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I have at times through a long journey with retro cars which when i was young were actually new cars back then have acquired them when they needed money spent on them. Restored in a mild sense of the word a couple as an hobby never for profit and gone past the point of no return where whats been spent is more than its worth. This got me wondering are there any retro rides members who bought a retro in good faith / did a little work then either through choice or necessity spent more cash than the car would ever be worth then decided rather than take a loss just use it as a daily driver and enjoy the car and not consider its a loss maker in reality.
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Started out with nothing and have most of it left.
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I have at times through a long journey with retro cars which when i was young were actually new cars back then have acquired them when they needed money spent on them. Restored in a mild sense of the word a couple as an hobby never for profit and gone past the point of no return where whats been spent is more than its worth. This got me wondering are there any retro rides members who bought a retro in good faith / did a little work then either through choice or necessity spent more cash than the car would ever be worth then decided rather than take a loss just use it as a daily driver and enjoy the car and not consider its a loss maker in reality. It’s a bad example, I think, but the Galaxy cost me more than what I paid for it, spent as much as I paid for it in maintenance within 4 weeks. Sold, I hope, today, subject to collection tomorrow. But the work it did, and money it saved, I guess makes up for it. I always hurt for people who do end up, often not though the sellers fault, to buy stuff that needs a lot of work.
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,858
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Good idea for a thread I have at times through a long journey with retro cars which when i was young were actually new cars back then have acquired them when they needed money spent on them. All cars cost money - I've never been into bangernomics or shedding (running a car with only essential spending if it doesn't have to have it leave it broke - I like things to work too much) Restored in a mild sense of the word a couple as an hobby never for profit and gone past the point of no return where whats been spent is more than its worth. I think the hobby element is important - Mrs BC sometimes gets a little irritated by the spend but I've always countered it with - you get chauffeured everywhere in comfort and with 100% knowledge that you will get where you want to go and back again It's frequently backed up when she mentions that so and so had her car serviced and it cost £100's of pounds and so and so had to pay £XXXX to get a car thro an MOT She knows my labour time is free so as long as am prudent with parts purchases I'm fine - this sometimes means spreading work over a longer period in the case of my money pit Tools (after an incident many years ago involving a lot of blood loss - the destruction a cream carpet with oil soiled boots and Mrs BC having the shock of seeing me with blood pouring down my face) get accepted without question - we agreed I wouldn't buy cheap tools again This got me wondering are there any retro rides members who bought a retro in good faith / did a little work then either through choice or necessity spent more cash than the car would ever be worth then decided rather than take a loss just use it as a daily driver and enjoy the car and not consider its a loss maker in reality. I've always tried to use my older cars on a regular basis but I do always have a more modern daily (it's still older than most of the white goods on the streets around me - tend to buy at 6 years old - frequently I have scheduled some major work on the daily and spread that over a few weeks and one of the older cars on a daily basis
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vader
Part of things
Posts: 425
Club RR Member Number: 93
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My Stag has cost more than it’s worth, by some margin. Do I regret it? Nope. It’s not an every day car for me but I love driving it and do so when ever possible, even just a trip to the super market.
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Triumph Stag Ducati Supersport Shanks’s Pony
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Not a daily driver but I’ve spent more on parts for my Z3 than I spent buying it from here last spring (& getting it shipped to me) bit I now know it’s got 100% new suspension and braking system as well as a new wheels and tyres and some other shiny bits like a strut brace, etc... It’s not worth what I’ve spent that’s for sure but I (& the Mrs) love driving it and I’ve also really enjoyed actually doing all of the work. One thing I’d missed only having modern cars for a few years is being able to actually work on them at home without a diagnostic tool and a computer...
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I spent 700 on my daily Mondeo ST TDCi, and I reckon I've spent about 1500 in getting it right enough to rely on, and there are still bills to come. Really wanted one but could only afford the type of car thats one step away from breaker. Happens a lot when I buy a car.
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,580
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I would say my Escort mk3 is like this. I bought it 7 years ago as a second car (mk1 Focus my daily). It looked amazing but didnt realise £1300 worth of welding was needed to get an MOT next time. had that done and about 2/3 years ago scrapped the focus meaning the Escort is now my only daily. Its had other welding and a re-spray too. After sitting outside all this time i've uncovered a fair bit of welding that will need doing. At that point where I've had another project car (Capri 2.0) which i've also put a lot of money into, probably more than i'll get back on that one so... don't know if I have the heart to spend my hard earned again.
