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Quite a damning report on Blockly's in this.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Quite a damning report on Blockly's in this. I find the single most damning thing about blockley tyres is the proprietor. |
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Quite a damning report on Blockly's in this. I find the single most damning thing about blockley tyres is the proprietor. Julian? Only know him as a Vintage race car driver, didn't realise he owned Blockley for some reason. |
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Last Edit: Jan 7, 2021 7:39:15 GMT by HoTWire
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Looks like a translation from one of the German magazines Autobild Klassik, they often do good quality comparisons it's a shame there's not an english version, What I would be interested in is how they compare to a modern tyre I've always wondered if you are paying more for less with the classic tyres.
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Last Edit: Jan 7, 2021 8:28:23 GMT by kevins
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vitesseefi
South West
Posts: 2,243
Member is Online
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I don’t understand why anyone would pay extra for tyre that works less well than the better mainstream offerings, just because they look “correct”.
Perhaps this is because I prefer fixing and driving my old cars to polishing and showing.....
Obviously if there are no mainstream modern offerings that meet the specs by needed it’s a different matter.
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend)
1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing)
1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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I don’t understand why anyone would pay extra for tyre that works less well than the better mainstream offerings, just because they look “correct”. The main reason for me was the size - 185/70x13 isn't commonly available in a proper brand. I did manage to get some Uniroyals for one car when I needed them (though I did have to get the insurance company to agree I could run T-rated tyres instead of the H-rated ones that were on it originally), but the option of something like the Blockley tyre was a welcome change from the ridiculous cost of something from Longstone. When I checked, I think the cheapest Longstone tyre in that size was around £300 (though I think there's one that's less now), so £1200 for a set of four tyres that will want changing for age long before the thread runs low. That article isn't good for Blockley at all, though I have read stuff from people who have that make on their cars who say differently, and I wonder whether any of that might be down to the article tests being done on a modern car. I don't know enough about tyres to know whether that would make enough difference. |
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You can get yokohama A021R's in 185/70 13 for around £80 each and there are plenty of budget tyres with good wet grip rating out there which probably out perform many of the "retro tyres", I have 175/70 13 yokohama summer tyres on my elan they work brilliantly even now when they are 6 or 7 years old.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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I find the single most damning thing about blockley tyres is the proprietor. Julian? Only know him as a Vintage race car driver, didn't realise he owned Blockley for some reason. Yes. Arrogant, condescending, and either a liar or doesn’t understand how crossplies are sized to boot. I’m not the only one to have had a bad experience with him going from a discussion on another forum either. |
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
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What I would be interested in is how they compare to a modern tyre And also a comparison with a 10+ year old tyre. I was buying a new computer to use for my work recently, and was getting hung up on various benchmark scores and tests that showed various machines being 5-10% faster at this or that action. Once I was able to compare those benchmark scores of the new equipment my old machine, and see that all the options I was looking at were scoring 7-8x better than my old system, it was clear those small differences between the modern options didn’t really matter. Personally, I wasn’t willing to pay the silly money for tyres with the right tread pattern, and opted for modern tyres at a fraction of the cost. They aren’t ‘performance’ tyres, but it’s not a performance car, and they’ll be much better than the old tyres that came on it. |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Looks like a translation from one of the German magazines Autobild Klassik, they often do good quality comparisons it's a shame there's not an english version, What I would be interested in is how they compare to a modern tyre I've always wondered if you are paying more for less with the classic tyres. This. I know some people, including Dougal will say that the retro tyres are better than the non-retro tyres, but it would be good to hear evidence of it. Granted, they do look the business on some cars, but that does come at a cost. On some cars, they're about the only choice without getting a commercial tyre or a tyre that was not intended to be used with that car (e.g the Citroen DS and it's Asymettical tyres, which Michelin still sell). I've heard some views as to potentially their benefit. The most notable ones are as follows: -l - Peugeot 205 GTi - They're a lively thing on budget rubber and I suspect older rubber when they were newer! I remember my friend thinking it was rubbish and he spun ours at 30MPH! hoopsontoast will remember it drifting around the now-gone Coventry Train Station roundabout! But then that's what made them legendary.
It's something serial owner and car journalist John Simister seems to have reported in his articles when he tested 205s overt the last ten years. Modern rubber tamed the reputable wayward rear end, which is probably why some folks now wonder what the fuss is about. I know mine drove very differently on decent modern rubber.; Apparently, not that I'm lucky enough to have experienced this, The Porsche Carrera GT handles much better on the Michelin Super Sports over the original PS2s, which I can believe from what I had on my 944 Turbo - BMW E30 M3 - A car which was known for grip. I can't say I'm a massive fan of the guy but it is interesting to hear sometimes what Chris Harris has to say. He was saying that on an E30, modern rubber hasn't helped the legend. They were made to be playable and handle well on the limit, and modern rubber just gives them more and more grip, to the extent the little performance they have today really doesn't seem like much with that newfound grip.
