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Thinking of buying one of these (see pic) for my 1986 Capri.
Has anyone had any experience fitting an LSD to a diff? I haven't and was wondering how diy-able it is. Also - it says 2.8 and 3.0 on the ad, will it still fit a 1.6 axle?
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Fitting an LSDslater
@slater
Club Retro Rides Member 78
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To do it properly it needs a fair bit of knowledge and some specialist tools. It's not just a case of bolting it in. Everything will need checking and shimming etc. Sure its possible for anyone who puts thier mind to it tho!
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bricol
Part of things
Posts: 281 
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What axle has your car got would be the first question to answer . . .
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Ritchie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 765
Club RR Member Number: 12
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Fitting an LSDRitchie
@ritchie
Club Retro Rides Member 12
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I’m guessing the 1.6 has an English axle whilst the V6 ones had an Atlas.
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I've fit three LSDs to diffs, one went well, one was untested but seemed ok, and the last (actually the first) not so much. The technique I used was to fit the diff with the shims in the same location and check the tooth contact using engineer's blue. There's guides online for the mesh pattern you want to see. Then shift around the shims until the mesh pattern looks like it should. I'm not sure on how to check the amount of preload on the bearings though, but others might chime in. The issue with the first diff is I didn't know any of that and just bolted it in with the shims in the stock position. Cue a whining diff and unhappy gears. The second I did, but was untested when I sold it. I'm fairly certain it would have been ok, but I would have liked to have tested it to ease my conscience. The third was in the X1/9 gearbox and has a different method for shimming which makes it easier to swap. Oh, and I've done a bit of research on these Blackline diffs. There's a lot of misinformation out there about them. They're made in China (hence the misinformation). The material specs are good, as is the basic design. The chap looking at them was a gear design engineer for a living and mentioned that he didn't spot anything that's particularly different from a similar quaife unit he had in the basic specifications. What he did say was that the finishing wasn't quite as good, specifically deburring of some of the machined sections. He took his diff apart to clean up some of these edges and found that the bits inside where the gears turned were fine, but as he was a bit of a perfectionist he wanted to clean up the other bits with a file as well. They specify a fluid change after a certain number of miles while Quaife doesn't, which he thinks is due to Quaife doing a bedding-in procedure in the factory whereas these guys are getting the customer to do the bedding in (and not charging them as much because of that). He was more than happy with that compromise, but it depends how OCD you are I suppose, and how likely you are to remember to change the oil after X thousand miles  |
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Fitting an LSDHARDCORE
@hardcore
Club Retro Rides Member 190
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it says 2.8 and 3.0 on the ad, will it still fit a 1.6 axle? It's possible, but very likely not. V6 Capris had an Atlas axle, and most non-V6 Capris had an English axle. Easy to tell though - Atlas axles have a bolt on rear cover plate, whereas on English axles the diff bolts into the front of the case. If you're still unsure post pics of your axle & I'll tell you straight away which it is. |
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it says 2.8 and 3.0 on the ad, will it still fit a 1.6 axle? It's possible, but very likely not. V6 Capris had an Atlas axle, and most non-V6 Capris had an English axle. Easy to tell though - Atlas axles have a bolt on rear cover plate, whereas on English axles the diff bolts into the front of the case. If you're still unsure post pics of your axle & I'll tell you straight away which it is. Yeah I've definitely got the Atlas axle with the rear cover. I've replaced the cover, gaskets and oil a few times but I've never ventured further than that! |
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I’m guessing the 1.6 has an English axle whilst the V6 ones had an Atlas. I have the Atlas axle |
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I've fit three LSDs to diffs, one went well, one was untested but seemed ok, and the last (actually the first) not so much. The technique I used was to fit the diff with the shims in the same location and check the tooth contact using engineer's blue. There's guides online for the mesh pattern you want to see. Then shift around the shims until the mesh pattern looks like it should. I'm not sure on how to check the amount of preload on the bearings though, but others might chime in. The issue with the first diff is I didn't know any of that and just bolted it in with the shims in the stock position. Cue a whining diff and unhappy gears. The second I did, but was untested when I sold it. I'm fairly certain it would have been ok, but I would have liked to have tested it to ease my conscience. The third was in the X1/9 gearbox and has a different method for shimming which makes it easier to swap. Oh, and I've done a bit of research on these Blackline diffs. There's a lot of misinformation out there about them. They're made in China (hence the