wu11ie
Part of things
Posts: 117
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Jan 17, 2021 15:02:18 GMT
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Just like a Skarfolk poster, For more information, please re-read. I believe your confusion is coming from the Ministry taking a reflector and it's light source as a headlamp so fitting the wrong bulb is a modified headlamp, however you want to argue. Having just re-read that link to the manual and studied it more, they do say existing halogen units CONVERTED to LED or HID are a fail. But a bulb replacement to LED is a bulb replacement. You take one bulb out, and fit another. DVSA are utter shitbags for wording, so it could be argued if you have a direct replacement LED that DOES have a good pattern and no scatter, its fine The DVSA word it poorly and the testers deal with the curse word end of the stick on the front line, sounds exactly like the govt lol
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Jan 17, 2021 16:34:47 GMT
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That above statement is exactly how I get it From pals in the motor trade, the DVSA just make mot garages work harder an harder and treat the testers quite poorly, not my first hand experience but views of ALL the testers I know
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Fraud owners club member 1999 Jaguar s type 1993 ford escort
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Jan 17, 2021 21:07:58 GMT
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a friend has converted his spitfire to complete led light units will this affect him even though his car is now mot exempt
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,948
Club RR Member Number: 77
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Jan 17, 2021 21:12:40 GMT
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a friend has converted his spitfire to complete led light units will this affect him even though his car is now mot exempt Nope, as they are complete light units deigned to be LED from the outset Same as the ones on johnthesparky and fr€$h&m1nt¥ have posted above/page before
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Jan 18, 2021 21:47:02 GMT
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This thread has also demonstrates that people don't understand the difference between an mot test and being roadworthy. One of them lasts for 45 mins a year, the other 525600 minutes a year, but they are the same rules
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,948
Club RR Member Number: 77
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Jan 18, 2021 21:59:21 GMT
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This thread has also demonstrates that people don't understand the difference between an mot test and being roadworthy. One of them lasts for 45 mins a year, the other 525600 minutes a year, but they are the same rules I think the main thing people forget is that for the 12 months after a test pass, the vehicle "should" be able to pass that test at any point if presented
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tofufi
South West
Posts: 1,452
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This thread has also demonstrates that people don't understand the difference between an mot test and being roadworthy. One of them lasts for 45 mins a year, the other 525600 minutes a year, but they are the same rules Actually, a vehicle can pass an MOT and still be unroadworthy - due to things not covered or non-testable during an MOT test - for example, seatbelts which cannot be inspected during the test due to a child seat being fitted. But yes, you make a good point - a car should always be able to pass an MOT at any point during the year
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This thread has also demonstrates that people don't understand the difference between an mot test and being roadworthy. One of them lasts for 45 mins a year, the other 525600 minutes a year, but they are the same rules Actually, a vehicle can pass an MOT and still be unroadworthy - due to things not covered or non-testable during an MOT test - for example, seatbelts which cannot be inspected during the test due to a child seat being fitted. But yes, you make a good point - a car should always be able to pass an MOT at any point during the year I can attest to this one. We had our 2005 X-Trail MOT'ed specifically so we could sell it, and it passed without issue. When I went to clean it out inside to photograph it, I removed the child seats (which had still been fitted via ISOFIX at the time of the MOT) only to find the seatbelt anchor points on both sides were badly corroded - not visible during the MOT inspection. That was the point where my advert for a car with a 12 month MOT suddenly became an advert for a car with a full MOT, but specifically being sold consderably cheaper as "spares or repairs". Thankfully the guy that bought it was an enthusast and was handy with a welder, otherwise I imagine from the sheer number of enquiries I got (of the "be there in 10 mins with cash" nature), it would have been on some dodgy backstreet dealer's forecourt within a couple of days, marked up at three times the price - being sold "with full MOT" and the rust conveniently repainted/covered up.
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1997 Subaru Impreza Turbo 2000 1991 Eunos Roadster
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cjj
Part of things
Posts: 275
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Seems clear to me that you shouldn't stick a non-halogen bulb in a headlight that wasn't designed to take a non-halogen (LED or HID) bulb.
Whether that bulb has been designed to work with the headlight is irrelevant - the headlight was not designed to work with the bulb. People moan about how theirs are fine and work great etc, but it doesn't really matter - the rule will exist for safety reasons to cover off the broadest problem area.
The problem, as already seen here, is that people will convince themselves the rule doesn't apply to them and it gets like COVID where people will use semantics over common sense.
In short: Super bright bulbs in headlights not designed from them can be very dangerous.
Even more annoying when people use brighter bulbs to compensate for UV damaged, badly adjusted, or simply dirty headlight units.
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Jan 19, 2021 10:13:17 GMT
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Don’t forget all hid lights need to be fitted with head lamp washer So it’s easier to tell if they are not factory fitted 😉 My headlights are factory HID, and no washers. I've also had a car that doesn't do the whole ABS light startup that usually results in a fail, and had to argue the toss with the tester that this make/model car doesn't do that.
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Last Edit: Jan 19, 2021 10:14:39 GMT by Soopahfly
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cjj
Part of things
Posts: 275
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Jan 19, 2021 11:56:30 GMT
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Don’t forget all hid lights need to be fitted with head lamp washer So it’s easier to tell if they are not factory fitted 😉 My headlights are factory HID, and no washers. I've also had a car that doesn't do the whole ABS light startup that usually results in a fail, and had to argue the toss with the tester that this make/model car doesn't do that. I don't have the regulations to hand, but it is only required to have washers if the light output exceeds 2000 lumens. Something to do with water residue and dazzling. I would, however, use auto-levelling as a more competent source of 'things required on Xenon/LED lights'.
