is drain tap for the ultrasonic bath. There were a few slithers of metal left from machining in a couple of the injector adapters, I cleaned everything out with cotton buds before using it.
It's also more compact than I expected, which is nice. Above it has 4 of the used, untested Jag injectors in it, fresh from eBay.
I wasn't sure what to fill it up with, or how much I'd need. I'll experiment as I go, but Injector cleaner felt like a good starting point, and I bought 6x300ml bottles of it for <£20
Filling it up, the ultrasonic bath took around 300ml to get to a decent height for injectors sitting in the support tray, and a further 1200ml into the main tank. I poured the cleaner in through one of the measuring tubes and out of curiosity measured how much one can had in it... According to Autool, each 300ml can contains only 260ml! I suspect that can is more accurate than the measuring tubes, but the difference was interesting. As you only really need relative readings to compare injectors it's not really an issue... If you need to calculate the flow rate, more of an issue.
On first start up, the pump wouldn't build pressure with all the injectors in place. Seems it needed to run for a couple of seconds without the injectors (no back pressure) to prime itself before being run with injectors.
I figured I'd test the injectors before cleaning them to see if it made a difference, so I set it going with an idle test... Good job too!
(The display has a bit of a flicker, and really doesn't photo or video well - looks fine in person)
Only the left most injector was firing! Swapping the leads around showed that they were all supposed to be firing, but three of them were stuck. Hmm, there might have been a reason these injectors were cheap...
Next up, ultrasonic cleaning. As well as the ultrasonic bath, it pulses the injectors 1s open 1s closed.
The bath heats itself too, not sure if that's waste heat from the ultrasonic transponder or if there's a heating element under it.
10 minutes later, ready to test again:
Success - 4 firing injectors! I'm pleasantly surprised. As you can see above, left to right, 1 flows a little low, 2 a little high, 3 and 4 are pretty even. Unfortunately the spray pattern on all of them is a little poor - 2 jets of fuel rather than any good atomisation. Haven't worked out if there's anything I can do about that yet.
Next up were 4 RX8 injectors, destined for a supercharged MX5. These injectors have slimmer necks, and the tester didn't come with the right adapter for them. I made it work but it was a little bodgey, sealing on a larger ring a little way down the injector rather than the top o-ring. Also made it impossible to remove the injectors without spilling injector cleaner everywhere.
I haven't worked out percentages yet, but those look pretty close to me I put them through the ultrasonic but didn't really see much difference before and after, I don't think they needed it. The atomisation was far better than the Jag injectors too.
Here's a rather cool 1/8th slomo video of the injectors firing on the 'idle' test. Each fire sounds like a gunshot!
So far so good, I'm happy with it! It's not perfect, but it's not cheap Chinese curse word either.
Looking forward to seeing what the injectors currently in the car test like.
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Last Edit: Dec 23, 2020 20:01:48 GMT by gryphon
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Dec 23, 2020 23:04:51 GMT
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Cool! Well done for cracking on and actually using it!
Mine’s still in the box - too much stray junk from the MX5/GT6 interbreeding project on the bench at present.
Love the slo mo.
Is that Mannol injector cleaner?
Nick
Edit: Btw, suggest persevering with the Jag injectors. That fact that three were stuck initially suggests they’ve been sat around for a while so any deposits have had time to dry and set. Longer term soaking and another session or two has got to help. One of the vids I linked to earlier also suggested backflushing, especially if you are trying to avoid changing the strainer baskets.
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Last Edit: Dec 23, 2020 23:10:49 GMT by vitesseefi
1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Cheap Injector cleaner/tester?gryphon
@gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member 157
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Thanks It is mannol injector cleaner, picked for price rather than brand really. It's very stinky stuff and makes the powder coating on the tester slightly tacky when spilled... Seems to be doing the job though. I will keep going with the Jag injectors. They'll spend some more time in the ultrasonic bath today and I'll see if anything changes. I did a reverse flush after they all started firing, didn't seem to do much but I imagine it washed out the strainers. A comment I missed from the last post is that the flow rate on the pump isn't great. As the injector pulse width increases it struggles to hold pressure. I don't think this is really an issue, and you can work around it by testing the injectors two at a time if needed.
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Last Edit: Dec 24, 2020 9:44:52 GMT by gryphon
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bricol
Part of things
Posts: 281
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Annoyingly, this was the reply to my atttempt to buy one from ebay seller "cartols2019":
Because of the COVID-19 epidemic, our shipping agent don't send the parcel to your address .We cann't ship it to you now. We are willing to refund you in full. Do you agree? Waiting your replay. Very sorry for the inconveniences we caused to you. Hope to get your understanding. have a nice day : ) Thanks,
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