I think the problem is, the market is quite small, and getting a retro which is representative of being a decent breed etc. would make life tricky, and maybe not accurately reflect the testing. A tyre which suits something like an E-Type may not work well on an Elan for example, or a Mini. Now, if someone gives me a retro, a few grand, and race-track hire I could give a half arsed opinion! Maybe a few others here could chip in! |
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Last Edit: Jan 7, 2021 19:12:06 GMT by ChasR
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You can get yokohama A021R's in 185/70 13 for around £80 each and there are plenty of budget tyres with good wet grip rating out there which probably out perform many of the "retro tyres", I have 175/70 13 yokohama summer tyres on my elan they work brilliantly even now when they are 6 or 7 years old. There certainly do seem to be more 185/70x13 tyres around now, but they were in very short supply when I needed them - I think other than the Uniroyal (which were £40 each) the only other branded tyre was over £100, then upwards to Longstone. But it's good that there are other options now. |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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You can get yokohama A021R's in 185/70 13 for around £80 each and there are plenty of budget tyres with good wet grip rating out there which probably out perform many of the "retro tyres", I have 175/70 13 yokohama summer tyres on my elan they work brilliantly even now when they are 6 or 7 years old. The EU ratings are not too trustworthy TBH. They're better than nothing but they can't be used for two tyres in the same size. It's all down to how they are classified. A few tests have shown this. www.tyrepress.com/2015/03/tyre-test-results-mock-european-label-ratings/I could explain but it's confusing how the ratings are drawn up. In short from what I remember -A tyre (say a Michelin Cross Climate) is tested in that size with the one in the largest profile, but the thinnest tyre, while remaining to be the same model. That's for the grip ratings -The noise ratings are done in a similar manner. They are tested measuing the noise from outside the car, not inside. This is why some tyres I suspect are only available in certain sizes, and with demand sinking on odd sizes, probably the reason why some sizes have become awkward to get good tyres in. Before anyone says it, no, I'm not a raving Brexiteer  . |
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Last Edit: Jan 7, 2021 19:22:20 GMT by ChasR
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I know some people, including Dougal will say that the retro tyres are better than the non-retro tyres, but it would be good to hear evidence of it. I don't think that anyone is suggesting that the classic tyres are a better design than the latest modern ones, simply that they are more suitable for some classic cars. I can't find the thread, however my understanding of what was being said is that the older design tyres are more appropriate to the suspension geometry of older cars (and in particular the greater amount of lean in the corners). This was to do with factors such as the shoulder shape, with the result being that the 'classic' tyres gave more predictable handling as the breakaway was more progressive, and I have heard this elsewhere too. I pure performance terms, they may not be 'better', but in feel / feedback terms, it may be a different story. However it may be that some of this is actually due to the classic tyres being the only option available in the correct sizes? There is often a lot said regarding the Citroen DS being very fussy about which tyres it wears, due to the geometry, whereas some cars are much less fussy - e.g. if the geometry always keeps the tyre at the required angle to the road. In terms of this test, it would be interesting to see it conducted with the same tyre brands / models, but on a range of different old cars to see if the results are the same across the board. As far as I can tell, the only conclusive data from it is which tyres are best suited to that Porsche! |
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What I would be interested in is how they compare to a modern tyre And also a comparison with a 10+ year old tyre. I was buying a new computer to use for my work recently, and was getting hung up on various benchmark scores and tests that showed various machines being 5-10% faster at this or that action. Once I was able to compare those benchmark scores of the new equipment my old machine, and see that all the options I was looking at were scoring 7-8x better than my old system, it was clear those small differences between the modern options didn’t really matter. Personally, I wasn’t willing to pay the silly money for tyres with the right tread pattern, and opted for modern tyres at a fraction of the cost. They aren’t ‘performance’ tyres, but it’s not a performance car, and they’ll be much better than the old tyres that came on it. I quite agree and I did the same, the cost of the classic tyres is huge compaired to a more modern alternative and I haven't noticed any handling problems with my MK2 Jag, true i'm not hammering it down the motorway at 100MPH or escaping from a bank robbery in it but then it is nearly 62 years old now! |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Jan 10, 2021 15:19:31 GMT