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Last Edit: Jan 19, 2021 11:57:03 GMT by cjj
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Jan 19, 2021 13:09:26 GMT
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Interesting this.
I've run (good quality) HID conversions in my past 2 cars since 2008 and have never been questioned at MOT time - passed every time (last one 3 weeks ago).
Beam pattern is good on mine, & never been flashed in 13 years - but as Cossie says the startup is a giveaway but it's never been a problem so far.
More interesting is on my Pop, they are LED replacement bulbs in a halogen 5 3/4" reflector - but as I built the car and it's registered that I am the manufacturer then technically I can say it's designed to run LED bulbs...........hmmmmm..........
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Jan 19, 2021 13:17:24 GMT
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Just like a Skarfolk poster, For more information, please re-read. I believe your confusion is coming from the Ministry taking a reflector and it's light source as a headlamp so fitting the wrong bulb is a modified headlamp, however you want to argue. Having just re-read that link to the manual and studied it more, they do say existing halogen units CONVERTED to LED or HID are a fail. But a bulb replacement to LED is a bulb replacement. You take one bulb out, and fit another. DVSA are utter shitbags for wording, so it could be argued if you have a direct replacement LED that DOES have a good pattern and no scatter, its fine I think it may still be a 'conversion' as the HID/LED 'bulb' has the light source in a different position to the filament of a halogen. As such you have 'converted' the lamp as the focus of the light is now in a different place - so 'converted' If they made an LED/HID with EXACTLY the same size/position of light output then all these arguements would possibly carry weight.
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cjj
Part of things
Posts: 275
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Jan 19, 2021 14:46:56 GMT
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Having just re-read that link to the manual and studied it more, they do say existing halogen units CONVERTED to LED or HID are a fail. But a bulb replacement to LED is a bulb replacement. You take one bulb out, and fit another. DVSA are utter shitbags for wording, so it could be argued if you have a direct replacement LED that DOES have a good pattern and no scatter, its fine I think it may still be a 'conversion' as the HID/LED 'bulb' has the light source in a different position to the filament of a halogen. As such you have 'converted' the lamp as the focus of the light is now in a different place - so 'converted' If they made an LED/HID with EXACTLY the same size/position of light output then all these arguements would possibly carry weight. I think this is an important distinction, as Halogen bulbs only fit one way.
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,948
Club RR Member Number: 77
Member is Online
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Jan 19, 2021 17:34:04 GMT
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Having just re-read that link to the manual and studied it more, they do say existing halogen units CONVERTED to LED or HID are a fail. But a bulb replacement to LED is a bulb replacement. You take one bulb out, and fit another. DVSA are utter shitbags for wording, so it could be argued if you have a direct replacement LED that DOES have a good pattern and no scatter, its fine I think it may still be a 'conversion' as the HID/LED 'bulb' has the light source in a different position to the filament of a halogen. As such you have 'converted' the lamp as the focus of the light is now in a different place - so 'converted' If they made an LED/HID with EXACTLY the same size/position of light output then all these arguements would possibly carry weight. Funny you should say this, as the Osram H4 replacements I've currently got have the "filaments" in the same places, and a little shroud over the dip beam segment too. Just like a halogen bulb
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Jan 19, 2021 19:38:12 GMT
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Well Osram are a renowned bulb maker so their bulbs would have to pass CE(?) regs so in theory their bulbs ought to be legal. I don't know if any modern cars run LED bulbs the same as the Osram ones as std? cjj the HID or LED bulbs also only fit one way - they have the normal H7 fittings on them.
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93fxdl
Posted a lot
Enter your message here...
Posts: 2,000
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Jan 19, 2021 20:58:16 GMT
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Last Edit: Jan 19, 2021 21:00:50 GMT by 93fxdl
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jimi
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,812
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Jan 19, 2021 21:06:37 GMT
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Wrong thread
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Last Edit: Jan 19, 2021 21:08:19 GMT by jimi
Black is not a colour ! .... Its the absence of colour
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cjj
Part of things
Posts: 275
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Jan 19, 2021 21:36:55 GMT
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cjj the HID or LED bulbs also only fit one way - they have the normal H7 fittings on them. Yes but the point is that Halogen bulbs will do that do direct the light in a specific direction - are LED replacements guaranteed to concentrate the light output in the same direction? LED lights tend not to, which is why a lot of LED interior bulbs don't work very well when the replace T5s
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Jan 19, 2021 22:08:26 GMT
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cjj the HID or LED bulbs also only fit one way - they have the normal H7 fittings on them. Yes but the point is that Halogen bulbs will do that do direct the light in a specific direction - are LED replacements guaranteed to concentrate the light output in the same direction? LED lights tend not to, which is why a lot of LED interior bulbs don't work very well when the replace T5s That was exactly my point several posts back. Interesting quote from Glenn's link (which was very informative); "We believe that the system for car bulbs is vastly outdated. The The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 is based on old technology and doesn’t account for newer technologies like LED’s. The regulations are not in-line with current MOT testing guidelines and creates a confusing message for people looking to purchase these products" So there you have it - they are illegal - but shouldn't be, lol.
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