misinformation). The material specs are good, as is the basic design. The chap looking at them was a gear design engineer for a living and mentioned that he didn't spot anything that's particularly different from a similar quaife unit he had in the basic specifications. What he did say was that the finishing wasn't quite as good, specifically deburring of some of the machined sections. He took his diff apart to clean up some of these edges and found that the bits inside where the gears turned were fine, but as he was a bit of a perfectionist he wanted to clean up the other bits with a file as well. They specify a fluid change after a certain number of miles while Quaife doesn't, which he thinks is due to Quaife doing a bedding-in procedure in the factory whereas these guys are getting the customer to do the bedding in (and not charging them as much because of that). He was more than happy with that compromise, but it depends how OCD you are I suppose, and how likely you are to remember to change the oil after X thousand miles Good to read! I've got no problem bedding it in myself - it's much cheaper than the alternative. I'll have to read up on the whole shimming thing as I'd imagine it'd be expensive to get it fitted by someone? |
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Fitting an LSDHARDCORE
@hardcore
Club Retro Rides Member 190
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It's possible, but very likely not. V6 Capris had an Atlas axle, and most non-V6 Capris had an English axle. Easy to tell though - Atlas axles have a bolt on rear cover plate, whereas on English axles the diff bolts into the front of the case. If you're still unsure post pics of your axle & I'll tell you straight away which it is. Yeah I've definitely got the Atlas axle with the rear cover. I've replaced the cover, gaskets and oil a few times but I've never ventured further than that! You're golden then! A 1.6 Capri with an Atlas is pretty unusual (which is why I said "possible, but very likely not") - just the above advice re, shimming etc to take care of then also worth checking what ratios they offer, as a 1.6 is probably going to want something shorter than a V6 to not feel like a pig. |
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Yeah I've definitely got the Atlas axle with the rear cover. I've replaced the cover, gaskets and oil a few times but I've never ventured further than that! You're golden then! A 1.6 Capri with an Atlas is pretty unusual (which is why I said "possible, but very likely not") - just the above advice re, shimming etc to take care of then also worth checking what ratios they offer, as a 1.6 is probably going to want something shorter than a V6 to not feel like a pig. I spoke to them and they said I'd keep my current ratio if I fitted it, which I want to do as it is the 3.77:1 which helps with acceleration. Off to research! |
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Are you sure it's an Atlas and not a Koln?
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Last Edit: Jun 10, 2021 7:21:38 GMT by crockpot
Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-(
2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap
V8 Humber Hawk
1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD
1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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Jun 10, 2021 10:24:13 GMT
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If its a copy of a Quaife diff is that a torque biasing one then rather than a proper plate diff?
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Jun 11, 2021 12:02:04 GMT
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If its a copy of a Quaife diff is that a torque biasing one then rather than a proper plate diff? It's a torque biasing one. Is that a disadvantage? |
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Jun 11, 2021 12:02:27 GMT
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Are you sure it's an Atlas and not a Koln? It's an Atlas one |
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Jun 11, 2021 13:18:14 GMT
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With an Atlas axle to shim it properly you have to remove the side bearings with a press/pullers to change the shims. This could take a few goes. The bearing retainers are not wound in and out to adjust like on the English axle. Some use a dummy bearing that has been machined out so it slides on and off to gat the right shimming and then fit the actual bearing. When I had a Gripper LSD fitted to mine I just paid someone £80 to ensure it was done right.
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Jun 11, 2021 15:34:27 GMT
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If its a copy of a Quaife diff is that a torque biasing one then rather than a proper plate diff? It's a torque biasing one. Is that a disadvantage? Its different, depends what you are using the car for to if its better to have a plate diff or if the torque biasing will be fine. For road use i know people who love the Quaife type ones, and its a huge improvement over the standard open diff. But if you lift a wheel it just spins that wheel, it needs both wheels in contact to work from what i understand. A plate diff (Like the Gripper ones) doesn't have that issue so is prefered by lots of people. Especially if driving on loose/rough surfaces, or in a car that lifts a wheel. Personally i run a plate diff in my road car, and it will quite happily leave 2 black lines when provoked (on private land obviously)
Its a little noisy when going very slowly and turning as the plates skip against each other, but i'm running a 3J diff which is louder than the Gripper in my other car.
The quaife is apparently silent in operation.
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