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We don't have a modern car. Our son's '96 Pulsar is the youngest car in the fleet and with only 237,000 km on it also the one with the lowest mileage. It is common for us to spend more than a car is worth on repairs but to me that is preferable to spending a similar amount on a replacement car which may have a huge list of problems that we don't know about.
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My daily Multipla has cost probably 4 times what I paid for it almost 5 years ago,but it's always going to be one major breakdown away from being replaced. As it stands today, I'm playing cambelt/ clutch roulette as either of those could expire soon,and both would cost more to rectify than is probably sensible for a car it its current state.
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This time around I’ve spent the best part of £2k on an engine conversion for my rrc which didn’t work, and I'm now spending a further £1k or so rebuilding and refitting an engine which was in it around 10 years ago I love this car with a passion ( mostly!) so it gets what it needs, I'm also VERY particular in which parts I’ll fit to it Cost effective?? Never Driving something I love? Every time 😀
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Paul
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,900
Member is Online
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I think the hobby element is important Very much this.. I think I've only ever turned a profit on two cars I've owned out of about 40... As has been said already my retros are a hobby - they do get thrown into daily duties occasionally but me and the wife are fortunate enough to have sensible non-retros to deploy most of the time. As with most hobbies we put in money without any expectation of return (I went through a golf phase once, spent 000s on clubs and fees and all I've got is a bad back and an obsolete set of clubs), so I'm not upset when the cost of parts and repairs outstrips the cost of buying the car. In fact I think that's something we have to accept with car ownership, especially older retro ones. My most recent purchase has easily cost the same over in tyres, cambelt, servicing, sundry other repairs but it goes with the territory IMHO.
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Ritchie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 764
Club RR Member Number: 12
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I think it's pretty reasonable to spent a lot, even more than the car is worth by some margin as long as it is solid and not rusty. Otherwise you are just chasing rust and delaying the inevitable IMO. As soon as I see rust starting to get a hold too much I tend to get rid as I can't be arsed with the battle.
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Some very interesting accounts of owning and maintaining a retro. I have a neighbour with a Golf GTi Mk4 who happily spends upwards of 200 pounds a month on a car in reality worth about a grand. This guy told me hes happy doing it / the pleasure from owning and driving makes the expense worthwhile. There isnt much of the original car left as he steadily replaces literally everything. Now its not economical motoring to do that for most of us but you will find someone who doesnt count the pennies on maintenance and parts.
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Started out with nothing and have most of it left.
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jamesd1972
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,818
Club RR Member Number: 40
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We are scraping by on the Land Rover - its worth pretty much what has gone into it but also had 5years as a toy and being useful about the place. Tools wise, I've just managed to get sign off on a 1/2" impact gun and a welder so must have been in the good books. I'm also lucky in having boys who are interested in doing stuff so things can be justified as a family expense as well. Both of our dailies are >100K and 10 years old and I do basic oil & filters brakes etc. the money I save on this is what I'm allowed to spend on other projects. Long term the welder opens up options for a different project once the tractor (don't ask) is up and running... All of the above monies being spent pale into insignificance compared with a PCP type thing for a white goods car, you pays yer money and takes your chance. I've also long said that my 'social fund' is spent on cars and not beer - not drinking a few pints in the pub every week soon pays for a car on the side ! James
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As far as I was aware, beyond bangernomics it's not really possible to buy a car, run it for a little while and sel it on for profit. Not unless there's a hike in their value (and you sell it before the parts prices catch up), or you do the absolute minimum to keep it running and con the next chap into thinking that it's been taken care of. Or, of course, you con the poor chap before you buying it from a barn when they've got no idea what they've got.
Suppose I'm not really a good example though. I tend to buy cars to keep, rather than to sell. It always seems like a loss-making thing (or overly stressful if you have to worry about making a loss), so tend to have a list of cars I really, really like and only really buy those. Cars that are worth keeping and fixing for the long haul. Most of them have been daily drivers at some point too, and I've spent way more than they were worth in the process!
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,072
Club RR Member Number: 64
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I tend to regard my classic fleet as an expensive and time consuming hobby that has the benefit of giving me free transport.
I bought a Rover P4 in 2000, and spent way more than it was worth over a period of three or four years, then ran it without spending too much for another three or four. I sold it after seven years of ownership for a little more than I’d initially paid for it. I couldn’t stomach watching it deteriorate as I’d lost my covered parking. The financial loss was significant, but probably comparable to buying a new Golf and running it for the same period of time.