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I know some people, including Dougal will say that the retro tyres are better than the non-retro tyres, but it would be good to hear evidence of it. I don't think that anyone is suggesting that the classic tyres are a better design than the latest modern ones, simply that they are more suitable for some classic cars. I can't find the thread, however my understanding of what was being said is that the older design tyres are more appropriate to the suspension geometry of older cars (and in particular the greater amount of lean in the corners). This was to do with factors such as the shoulder shape, with the result being that the 'classic' tyres gave more predictable handling as the breakaway was more progressive, and I have heard this elsewhere too. I pure performance terms, they may not be 'better', but in feel / feedback terms, it may be a different story. However it may be that some of this is actually due to the classic tyres being the only option available in the correct sizes? In terms of this test, it would be interesting to see it conducted with the same tyre brands / models, but on a range of different old cars to see if the results are the same across the board. As far as I can tell, the only conclusive data from it is which tyres are best suited to that Porsche! Agreed. It seems we're both saying similar things. A test with varying cars would be great. I did suggest for Tyre Reviews maybe to test the classic tyres vs. new on say a typical classic, but he was only interested in trying it in something like an F40. A shame, as he does alot of 'real world' testing for other tyres on his YouTube channel. It was Dougal who came out about how the tyres would be more suitable with regards to rolling/characteristics. While I agree his theory holds up, it would be good to have empirical evidence to back his claims. Bear in mind, with him selling them, of course he'll suggest theories as to why his tyres will be best  . It's how businesses work after all. I think modern tyres do breakaway very well now, at least in my experience, and others like the examples I mentioned about (Pilot Sport 2 to the SuperSports and then the 4S). Yup, DS seems to be the known and tested example previously. Citroen Classics have extensively tried a few tyres on these. And also a comparison with a 10+ year old tyre. I was buying a new computer to use for my work recently, and was getting hung up on various benchmark scores and tests that showed various machines being 5-10% faster at this or that action. Once I was able to compare those benchmark scores of the new equipment my old machine, and see that all the options I was looking at were scoring 7-8x better than my old system, it was clear those small differences between the modern options didn’t really matter. Personally, I wasn’t willing to pay the silly money for tyres with the right tread pattern, and opted for modern tyres at a fraction of the cost. They aren’t ‘performance’ tyres, but it’s not a performance car, and they’ll be much better than the old tyres that came on it. I quite agree and I did the same, the cost of the classic tyres is huge compaired to a more modern alternative and I haven't noticed any handling problems with my MK2 Jag, true i'm not hammering it down the motorway at 100MPH or escaping from a bank robbery in it but then it is nearly 62 years old now! I think it depends on who it matters for in the business sense. I got used to using very decent bits of kit in previous roles and then going for more Excel based tasks. I can comfortably say that it's easy to see why some businesses can't keep up. As for tyre grip/response, it seems to be depend on what you're used to, and how you set the benchmarks. It's an easy thing to settle into. I have a few examples, and not just of 'fancy' cars. I thought my M3 drove well on the Falkens that came with it! It was progressive, grippy and generally good. It could have been better on track with those tyres but it was fine. When I fitted the Michelin Pilot Sport 4Ss, it drove very differently even at low speed. It was sharper, more agile and generally boosted the car experience. While I moaned like mental about paying a fortune on tyres, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't happy with the new found grip and control of the car. It was similar deal on our Mondeos my dad and I once used to use. He used to fit budgets on. I can't remember why I went to premium tyres ; I think it was down to the tyre shop not having anything else in stock, and the fact that I've been very loyal to them ; he would go above and beyond on a number of occasions. Anyway I fitted them. I did not expect to have a mundane car to be not so mundane on the backroads! In the wet, I really noticed a difference. Prior to that, I thought "That's what these Mondeos are like", and just lived with the car. It what we do with benchmarking. The other difference? Tyre life. My dad and I would be changing an axle's worth of tyres every month, due to our 10,000 miles a month covered in the Mondeo. That went to 2 months. Sure, the cost difference wasn't much, but not quite half. However, that's when I realised life was too short to be going into tyre shops to change tyres every month, while I should have been making cash, or simply relaxing dare I say! The biggest nail in the coffin however came from my sister. She had the above Mondeo with Michelins and I gave her a friend's '07 Saab 9-3 1.8t. My friend never like the car's handling and neither did I. I thought being a drop top, decent tyres are probably a waste. As a newish driver going from the 327k Mondeo to a 110k Saab on budgets, my sister didn't like how it drove and thought maybe it was down to the weight of the car etc. It went through the following tyre combos: -16s : Fronts : Kumho KU31s. Rears : Toyo CF-IIs -17s : Fronts : Landsail LS388s. Rears : ContiSport 3s It improved on the 17s, but it still wasn't quite the same as the Mondeo. I then came to change the fronts to Goodyear Eagle F1s. It did grip better to me on the short drive I took it on. My sister, without being told about tyres, and not knowing much about cars, she called my dad and I that day to say what were we thinking in letting her go around on 'poor' tyres, in her words. She could not understand why we didn't suggest she spend the £160 on tyres earlier on, for transforming the feel of the car that much. I must admit, with the remap, when I last drove that car, it does actually now drive well down the country roads, even with the scuttle shake. Sure, the steering is numb, but it does cover the ground nicely . Anyway, I've waffled a bit in trying to explain a simple viewpoint of mine. Here's a cool motor on a cool set of tyres.    |
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. It's how businesses work after all. I think modern tyres do breakaway very well now, at least in my experience, and others like the examples I mentioned about (Pilot Sport 2 to the SuperSports and then the 4S).