The only way to truly cheap motoring is to buy at the bottom of the market and be utterly ruthless about running it into the ground. Sadly, I can’t live with faults on a vehicle, and have too much mechanical sympathy to be that hard.
Over the last five years or so, my Land-Rover seems to have ticked over from, just being another old car, to being a valuable classic; and has climbed more in value than at any other time in my ownership. That’s the only other way to minimise the expenditure: stick with a vehicle all through its doldrum years.
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,858
Club RR Member Number: 71
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I tend to regard my classic fleet as an expensive and time consuming hobby that has the benefit of giving me free transport. Good way to look at it I bought a Rover P4 in 2000, and spent way more than it was worth over a period of three or four years, then ran it without spending too much for another three or four. I sold it after seven years of ownership for a little more than I’d initially paid for it. I couldn’t stomach watching it deteriorate as I’d lost my covered parking. The financial loss was significant, but probably comparable to buying a new Golf and running it for the same period of time. I have a mate who runs a BMW 760iL - he spends a lot of money on maintaining it to a high std - He also does a lot of miles (his previous daily was a 540i E39 that reached over 300,000 miles before the rust finally killed it. To him it's still cheaper than running a PCP on a bright shiney white fridge The only way to truly cheap motoring is to buy at the bottom of the market and be utterly ruthless about running it into the ground. Sadly, I can’t live with faults on a vehicle, and have too much mechanical sympathy to be that hard. I can't do that either - it would make my teeth itch just thinking about all the faults I want to fix but can't Over the last five years or so, my Land-Rover seems to have ticked over from, just being another old car, to being a valuable classic; and has climbed more in value than at any other time in my ownership. That’s the only other way to minimise the expenditure: stick with a vehicle all through its doldrum years. The LC went the same way (although maintenance cost can be a little heavy)
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A bit like Glen, I bought my 1955 Land Rover back in 1986 as a daily driver, over the years it has cost me money, but I have always regarded it as a hobby. It was retired as a daily some time ago and is the only vehicle I have owned that has increased significantly, that it's current value would cover everything I have ever spent on it, including a large chunk of fuel. it's immaterial any way as I don't plan on selling. With my daily cars when I was putting on big mileages I would buy three year old cars and wind the milage up. The trick was knowing when to sell before it started costing big money. Some I got right, others fell into the well I might as well keep it longer as I have spent X already on it - not always a good plan.
Back in the 70's and 80's car restoration was largely just a hobby, It was generally reckoned that you would never recover what you had spent on a restoration if a vehicle was sold. Now it seems loads of people are in it to try and make a quick buck, encouraged by some of these TV programs. The result is often a lot of poor quality work, under a glossy coat of paint, sold to the unweary under the illusion that it is an investment.
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Last Edit: Jan 5, 2021 10:53:58 GMT by landieles
1954 Land Rover 107 Station Wagon 1955 Land Rover 86 Utility 1956 Land Rover 107 Pick Up 1986 2CV 1947 Ransomes Crawler Tractor 2001 C15 Citroen Van 2017 VW crafter
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In 25 years, out of all the cars I've had (most of which were my dailies, I've never bought/had a car to use just as a hobby/toy) I've only sold two on to someone else. The rest were driven until it was no longer practical to keep using them and they went to the scrapper. I found selling cars to be a huge pain in the *** and, like moving house, something to be avoided whenever possible.
If I buy a nice enough car that I really like for £1k or less, it's worth ploughing in some money for maintenance and MOTs as to buy another one would just cost me another £1k anyway and I'm starting with another unknown quantity again. My only caveat is rust, simple repairs are ok but anything over that and you just end up chasing the stuff around and spending a fortune for your trouble.
As for new cars, well I can't afford one and probably never will be able to. As for PCP/lease etc, that would cost me significantly more annually than running an old car and ultimately it's just money down the drain, in my opinion. I get some people like it, fair enough but it's not for me.
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,072
Club RR Member Number: 64
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The whole PCP/Lease/buy new thing depends entirely on your use of the vehicle, your mileage, and your ability/willingness to do your own maintenance.
When I moved house a few years ago, I did the maths, and at a little over 9000 miles in a year it was cheaper to buy a new Up! than put fuel into the Land-Rover. Also, even if you have the money in the bank, it can be cheaper to finance the initial purchase with a pcp, than buying the whole thing with a loan or hp. It obviously depends on the car, and depreciation, deals and personal preference makes a big difference too. For the 5-6000 miles I do a year these days, the Land-Rover is by far the cheapest option.
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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